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Need Strong Nipples! (no pun int)

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Need Strong Nipples! (no pun int)

Old 03-20-19, 11:17 AM
  #1  
bobin
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Need Strong Nipples! (no pun int)

So I ordered a batch of crappy DT Swiss nips for a build without reading the amazon reviews. Yep, once I got the tension going on my Hed C2/DT Comp Spokes - a couple of the nips stripped, the black stripped off almost immediately. The metal seems too soft. Now I have to take apart the whole thing again! UGH. Recommend me some kick-a nips!
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Old 03-20-19, 11:34 AM
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Use a real spoke wrench, not a screw driver.
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Old 03-20-19, 11:41 AM
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Odd, brass nipples are usually considered good.

How long are your spokes?

On the rear (multi-speed), one usually does longer spokes on the right, and shorter (2mm shorter?) on the left.

Length of the spoke should extend 100% though the nipple, and up to the top of the groove when tightened, at least for double wall rims.

I'm not seeing enlarged photos, but the spokes appear too short in that review you linked.
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Old 03-20-19, 11:50 AM
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I haven't bought black brass nipples. Any black nipple I've used was anodized aluminum.

There are methods of achieving black chrome.
https://www.bendplating.com/black-chrome-vs-black-pvd/
Black Chrome Plating | Black Chrome Plating Suppliers | Metal Plating Company | Arlington Plating Company

However, I wonder if the nipples you got were simply painted.
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Old 03-20-19, 11:56 AM
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Well, to be fair, the Amazon guy was a dumbass. The screwdriver flats are only for getting the nipple threaded on most of the way. They are NOT for final tensioning.
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Old 03-20-19, 01:24 PM
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Get one of these: https://www.wheelfanatyk.com/store/pk-lie-spoke-wrench/
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Old 03-20-19, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I haven't bought black brass nipples. Any black nipple I've used was anodized aluminum.

There are methods of achieving black chrome.
https://www.bendplating.com/black-chrome-vs-black-pvd/
Black Chrome Plating | Black Chrome Plating Suppliers | Metal Plating Company | Arlington Plating Company

However, I wonder if the nipples you got were simply painted.
I've built up a couple of wheels with black brass nipples. DT even. Specifically these since I didn't want the alloy ones that came with the DT rims. I don't know how they achieved the black color, but I assume it was PVD or something.

Yeah, screwdrivers used in the flats. I got a used bike that I wanted to change the hub on, but keep the spokes and nipples. The spoke heads were destroyed at the flats. I assume the machine building the wheels was a fault there.

edit: my used bike's spoke heads were even worse than in the Amazon review. Yeah, that reviewer wasn't using a spoke wrench- that tool is only for getting the nipples started.

Last edited by Geekage; 03-20-19 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 03-20-19, 03:33 PM
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Black Brass Nipples.

Hmm... good name for a punk band?
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Old 03-20-19, 03:48 PM
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One can buy brass hex head nipples.

For example Sapim Brand which does also come in black.

https://www.jejamescycles.com/sapim-...r-tmm8539.html



Then it would be a matter of finding a socket or nut driver that would fit into the spoke holes and fit the nipples.

Some brands also have a square drive, or reverse torx drive which might play better with the spoke holes in double walled rims.



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Old 03-20-19, 03:57 PM
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Do you have a wheel building machine? I believe that's what those above are for, .... .in double wall rims..

I just use Brass. nips ,

they're strong enough to over tighten & crack your rim.. dont need more than that ...
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Old 03-21-19, 06:07 PM
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I've used DT nickel-plated brass nipples for 40 years and never had stripped threads. Any problem I've had was my fault: I have rounded a few of them (using wrong spoke wrench) and had a few pop off when tensioning (Don't use 14g nipples for 15g spokes),

One star reviews on Amazon are entertaining. Kinda like preliminary qualification for competing for the Darwin award.
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Old 04-02-19, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoopdriver View Post
Don't use 14g nipples for 15g spokes),.
maybe I ordered wrong nips? I need nips for DT Comp spokes!
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Old 04-02-19, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bobin View Post
maybe I ordered wrong nips? I need nips for DT Comp spokes!
Which ones? DT Comps come in both 2.0/1.8/2.0 and 1.8/1.6/1.8.
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Old 04-02-19, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by davidad View Post
That is a much better configuration for a spoke wrench than the normal 3 sided version. Alternatively, I'd suggest Wheel Fanantyk splined nipples over any square nipple. Much easier to work with, will take higher tension and won't round out.
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Old 04-03-19, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post


Which ones? DT Comps come in both 2.0/1.8/2.0 and 1.8/1.6/1.8.
Right! Darwin. 2.0/1.8/2.0 I believe.
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Old 04-04-19, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by velojym View Post
Black Brass Nipples.

Hmm... good name for a punk band?
Best post in the whole thread.
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Old 04-04-19, 05:09 PM
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Old 04-05-19, 05:23 AM
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great post thanks
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Old 04-06-19, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
On the rear (multi-speed), one usually does longer spokes on the right, and shorter (2mm shorter?) on the left.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, this is backwards, right? To use non-ambiguous terminology, wouldn't a dished rear wheel use shorter spokes on the drive side ("right") and longer spokes on the non-drive side ("left")?
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Old 04-06-19, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by hokiefyd View Post
Unless I'm misunderstanding, this is backwards, right? To use non-ambiguous terminology, wouldn't a dished rear wheel use shorter spokes on the drive side ("right") and longer spokes on the non-drive side ("left")?
Right and left are ambiguous and depend on what angle you are viewing the bike. Drive Side and non-Drive side are non-ambiguous and should be used. Yes, you are correct. Dished wheels will usually have shorter spokes on the drive side; however there may be some really odd configuration (e.g. shaft drive) where that may not be the case.
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Old 04-06-19, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoopdriver View Post
Right and left are ambiguous and depend on what angle you are viewing the bike. Drive Side and non-Drive side are non-ambiguous and should be used. Yes, you are correct. Dished wheels will usually have shorter spokes on the drive side; however there may be some really odd configuration (e.g. shaft drive) where that may not be the case.
I’ll have to disagree. Bikes are directional with a defined front/rear and right/left. That makes right and left unambiguous. By convention, we put the drive side on the right on all bikes.

As for any variants away from using shorter spokes on the right side of the wheel, they are rare enough as to be nonexistent.
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Old 04-06-19, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post


I’ll have to disagree. Bikes are directional with a defined front/rear and right/left. That makes right and left unambiguous. By convention, we put the drive side on the right on all bikes.

As for any variants away from using shorter spokes on the right side of the wheel, they are rare enough as to be nonexistent.
Yes, bikes are directional and most would assume that right and left are defined by a viewer facing in the direction that bikes travel; however this is still an assumption and thus injects ambiguity. Using DS and NDS in the context of the posed question makes no assumptions and therefore is clearly unambiguous. Also, there are more left side drive bikes than you may imagine, so DS and NDS eliminate any confusion.

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Old 04-07-19, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoopdriver View Post
Yes, bikes are directional and most would assume that right and left are defined by a viewer facing in the direction that bikes travel; however this is still an assumption and thus injects ambiguity. Using DS and NDS in the context of the posed question makes no assumptions and therefore is clearly unambiguous. Also, there are more left side drive bikes than you may imagine, so DS and NDS eliminate any confusion.
You are splitting hairs here. The number of bikes like the one above are vanishingly small. There may be a few specialized bikes that have left hand drive like the above but they are so few that people won’t encounter them in just about any situation. In the case of the bike above, you’d have to point out that it has the drivetrain on the left side because it is a rarity.

But there would be no need to discuss shorter spokes in the that case above for a couple of reasons. First, the bike has only a trivially dished wheel since it is a track bike. Different spoke lengths aren’t necessary for a single speed wheel. Second, does the wheel on that bike even have spokes? I can’t tell if the wheel is a cover or not.

My point is still valid. There is no ambiguity with using “right” and “left” sides of bicycles.
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Old 04-07-19, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
My point is still valid. There is a bit of ambiguity with using “right” and “left” sides of bicycles, but in the context presented, this ambiguity is eliminated by using DS and NDS.
Fixed it for you.

When sailing we use port and starboard to eliminate the ambiguity of right and left. Port and starboard are linked by definition to the orientation of the vessel while left and right are relative to the orientation of the viewer. Telling a crew member to move toward starboard will assure the desired result regardless of which direction he or she is facing.

Yes you would be correct that most people (including me) will, under most circumstances, understand what you mean by the right side of a bike. Your argument seems to be that "all" people, under "all" circumstances, will understand and that simply is not completely reliable. It's not splitting hairs when commenting on the difference between 95% reliable vs. 100%.
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Old 04-08-19, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoopdriver View Post
I’ll just muddy the waters a bit more. There, I “fixed” your post for you. Two can play this game.
When sailing we use port and starboard to eliminate the ambiguity of right and left. Port and starboard are linked by definition to the orientation of the vessel while left and right are relative to the orientation of the viewer. Telling a crew member to move toward starboard will assure the desired result regardless of which direction he or she is facing.
You also refer to the bow and stern or front and rear. It doesn’t matter what you call the left or right side of a boat or a bike or a car because they are all directional. They all have a left and right side that is unambiguous without any other designation. “Port” and “starboard” are just conventions used like putting the drive side on the right for bicycles.

Yes you would be correct that most people (including me) will, under most circumstances, understand what you mean by the right side of a bike. Your argument seems to be that "all" people, under "all" circumstances, will understand and that simply is not completely reliable. It's not splitting hairs when commenting on the difference between 95% reliable vs. 100%.
If 5% of bicycles had left hand drives you might have a point. But the number of bicycles with left hand drives is vanishingly small. I work at my local co-op and see roughly 1500 bikes per year. Over the 10 years I’ve volunteered there, I’ve put hands on 15,000 bicycles. At a 5% rate, I should have seen 750 bicycles with left hand drives or 7.5 per year. I have yet to see a single left hand drive. Until you posted the above picture, I didn’t even know that any were made. And that one is relatively new and, from what I can see in other photos of track events, a rarity.

I would put the rate of left hand drive bicycles that anyone might encounter at far less than 0.0000001% of bicycles. That’s low enough that I’m on very firm ground saying that “all” bicycles have right hand drive.
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