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Bottom Bracket question

Old 06-03-19, 11:57 AM
  #1  
StodaD
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Bottom Bracket question

Hi guys, im new to this forum and delighted to be part of it.

I have a question regarding my bottom bracket. I have a BB on my bike that is compatible for shimano dura ace gxp crankset. I got myself a quarq d zero gxp powermeter and sram chainrings and i assembled the rings together onto the quarq arms. That was fine.

However when trying to remove the cup of the bottom bracket of the shimano BB on the right hand side of the bike with the removal tool, the left cup rotates as well and cannot get that to stop rotating while i try to remove from the right hand side. I am turning it in a clockwise position (RHS cup) . The cup on the left hand side rotates as well and i dont have any other tool to stop this rotating while i try remove the bottom bracket off the bike. I want to install a sram BB which i have bought as there is a gap with the shimano BB on the bike if you install the quarq powermeter on it, whereas the sram BB is the correct fit size.

Any solutions for me to try out?

Thanks again.

StodaD
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Old 06-03-19, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by StodaD View Post
Hi guys, im new to this forum and delighted to be part of it.

I have a question regarding my bottom bracket. I have a BB on my bike that is compatible for shimano dura ace gxp crankset. I got myself a quarq d zero gxp powermeter and sram chainrings and i assembled the rings together onto the quarq arms. That was fine.

However when trying to remove the cup of the bottom bracket of the shimano BB on the right hand side of the bike with the removal tool, the left cup rotates as well and cannot get that to stop rotating while i try to remove from the right hand side. I am turning it in a clockwise position (RHS cup) . The cup on the left hand side rotates as well and i dont have any other tool to stop this rotating while i try remove the bottom bracket off the bike. I want to install a sram BB which i have bought as there is a gap with the shimano BB on the bike if you install the quarq powermeter on it, whereas the sram BB is the correct fit size.

Any solutions for me to try out?

Thanks again.

StodaD
Can you use a flat screwdriver, hold the shank against the spindle, jam the blade into one of the splines? A picture would help.
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Old 06-03-19, 02:50 PM
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...if it were me, I'd just buy another Shimano BB tool for the other side, so you can use both of them at the same time. They're not real expensive.
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Old 06-03-19, 05:28 PM
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The cups should only be connected by a plastic sleeve with some o-rings holding it together. There is no reason why you can't just keep turning the drive side and pull it out.

By the way - GXP is a SRAM thing. Shimano 24mm is called Hollowtech II and they are not compatible, as you have discovered.
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Old 06-03-19, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dsaul View Post
The cups should only be connected by a plastic sleeve with some o-rings holding it together. There is no reason why you can't just keep turning the drive side and pull it out.

By the way - GXP is a SRAM thing. Shimano 24mm is called Hollowtech II and they are not compatible, as you have discovered.
Exactly, just keep turning the external cup until it comes out, then remove the other one
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Old 06-04-19, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
Exactly, just keep turning the external cup until it comes out, then remove the other one
I find when i keep turning the drive side cup. The left one keeps turning too. I will take a photo and upload for you guys to see.
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Old 06-05-19, 06:07 AM
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Definitely need some pics of what you are talking about. Both sides are threaded such that, if they are both turning at the same time, they are both unthreading. This is assuming that this is an english threaded bottom bracket, which is not clear from the information provided.
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Old 06-05-19, 07:16 AM
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If they’re both turning and not extracting, that suggests there’s no thread engagement.
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Old 06-05-19, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dsaul View Post
Definitely need some pics of what you are talking about. Both sides are threaded such that, if they are both turning at the same time, they are both unthreading. This is assuming that this is an english threaded bottom bracket, which is not clear from the information provided.
Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
If they’re both turning and not extracting, that suggests there’s no thread engagement.
I will try and get photos up but im not allowed at the moment as im new to this forum.
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Old 08-13-19, 01:12 PM
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Old 08-13-19, 01:19 PM
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See picture above.

Tried removing the bb with a shimano bb tool remover. I turned the driveside bottom bracket cup clockwise and the LHS cup rotates as well. I tried turning the LHS cup anti clockwise and the right hand side cup rotates as well. I bought a second BB tool remover and tried to hold one cup while turning on the other side. This does not remove the cup either. The tools keep slipping when applying force. When holding the left cup with the tool remover and applying force clockwise on right hand side the tools keep slipping. There shouldnt be that much force needed to remove them. Anyone have any solutions?
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Old 08-13-19, 06:11 PM
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I can’t tell from the picture what type of BB you have. Is it possible it is a press fit BB? Some of the PF30 types have the two sides threaded together, so turning the drive side counter clockwise rather than clockwise will push them apart. That also
means they have the fittings for a normal BB tool and look like they are threaded in even though they are actually press fit.
I’m thinking of something like this: https://mikesbikes.com/products/pf30...SABEgK-jfD_BwE
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Old 08-13-19, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by StodaD View Post
I turned the driveside bottom bracket cup clockwise and the LHS cup rotates as well.
Based on the photo, I think it's a Shimano SM-BBR60 (or a similar Shimano BB). These are threaded, the right (drive) side is left-hand threaded, and the non-drive side is right-hand threaded.

Very strange that both adapters are rotating. That might indicate this is a press fit BB, but I've never seen a press fit BB with external bearings.

If this is indeed a Shimano threaded BB, there is nothing that joins the two adapters, other than a plastic tube. Can you check the specs for the frame, to make sure it takes a threaded BB?

Installation instructions for SM-BBR60:

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Old 08-14-19, 02:18 AM
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A dura ace crank 7950 was used with this bottom bracket. I take it it would have to be shimano compatible?
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Old 08-14-19, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by StodaD View Post
A dura ace crank 7950 was used with this bottom bracket. I take it it would have to be shimano compatible?
Yes, but that doesn’t narrow things down much. There are many different types that accept a shimano spindle.
Is there any label on the BB that provides any info on model? Or do you have original specs on the bike?
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Old 08-14-19, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
That might indicate this is a press fit BB, but I've never seen a press fit BB with external bearings.
Press fit BBs with outboard bearings are becoming fairly common, and the newer ones have the two sides threaded to each other, which would explain why the OP is seeing movement of both sides, but no movement outward. An example of such a BB is below:
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Old 08-14-19, 07:53 AM
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A possible scenario: The frame was built with a threaded aluminum sleeve bonded into the bottom bracket shell and the adhesive holding it in place has failed allowing the sleeve to rotate inside the bottom bracket shell. Not knowing the make and model of the frame there is no way to know if this is the case. If the threaded cups were installed using thread locker they might be very difficult to remove.
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Old 08-14-19, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
A possible scenario: The frame was built with a threaded aluminum sleeve bonded into the bottom bracket shell and the adhesive holding it in place has failed allowing the sleeve to rotate inside the bottom bracket shell. Not knowing the make and model of the frame there is no way to know if this is the case. If the threaded cups were installed using thread locker they might be very difficult to remove.
The Bike is an Felt AR4 bike 2012 version.

Last edited by StodaD; 08-14-19 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 08-14-19, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by AeroGut View Post
Press fit BBs with outboard bearings are becoming fairly common, and the newer ones have the two sides threaded to each other, which would explain why the OP is seeing movement of both sides, but no movement outward. An example of such a BB is below:
Below is information on the bottom bracket RHS

AL6061-123
DRIVELINE EX TYPE

BC 1.37 L.H.

Tighten torque 35-50nm

Thats all the info on it.

Last edited by StodaD; 08-14-19 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 08-14-19, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by StodaD View Post
Below is information on the bottom bracket RHS

AL6061-123
DRIVELINE EX TYPE

BC 1.37 L.H.

Tighten torque 35-50nm

Thats all the info on it.
Well that is a threaded bottom bracket, so you were doing everything right. alcjphil’s theory is the only one that makes sense right now. Is it under warranty at all? I would take it back to the shop you bought it from and have them take a look. If the adhesive really has failed, I would hope that would be considered manufacturer defect and they’d replace it.
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Old 08-14-19, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by AeroGut View Post
Well that is a threaded bottom bracket, so you were doing everything right. alcjphil’s theory is the only one that makes sense right now. Is it under warranty at all? I would take it back to the shop you bought it from and have them take a look. If the adhesive really has failed, I would hope that would be considered manufacturer defect and they’d replace it.
Bike is over 7 years old now so no warranty. There was an FSA crankset on it years ago but was changed out with shimano parts. That included a shimano bottom bracket. Is this BB goosed? If i could get it off thats all i require. Wont be ever using it again.

I want to remove it to install a sram BB for quarq powermeter. Otherwise there is going to be a gap with the sram crankset arm through the shimano bb.

Last edited by StodaD; 08-14-19 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 08-14-19, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by StodaD View Post
The Bike is an Felt AR4 bike 2012 version.
The 2012 AR4 had a threaded aluminum BB shell, and an FSA MegaExo bottom bracket.

So if the non-drive side of the BB is turning when you are turning the drive side, the threaded shell itself must be turning inside the frame. That's not good.

Maybe if you hold one side while turning the other side, you can get one of the sides to unthread from the shell. Assuming you get the BB removed, you still have the problem of the loose threaded shell.
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Old 08-14-19, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
The 2012 AR4 had a threaded aluminum BB shell, and an FSA MegaExo bottom bracket.

So if the non-drive side of the BB is turning when you are turning the drive side, the threaded shell itself must be turning inside the frame. That's not good.

Maybe if you hold one side while turning the other side, you can get one of the sides to unthread from the shell. Assuming you get the BB removed, you still have the problem of the loose threaded shell.
+1
That was my fear as well. If the BB shell bonded to the carbon frame is turning, It will soon become more loose the more you turn it. If you manage to get one cup out the other will still be securely fastened to the alloy shell. If you do that your only option may be to pull the alloy sleeve out hoping to reapply adhesive inside the bottom bracket shell. To me, this is probably a manufacturing defect
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Old 08-14-19, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by StodaD View Post
Bike is over 7 years old now so no warranty. There was an FSA crankset on it years ago but was changed out with shimano parts. That included a shimano bottom bracket. Is this BB goosed? If i could get it off thats all i require. Wont be ever using it again.

I want to remove it to install a sram BB for quarq powermeter. Otherwise there is going to be a gap with the sram crankset arm through the shimano bb.
The problem isn't the bottom bracket. More likely your bottom bracket shell is no longer properly bonded to the frame. If this is the case, I would still contact the manufacturer if you are the original owner. This is a manufacturing defect
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