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New chain measures <0.0 elongation on Park Tools CC-2

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New chain measures <0.0 elongation on Park Tools CC-2

Old 05-29-19, 01:41 AM
  #1  
masi61
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New chain measures <0.0 elongation on Park Tools CC-2

So, I replaced the 9 speed chain on my Shimano Dura Ace 7703/Ultegra 6603 3x9 road bike last week with a Taya Nove-91 gold anodized chain. This is to go with a 2nd chain that I plan to alternately use, a SRAM PC-991. Both are Shimano 9 speed compatible.

My new Taya chain has been skipping on the cassette whenever under torque. This has been evident with any amount of out of the saddle riding or applying initial torque when first starting out at a dead stop such as from a traffic light. Very unnerving not to mention confidence busting since I’m now babying my bike up even gradual hills to avoid this situation.

The cassette was a 6500 Shimano Ultegra 9 speed 12-23 (used for nearly 10,000 miles). I swapped it out for a SRAM 9 speed 12-23 (new)to see if that would make a difference. They both skipped in a similar fashion which kind of rules out the cassette as a culprit in my mind.

I checked the new Taya Nove-91 nine speed chain with my Park Tools CC-2 chain checker and it just barely pops onto the space on the interior of the rollers. It is tight and reads “0.0” stretch. I say actually it is less than 0.0 on the Park Tools CC-2 since it does not readily pop on like it should.

Now I have heard where folks say the Park Tools CC-2 is not reliable and that you should check using a precision 12” rule. I may due this for cross reference. In defense of the Park Tool, I have generally been able to diagnose a chain that is nearing the end of its useful life using this tool.

So after 3 fifty+ mile rides with some amount of slippage on my cassette, I was hoping the new chain would bed in so to speak. It might have happened to a slight extent, but I still had the unfortunate slippage at several critical junctures out in traffic. Potentially dangerous & a bit embarassing.

My LBS mechanic rider friend says I should give up on the chain and install a Campy Record 9 speed. Apparently these are the gold standard for longevity from what I’ve heard.

So, with all this being said, the new Taya actually shifts pretty well. I’m tempted to do a couple more of these low torque rides and then re-evaluate if it is stretching at all on the Park Tools CC-2 and/or if my number of slippage episodes are becoming fewer.

So, I was wondering if you all could share your experiences with a new chain that did not quite mesh up due to maybe having too tight of tolerances and thus being too quick to ride out of the cassette gullies.

The side to side lateral flex of this new chain is actually a bit on the loose side BTW if this matters.

Thanks for any any feedback provided.

Last edited by masi61; 05-29-19 at 01:47 AM.
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Old 05-29-19, 02:46 AM
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Did you replace the cassette aswell?
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Old 05-29-19, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Kovkov View Post
Did you replace the cassette aswell?
yes, it is a new cassette. The skipping was a bit worse when I put the new cassett on. Then I put a new rear cable housing loop that was longer and a new, stainless burnished inner wire. I was concerned that the older, shorter one was not long enough and was therefore pushing my Ultegra 6500 GS rear derailleur forward and I postulated that this had something to do with why the slippage was only occurring in the lowest 4 cogs (the largest ones) in the rear. I also played with the “B” adjusting screw, turning it clockwise a few turns in order to pull the upper cage back a little. I may return it to being more “close ratio” tight since my LBS mechanic rider friend said I want more cog engagement, not less. It has gotten better but is not fully cured..
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Old 05-29-19, 04:01 AM
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Your LBS mechanic friend should have been able to figure out that your freehub is probably the thing that is skipping.
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Old 05-29-19, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by dsaul View Post
Your LBS mechanic friend should have been able to figure out that your freehub is probably the thing that is skipping.
This is a Dura Ace 7700 with the titanium freehub body. The lockring is torqued to 40n/m and the mechanism seems tight. I apply a light coating of grease to the spline. When I installed the HG compatible SRAM cassette, I made sure to line it up with the skinny spline on the freehub body. Slippage of the freehub pawls has crossed my mind. I even asked my LBS mechanic friend if this could be it and he was rather confident that if my current Taya chain didn’t start behaving soon, that my next action is to replace the chain with one known to work well, his recommendation being a Campy Record 9 speed.

Funny thing, another dude I ride with who runs a rival LBS was the one who suggested the longer housing loop in the rear - he suggested always running with Shimano chains.

Meanwhile, I remain a bit of an iconoclast, chosing to do my own mechanic work. I have suffered sometimes from questionable setups that linger on a little to long. Usually I am able to get it right by doing the very process I am doing now - seeking advice here and from my mechanic friends.

Last edited by masi61; 05-29-19 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 05-29-19, 04:41 AM
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Seems as if trying your SRAM chain (or any other chain) would help isolate the culprit.
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Old 05-29-19, 05:59 AM
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Toss the chain checker into the trash where it belongs and measure chains with a good steel rule. My belief is that chain checkers exist to help sell unneeded chains.
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Old 05-29-19, 06:21 AM
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I would put on a reliably good chain, such as anything by Shimano or SRAM. Then see if you still have a problem.
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Old 05-29-19, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
I would put on a reliably good chain, such as anything by Shimano or SRAM. Then see if you still have a problem.

+1 this.....I mean, is there some reason you went with a Taya chain (rather than a Shimano)? ...am I missing something?
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Old 05-29-19, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by PickleRick View Post
+1 this.....I mean, is there some reason you went with a Taya chain (rather than a Shimano)? ...am I missing something?
Mainly because I already bought this chain & was hoping to get some use out of it.
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Old 05-29-19, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
This is a Dura Ace 7700 with the titanium freehub body. The lockring is torqued to 40n/m and the mechanism seems tight. I apply a light coating of grease to the spline. When I installed the HG compatible SRAM cassette, I made sure to line it up with the skinny spline on the freehub body. Slippage of the freehub pawls has crossed my mind. I even asked my LBS mechanic friend if this could be it and he was rather confident that if my current Taya chain didn’t start behaving soon, that my next action is to replace the chain with one known to work well, his recommendation being a Campy Record 9 speed.

Funny thing, another dude I ride with who runs a rival LBS was the one who suggested the longer housing loop in the rear - he suggested always running with Shimano chains.

Meanwhile, I remain a bit of an iconoclast, chosing to do my own mechanic work. I have suffered sometimes from questionable setups that linger on a little to long. Usually I am able to get it right by doing the very process I am doing now - seeking advice here and from my mechanic friends.
I believe that dsaul is referencing the freehub body's ratchet, not some cog/spline/locknut thing. The next test is a different wheel with your cassette, to eliminate one item at a time. Andy
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Old 05-29-19, 08:47 AM
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I think what dsaul and AndrewRStewart suggested is definitely worth checking out. The freehub body may just need a flush and re-lube to cure the problem. How many miles on the freehub body? Has it ever been flushed and lubed before?
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Old 05-29-19, 09:13 AM
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Sell that chainchecker, it is worthless. With that tool I once read 0.25% elongation on a brand new SRAM chain. The ruler method gave me 12" on the spot, as expected.

Measure that chain with a steel ruler. Even if it is correct, for the future buy brandname chains.

As others said, could be the freehub ratchet.
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Old 05-29-19, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
I believe that dsaul is referencing the freehub body's ratchet, not some cog/spline/locknut thing. The next test is a different wheel with your cassette, to eliminate one item at a time. Andy
I've been meaning to repack my wheel bearings. Maybe I will take this opportunity to remove the rear axle and bearings, then remove the freehub body and then run it in some mineral spirits then drizzle in some thick oil. The gear grinding sound I've been getting is hard to locate to the source. I assumed it was chain slippage. I suppose it could be a wonky freehub body back spinning when under heavy torque.

Sorting out this issue is taking some time.
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Old 05-29-19, 04:13 PM
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Freehub bearing.

Can the freehub be moved side to side or fore/aft?

When is the last time the freehub bearing was serviced?

Or wheel bearings for that matter.


-Tim-
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Old 05-30-19, 01:30 PM
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Start with basic diagnostic troubleshooting. Step One. Did everything work fine before you started swapping parts? What changed? If the freehub was working fine before, I'd drop it to the bottom of the list of usual suspects. Do your chainrings have the same mileage as your 'used' cassette? Do they look worn? I do a lot of hard climbing and my aluminum chainrings usually need replacing about every 2-3 cassettes.
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Old 05-30-19, 03:32 PM
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KMC Chain checker is the new 'best' tool ..

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Old 05-30-19, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
KMC Chain checker is the new 'best' tool ..

You mean the digital one? What is it that you like about this tool?
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Old 05-30-19, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
Sell that chainchecker, it is worthless. With that tool I once read 0.25% elongation on a brand new SRAM chain. The ruler method gave me 12" on the spot, as expected.

Measure that chain with a steel ruler. Even if it is correct, for the future buy brandname chains.

As others said, could be the freehub ratchet.
Ah, ....it actually says on the CC2 chain checker .25 is a new chain. It's all relative.
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Old 05-30-19, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
This is a Dura Ace 7700 with the titanium freehub body. The lockring is torqued to 40n/m and the mechanism seems tight. I apply a light coating of grease to the spline. When I installed the HG compatible SRAM cassette, I made sure to line it up with the skinny spline on the freehub body. Slippage of the freehub pawls has crossed my mind. I even asked my LBS mechanic friend if this could be it and he was rather confident that if my current Taya chain didn’t start behaving soon, that my next action is to replace the chain with one known to work well, his recommendation being a Campy Record 9 speed.

Funny thing, another dude I ride with who runs a rival LBS was the one who suggested the longer housing loop in the rear - he suggested always running with Shimano chains.

Meanwhile, I remain a bit of an iconoclast, chosing to do my own mechanic work. I have suffered sometimes from questionable setups that linger on a little to long. Usually I am able to get it right by doing the very process I am doing now - seeking advice here and from my mechanic friends.
The reason I changed my DA Ti freehub body is that it would occasionally skip. I replaced it with an Ultegra body and solved the problem The weight difference is about 13g.
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Old 05-30-19, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by davidad View Post
The reason I changed my DA Ti freehub body is that it would occasionally skip. I replaced it with an Ultegra body and solved the problem The weight difference is about 13g.
I’ve never serviced my 7700 freehub body. It’s hard to tell if mine is slipping or if is the chain. I’ll hopefully know soon. For my next ride I plan to switch chains back to my SRAM PC991 & evaluate further.

I may try to work some Pedro’s Synthoil into the freehub body to see if that changes anything...
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Old 05-30-19, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
Ah, ....it actually says on the CC2 chain checker .25 is a new chain. It's all relative.
Great tool that indicates I should replace a new chain. At least they are conservative and don't let you use chains for too long....
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Old 05-30-19, 08:00 PM
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It's possible your chainring is shot. I had to replace mine recently after letting the chain go too long.
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Old 05-31-19, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
It's possible your chainring is shot. I had to replace mine recently after letting the chain go too long.
‘Someone else suggested replacing a chainring. My problem with slippage is in the rear drivetrain area, not in the crankset area.
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Old 05-31-19, 06:07 AM
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Into the third day, maybe this is the day to try a different chain
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