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Custom Wheels from Colorado Cyclist

Old 03-15-19, 01:17 PM
  #26  
sooni
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Presuming any of the tension readings are accurate--they point to a bad batch of rims....because the R90SL is a nice rim and has a great record as such.

The DS is sky high and uneven....but the NDS is barely acceptable. Makes me wonder if when the wheel was tensioned they found that with the DS at spec the NDS was way too low, so compensated by jacking the tension up ridiculously....and all the variance is due to the rim starting to fail.
I am not sure how I could go wrong with the readings going over them multiple times with a calibrated tensionmeter, but I sincerely hope that is not the case. However, regardless of the calibration, that would not account for the variance.

Brass nipples and 32 spokes should be easy to work with. My wheels are on the very low end of the spectrum of what they offer price wise for custom builds so perhaps it was given less attention.

Once I quoted Easton's specs from their website they offered to send me a return label so they could take a look.Though I have concern that the wheel is already compromised.

Really appreciate all the insight.
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Old 03-15-19, 01:43 PM
  #27  
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"Presuming any of the tension readings are accurate--they point to a bad batch of rims"

This is the first thought I had as I have built with bad rims and the meandering spoke tension is the outcome. Return to sender.
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Old 03-15-19, 02:35 PM
  #28  
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I bought a rear wheel from CC a year ago December. HED Belgium rim, DT350 straight pull hub, 28 spokes. I don't have a tension gauge, but when I first got the wheel I plucked each spoke and the tension sounded pretty uniform on each side and it was true both ways. I've got maybe 5,000 miles on it now, I've not touched the wheel in any way and it is still perfectly true. So far so good.

Glad to hear they are willing to get it back to evaluate.
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Old 03-15-19, 02:48 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by sooni View Post
I am not sure how I could go wrong with the readings going over them multiple times with a calibrated tensionmeter, but I sincerely hope that is not the case. However, regardless of the calibration, that would not account for the variance.

Brass nipples and 32 spokes should be easy to work with. My wheels are on the very low end of the spectrum of what they offer price wise for custom builds so perhaps it was given less attention.

Once I quoted Easton's specs from their website they offered to send me a return label so they could take a look.Though I have concern that the wheel is already compromised.

Really appreciate all the insight.
How is dish? that may explain the DS/NDS difference. and you didn't have the tire mounted while measuring by any chance?

The price between less and more expensive wheels should be the components, not the workmanship. the whole point of a hand-wheel built is the better workmanship. Don't make excuses for them, they just didn't give you a great wheel... either machine built or no attention paid. Or the rim was crap.
BTW, on my bicycles the OEM wheels had pretty even tension and were very true, so a machine can build them better than what they gave you.

If they remain to be a$$es about this, I'd just loosen all the spokes and start over truing and tensioning.

For the future I recommend you built your own wheels. I can't imagine that would be more expensive and you get better results (and satisfaction!).
I recommend this book for $12
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Old 03-15-19, 03:01 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Presuming any of the tension readings are accurate--they point to a bad batch of rims....because the R90SL is a nice rim and has a great record as such.

The DS is sky high and uneven....but the NDS is barely acceptable. Makes me wonder if when the wheel was tensioned they found that with the DS at spec the NDS was way too low, so compensated by jacking the tension up ridiculously....and all the variance is due to the rim starting to fail.
I think the "chasing the buckles in an overtensioned rim" theory has some merit. I'm skeptical that a modern $100+ rim would need tensions like 94-53-72-107-44 out of the box, though. Heck, most of the wheels I've built were on used rims that had had plenty of opportunity to get wiggly under other people's riding, and could still get them evened out pretty well.
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Old 03-15-19, 03:37 PM
  #31  
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HerrKaLeun;20839496]How is dish? that may explain the DS/NDS difference. and you didn't have the tire mounted while measuring by any chance?
Dish is perfect (have a tool). Round and true as well. Have not touched the wheels, tires were not mounted of course.

The price between less and more expensive wheels should be the components, not the workmanship. the whole point of a hand-wheel built is the better workmanship. Don't make excuses for them, they just didn't give you a great wheel... either machine built or no attention paid. Or the rim was crap.BTW, on my bicycles the OEM wheels had pretty even tension and were very true, so a machine can build them better than what they gave you.
Agreed, that is why I bought them. I wanted something reliable and easy to work with for when I bring the bike overseas (velcro touring). I figured something like this that was built properly fits the bill. I actually sold off some DT Swiss wheels before I bought these which appears to have been a mistake.

If they remain to be a$$es about this, I'd just loosen all the spokes and start over truing and tensioning.
Is it possible that some damage has already been done, considering the extreme tension? I have two OEM wheelsets on my bikes, both 20 spoke rear with much lower readings, (one set of Easton EC90sl which are already specced with very high tension on the R DS).
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Old 03-15-19, 03:46 PM
  #32  
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I'm not sure that some NDS variance is all that big of a deal, as long as the spokes are all tensioned adequately. Depending on the rim, sometimes the NDS tensions just end up needing to be uneven to get the wheel true enough. You can make NDS tensions more even by unevenly dropping DS tensions sometimes, but then everything has to be lower tension, which isn't good.

Assuming you took the measurements accurately, though, your wheels seem all out of whack. The tension numbers look bad in pretty much every way: besides being quite uneven on both sides, it simultaneously has excessive DS tensions and an NDS spoke that's all the way down at 44kgf!
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Old 03-15-19, 04:00 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
I'm not sure that some NDS variance is all that big of a deal, as long as the spokes are all tensioned adequately. Depending on the rim, sometimes the NDS tensions just end up needing to be uneven to get the wheel true enough. You can make NDS tensions more even by unevenly dropping DS tensions sometimes, but then everything has to be lower tension, which isn't good.

Assuming you took the measurements accurately, though, your wheels seem all out of whack. The tension numbers look bad in pretty much every way: besides being quite uneven on both sides, it simultaneously has excessive DS tensions and an NDS spoke that's all the way down at 44kgf!
Ya the variance was my first concern, but more concerning to me now is the excessive tension on both the front and rear, which I believe was completely overlooked and/or sacrificed to get them dished and true. Although, one of the spokes on the R DS definitely failed the ping test and would drive me nuts regardless.

I didn't expect them to be perfect, and was ready to work on them a little bit, but this is too much.
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Old 03-15-19, 07:43 PM
  #34  
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If the hubs are 11 speed then the DS spokes need a little more tension because of the over all offset of the drive side flange. This brings the NDS to a better tension. 120 Kg on the DS is reasonable, but what you are showing is not. It's too high.
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Old 03-16-19, 04:42 AM
  #35  
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At the risk of asking a silly question, is the hub on the rear the correct one for the application? By that, I'm talking about spacing, and will use a personal anecdote as an example. I adapted a 135 OLD hub and rear wheel down to about 128 OLD spacing by removing some spacers on the NDS and then re-dishing the wheel. The rim was crazy out of true when I got it (free), but not bent. I had nothing to lose but time, and everything to gain, so I tried it. I got the wheel nearly exactly true, and I got it dished, but I imagine my tension readings would look a lot like yours, @sooni. The DS is very high, the NDS is pretty low, and they're not consistent radially. To bring the rim back to true, some regions have more tension than others. It doesn't look like they were trying to pull one part of the rim back in line, but the disparity in tension between the NDS and the DS really is notable.

The wheel I mentioned is probably at least as bad as yours, but it's because I'm compensating for the wrong hub for the specific application, making a free wheel work where I needed it to. I wonder if something's strange or offset with the hub in your wheel, and the spoke tensions are compensating for something.
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Old 03-16-19, 06:07 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by hokiefyd View Post
At the risk of asking a silly question, is the hub on the rear the correct one for the application? By that, I'm talking about spacing, and will use a personal anecdote as an example. I adapted a 135 OLD hub and rear wheel down to about 128 OLD spacing by removing some spacers on the NDS and then re-dishing the wheel. The rim was crazy out of true when I got it (free), but not bent. I had nothing to lose but time, and everything to gain, so I tried it. I got the wheel nearly exactly true, and I got it dished, but I imagine my tension readings would look a lot like yours, @sooni. The DS is very high, the NDS is pretty low, and they're not consistent radially. To bring the rim back to true, some regions have more tension than others. It doesn't look like they were trying to pull one part of the rim back in line, but the disparity in tension between the NDS and the DS really is notable.

The wheel I mentioned is probably at least as bad as yours, but it's because I'm compensating for the wrong hub for the specific application, making a free wheel work where I needed it to. I wonder if something's strange or offset with the hub in your wheel, and the spoke tensions are compensating for something.
As far as I know the r90SL and Ultegra 6800 Hub is compatible as it is widely offered. There are three issues with the build. 1)The unacceptable variance 2)the offset between the R NDS/ DS and 3) the tension going way higher than spec.

I have never built a wheel from scratch. I have taken apart wheels and put them back together,and have had things evenly tensioned true round dished etc. I am very curious to see what they respond with. As my first email to them which showed the readings very clearly were not an issue! When asked again if the wheelbuilder backs it up, the customer service agent confirmed. Was literally told that my wheel was built to manufacturer's specifications. When I followed up showing Easton's specs for the rims they told me to send it back. Needless to say, I have trust issues with this company now, and am very weary about having them fix this botched wheel and send it back to me.
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Old 03-16-19, 06:14 AM
  #37  
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If the rim is far enough out of round, there is really no way to fix it other than replacing the rim. I would not risk that being the case, and try to return the wheel now, while it's unridden and that's still an option. Realistically though, I'd probably monkey around a bit with it first, and see if i could fix it myself.

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Old 03-16-19, 07:15 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
If the rim is far enough out of round, there is really no way to fix it other than replacing the rim. I would not risk that being the case, and try to return the wheel now, while it's unridden and that's still an option. Realistically though, I'd probably monkey around a bit with it first, and see if i could fix it myself.
I am not touching it. It is going back exactly how I received it, that would have been plan B.
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Old 03-16-19, 07:18 AM
  #39  
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How are they gonna know you messed with it?
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Old 03-16-19, 08:02 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
How are they gonna know you messed with it?
I don't see the point in messing with it. It is going back either way.
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Old 03-16-19, 08:13 AM
  #41  
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Yeah, I think that's the best thing to do, they might have used some sort of spoke prep on the wheels.
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Old 03-16-19, 10:16 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
How are they gonna know you messed with it?
Well...the first thing they'd do--given the consumer complaints--is verify the spoke tension readings he already provided them....kind of a give away you messed with it.
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Old 03-16-19, 10:17 AM
  #43  
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A few years ago I had a wheel trued t a local bike shop. The wheel was true but the spoke tension was all over the place by quite a bit. Obviously some spokes in this situation would do most of the work while others did little to hold the wheel true. I did not bother complaning to the bike shop. I just went ahead and trued it on my own at no cost except a bit of time. If you are fortunate to have a bike shop locally that is completely reliable in curing whatever problem you may have, lavish them with a six pack at Thanksgiving, St Patty's day, St Valentines day and at various times throughout the year.
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Old 03-16-19, 10:21 AM
  #44  
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Send the front back too
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Old 03-16-19, 02:41 PM
  #45  
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If my math is right, the average tensions on that back wheel come out to 72.93 kgf and 162.87 kgf, for a ratio of about 0.448:1. Built within the rim's max tension spec, that would come out to 54.6 kgf and 122 kgf. So I still believe this could have been a perfectly good wheel with the parts used.
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Old 03-17-19, 02:47 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
If my math is right, the average tensions on that back wheel come out to 72.93 kgf and 162.87 kgf, for a ratio of about 0.448:1. Built within the rim's max tension spec, that would come out to 54.6 kgf and 122 kgf. So I still believe this could have been a perfectly good wheel with the parts used.
Interesting. Perhaps someone was a bit trigger happy with the power drill before doing the fine tuning to get it nice and true.
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Old 03-17-19, 04:22 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
I would keep contacting them, and have them pay the return shipping plus refund your money.

I realize it's a custom hand build, but these numbers look like a machine built them.
I was wondering if anyone ever measured a good factory wheel. Are they really that bad? From my experience factory wheels are fine and I see no particular need for custom wheel except for custom applications?
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Old 03-18-19, 08:19 AM
  #48  
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Yes, I have bought and measure several sets of wheels. Tension very high and uneven on the same side. Like 105-170 on the rear drive side....(Alex rims)
Mavic open pro/ultegra set. 130-165 on the rear drive side..... (which may account for the rumored Open pros pulling out eyelets)
SunRingle CR18/Deore set from REI. Same deal. All true wheels but tension all over the place.
In all cases I backed them all down and started over.
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Old 03-18-19, 08:43 AM
  #49  
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I have been building my own wheels fo ~20 years.
But I do have one rarely-ridden bike which still has store-purchased wheels from about 20 years back.
IIRC I got them on sale from either Nashbar or Performance, and had never touched them.
On a whim a year ago while overhauling it, I put the wheels on the truing stand and checked the tension.
To my astonishment, the tension was excellent, and only 4 spokes on the rear wheel needed a very slight adjustment for truing.
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Old 03-18-19, 02:40 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
Yes, I have bought and measure several sets of wheels. Tension very high and uneven on the same side. Like 105-170 on the rear drive side....(Alex rims)
Mavic open pro/ultegra set. 130-165 on the rear drive side..... (which may account for the rumored Open pros pulling out eyelets)
SunRingle CR18/Deore set from REI. Same deal. All true wheels but tension all over the place.
In all cases I backed them all down and started over.
I haven't had issues with 4 sets of wheels, 2 Eastons', 1 DT Swiss and 1 Campagnolo.

But I wonder, for the wheels I showed in the thread, could tension that high actually compromise the integrity of wheels if they have yet to be ridden? Is it possible that damage has been done to the spokes, nipples or rim?

Last edited by sooni; 03-18-19 at 05:40 PM.
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