IGH Rebuilding
 

My visits to the bike coop this week revealed what appears to be an embarrassment of riches - 2 IGH with hub brakes that followed me home.

As a year-round cyclist in a region with 7 months of sub-optimal cycling weather each year, I have become enthusiastic about avoiding rim brakes for my all weather bikes. I have rebuilt Sturmey Archer AW and S5 hubs, and also Sachs Pentasport and Torpedo 3 hubs. So finding two internal gear hubs with hub brakes made me excited to rebuild the hubs and lace them into wheels, but I wanted to check with the experience of others with these two hubs before committing to these chores. It would also be a particular treat to have a wide range 5 speed that does not have the annoyance of a coaster brake that stops one from adjusting the pedal positioning.

1. Sturmey Archer X-RD5(W) - Sunrace-designed Sturmey Archer 5 speed (256% total gear range) with 70mm drum brake and matched DT shifter
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...128769ddb3.jpg
I believe this hub needs some attention as the hub parts seem to be only loosely fitted when I opened the hub shell (though the scrapes on the exterior are only cosmetic). I was not able to find more than an exploded parts diagram to guide me in a rebuild. Moreover, the hub was a gift, but I can return the shifter for sale at the bike co-op, if the hub cannot be made serviceable. If anyone can suggest any further guidance to the rebuild, I believe I would have the courage to proceed.

2. SRAM i-Motion 3 with coaster brake
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...741aa1b454.jpg
This hub appears to be in a working condition, so I just need to lace it into a wheel and then test with a friction shifter (which seems to work with other 3 speed IGHs I have made suffer). Any cautionary advice about poor experience with this type of hub would be welcome (other than I know they were recently recalled due to problems with the grease causing the brakes to no always behave, so I can rely on a front disc brake). If it passes a preliminary function test, I will probably rebuild it with fresh grease in the hope of long service, even if it only has 3 speeds and is cursed with a coaster brake.

Finally, any thoughts about drilling each of these hub shells to add an oil port to allow them to be run "wet"?

-Will

This video should give you a basic understanding of how the Sturmey Archer 5 speed works. It features the ball lock version of the hub which is the predecessor to the model you have there.


This video shows the design changes incorporated in the hub you have.
Note that these are not repair tutorials, but merely meant to show how they work.

Try searching here: HUBSTRIPPING

Here's a technical analysis of the Sturmey 5:

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=128331

The hubshell contains a drum brake. Don't fit an oil port. Use NLGI 00 grease on the internal gear mech as the factory did, and do the bearings and labyrinth seals with Sta-Lube blue marine grease.

I'm not sure what you mean by "hub parts only loosely fitted". Could you explain? It sounds like you may have removed the internal mechanism from the hub body, right? If so, it should be fairly easy to check for worn components like pawls and springs, although you will have to disassemble to check the gear selector key assembly. The hub internal consists of a lot of subassemblies that cannot be disassembled further and this makes it easy to strip down and put back together. Look for worn, chipped pawls; broken pawl springs. I've had trouble with weak C-Clips (HSL990 and especially HSL889). As stated above, relube the internal with NGLI 00 grease, but use regular bearing grease on the axle bearings.

Good luck.

This hub was designed to be used with its special iMotion 3 shifter, which has a different pull from the SRAM/Sachs T3 and DualDrive hubs (and I hardly need to add different from Shimano and Sturmey 3s).

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribshe...able-pull.html

Further, unlike Sturmey-Archer 3-speeds, the SRAM iMotion 3 is a low normal and there is no 'alignment'. You set the proprietary (cheapy, plasticy twist) shifter to barely be able to pull the hub into 3rd (high) gear and the shifter takes care of getting the internal mech of the hub properly and securely into gears 2 and 1 (low).

Disassembly of the iMotion 3 begins on page 36:
https://www.sram.com/sites/default/f...glish-reva.pdf

These are lovely, innovative little hubs, with all prime number tooth count gears and an asymmetric internal arrangement (9 plutoed planets!). The early models were manufactured in Germany before production was moved to Taiwan. They were discontinued two years ago. There is no known source for spare parts. It's fairly easy to 'un-coaster brake' them.

Bon chance drilling that SRAM hubshell, mon ami.

BTW, with a coaster you'll want to use a 'high temperature' grease.

So, to shift your iMotion 3 hub, you need an iMotion 3 shifter:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b88b35d2a4.png

These are listed as 'Discontinued' and/or 'Sold Out' everywhere online. Fun fact: the distance from the end of the housing to that little fork thingy that connects to the cable on the hub is fairly critical. To make sure this was correct, SRAM sold the shifter+cable+little fork thingy only as pre-built assemblies aaaaaaaand never published the distance to set the little fork thingy from the end of the cable housing. But, and it's a big but, they created a tool to set this distance:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ba3d673c39.png

Unfortunately, no living person has ever seen one of these tools.


I imagine two SRAM executives sitting in an office. One asks, "Our IGHs were technically superior to Shimano and Sturmey. Why didn't OEMs order them? Why didn't consumers like them?" The other executive shakes his head and shrugs.

Thanks for the replies all.

Dan: I have watched the 2 videos you posted when I was trying to better understand 5 speed hubs to rebuild the SA-S5-1 that I have, and I thank you for them (you helped me discover that it had been rebuilt before I received it and reassembled without lining-up the timing marks). However, they seem to describe more how the X-RD5(W) is unlike its ancestors than describe how it works or what to expect as one disassembles it. I am a little concerned that this hub may have been disassembled (it was not tightly threaded into the hub shell) and not successfully reassembled (because the internal parts are not closely held together inside). I will see what the hubstripping website has. My crawling on the intertubes has led me to have some concern that this orphan hub may not be as robust as the venerable AW and its contemporaries. I will try again to open it next week and perhaps video its current condition to see if others can offer guidance with better information.

As for the SRAM
I know I am going to have to McGyver the thing because I do not have the parts it was originally shipped with (and I am allergic to twist shifters). I am thinking that I will use a bent spoke to make a part to catch the end of the cable that comes out of the hub and link it to a standard gear cable. But I am thinking that like any 3 speed, there is only one critical position - 2nd gear. The extreme gears are at either fully relaxed cable or fully taught cable, so using a friction shifter one must gently discern at what angle 2nd gear if fully engaged and adjust cable length so that angle can be repeated. Did I miss something on this one?

I am aware that best practices are to use marine grease on bearings and barriers, and high temperature grease on coaster brake parts. Thanks for adding that information to this thread.

Once again, thanks to everyone for your ideas and support.

-Will

Well, nope, but of course unlike Sturmey and Shimano 3s, there is nothing on the outside of the hub to tell you when you are exactly (and not just nearly or sorta pretty close) lined up in 2nd.

The iMotion 3 is low normal. The shifter pulls 7.7mm from 1st to 2nd and another 6.1mm from 2nd to 3rd. I betcha a whiz like you won't have any trouble.

SRAM i-Motion 3:
Since all of the hubs I have rebuilt have been found at the bottom of a bin at the bike co-op, I never know if all of the parts are original or even compatible. Having the details regarding cable pull should make it easier to set up the friction shifter. My best experience was when I had the right side cable of my Pentasport set up with a Shimano RSX left brifter that worked perfectly, but that was a coincidence that I won't expect to repeat.

-Will

Yep, this is exactly what happens when the smaller C-Clip fails. Check for #11 in the parts diagram you linked to. I has probably slipped out of it's groove. If so, replace it with a new one.

Thanks Moe, I will keep that in mind when I start the disassembly. The state of the parts inside the hub shell is peculiar, as initially I have not be able to get the parts to nest together like I would expect. I am planning on a complete tear down with an eye to the exploded parts diagram and hopefully how to get it back together will be obvious.

As for parts: not that many people interested in IGH in my orbit, but I will see if I can find a replacement C-Clip. I think there may have been another of these same hubs (but with the brake shoes and mechanism missing) in the Bike co-op bin, which may be able to supply some parts. I expect I could order some parts from Aaron's in Seattle, but that delays things a week or two.

-Will

The discussion here was particularly helpful, and has led me to conclude that the best plan for the Sturmey Archer X-RD5(W) hub is to use the shell and the drum brake with an old Sturmey Archer AW hub. The internal dimensions are as close to identical as I can measure so the AW internals will fit, so long as I can find one with a long axle to extend through the drum brake and allow an axle nut. While I will lose the 256% range of the 5 speed hub, but I will also avoid the troublesome shifter and what appears to be inevitable failure of these hubs (and the lack of parts in the future). I also get a robust IGH with a hub brake that allows the pedal position to be adjusted. I can return the shifter and cut my loses. Once I source a long-axle AW hub I will update on my progress.

This means that the SRAM i-Motion 3 will be used in the next wheel I will be lacing. Exciting times.

-Will

I would not give up on the 5 speed hub yet. They are not inherently unreliable, although like any hub you will have to "fix" it from time to time. I have over 20,000 miles on my X-RD5(W) and I have only had to open it up for repair 3 times. The first time was to replace the pawls on the ball ring, which had chipped faces. This problem was entirely my doing because of aggressive shifting under load. The other 2 times were due to the small external retaining ring coming adrift. After the second S-A part failed, I replaced it with a generic clip I bought on Amazon and have not had a recurrence. I did replace the drive side bearing cone once as a maintenance thing, but that's normal wear and tear. Most of the parts that will need to be replaced are shared with other hubs so I wouldn't worry much about future availability.

My opinions of the X-RD5 (W):

Positives - 1)Drum brakes are great for all weather use. The shoes look like they will never wear out. I did have a sticky front brake (I was wondering why my commuting times were longer than they should have been), but a small bit of high-temp grease sorted that out. 2) Shifting is generally good, but I found it to be a bit sensitive to get right at first. After a while you get a feel for whether the cable is too tight or loose. Once you get it dialed in, all is good until you have to take the wheel off. I have a thumb shifter similar to your DT shifter. I think the indexing works great. 3) Disassembly and re-assembly are relatively easy and intuitive. I've taken pictures of the process and would be glad to upload.

Negatives (not too bad)- 1) I found myself rarely using gears 1 and 5. I would have been completely happy with a 3 speed hub. I would have been even more happy if the 5 speed ratio was not so wide. I had a single speed hub on this bike previously so more gears was a luxury. If you are moving from a multi-speed bike down to a 5 speed you will have a different experience. 2) The hub is pretty heavy so with loaded panniers it's a surprise to folks who try to lift. I think my steel framed bike (Raleigh Super Course) weighed about 30 pounds bare. 3) Flats are a real pain. If you remove the wheel, you have to not only disconnect the shift cable, but also unbolt the brake torque arm. Disconnecting the shift cable means that you will have to do a reindexing adjustment. Most of the time I would repair a flat with the wheel on the bike pulling out the tube until I found the leak. I switched to Schwalbe Marathon Plusses to avoid having to mess with flats - so far so good; however I probably just jinxed myself.


On the other hand:

Not a bad plan to replace the internals with a 3 speed. The axle length on the 5 speed hub is 177mm, I do know that the new Sunrace XRD3 hubs use the same length but I don't know if it would be compatible with the older AW hubs. It does use the same sort of keyed clutch type gear selection so perhaps it would work. It looks like the planet pinions are the same for the Sunrace and old AW hubs so that it promising.

Good luck whatever route you take. Let us know how it works out.