Wilfred Laurier

I promise they have hangers for 7 year old Madones. All catalogued by frame make model and year. And, while I wouldn't be money on it, I would thing Trek does indeed still provide hangers for that bike.

Either way, 'Straightening' a hanger on a carbon bike is an unnecessary risk that the shop could have avoided by saying 'we dont' have a hanger, but we can get one."

I've been in this situation, where you try to do something out of the ordinary or cut corners because you don't want to have to tell a customer that their bike won't be ready today, or will be more expensive. You can generally get away with a kludge on a cheap bike, where a broken-hanger-caused scratch isn't the end of a frame.

I'm not saying it's entirely the shop's fault - maybe they told that OP's friend that he would have to wait, or that a new hanger was $50, and he complained. But hangers are definitely available, and the shop should know that, and that would have been the correct solution and would have avoided the problem.

sdmc530

You are so correct...you can get a hanger for just about any modern bike. May not be in shop but they can get them. I purchased one of each extra for my bikes so I would not have to wait for one if needed.

zjrog

And a couple others, Wheels Manufacturing comes to mind. I ordered replacement RD hangers for my 1008 C'Dale R200, 2006 CAAD8 and 2010 Performance Access XCL9r. Just to have on hand. So, older than 7 years are generally avaialble, just not always from the OEM...

Once bent, I do not trust aluminum. Much less bent back. One of my biggest "hates" on aluminum. Being a bigger guy, I avoided aluminum bikes. But, my R200 having survived my crash 8 years ago better than I did, I am settling into being "OK" with it. Carbon fiber, on the other hand, I am unsure of. And that is more from the standpoint of in a crash, I do not want fiber in my body. I guess a hold over from my Navy time around fiber and composites after aircraft crashes... So the CAAD8 with a crabon fork, and seatpost is a HUGE stretch for me...

Bike Gremlin

To paraphrase this a bit:
"There are owners of bicycles on here who naturally want to stick LBS with liability and do so loudly and vigorously, so read all replies and think them through."

How does that sound?
@DOS: Do think it all through and use your own best judgement.

I own a small LBS and when there's any chance of me having made a mistake, I consciously err at my expense - because I don't want to have the slightest doubt that I might have screwed someone over.

Which is what OP's LBS might have done in this case. Or it could have been their fault, of course. Either way, frame replacement is a very fair offer IMO.

We are discussing a bicycle neither of us has seen, or worked on. I don't think I'm being subjective, or have an agenda when saying that yes, it is possible for that to happen without having been the LBS's fault.

As for the hanger replacement:
Replacing the hanger would have been the safest bet, but those who have worked with customers in peak season know how things can work out and that not all the people are reasonable (not claiming that to be the case with OP's friend, but also have no idea how the whole arrangement went on).

I for one have had people insist on straightening the hanger, in spite of being informed of the risks combined with that. I've also straightened numerous hangers without any problems, including my own, high milage bicycle's hanger after a crash. For that one at least I was certain it's been straightened only once.

Last ride 76 

ironic some of the stuff in this thread. Even after the update. Sound like a decent LBS, that did something not exactly uncommon, which seems to have had a bad outcome. and is willing, (probably for a variety of reasons,) to make good on the frame. Hooray... People with different immediate interests, looking at things from different points of view, manage to find solution....

CliffordK

They do have a lot.

But, one of the other issues is that the 3rd party derailleur hangers are generally not made by Trek, Giant, Specialized, etc. It isn't necessarily a bad thing, but for a critical part that could wipe out half the bike, I'd almost prefer keeping the OEM hanger than buying a 3rd party hanger.

Also, not all brands are the same.

Many of the Chinese E-Bay hangers are cast.

I believe Wheels Manufacturing uses CNC processing to make theirs, for a more precise cut.

Still, not necessarily OEM.

CliffordK

In this case, I think the "Squeaky Wheel" will get the grease.

But, I think we're missing bits of the story.

• "balky rear shifting"
• bent rear derailleur hanger.
• New replacement rear derailleur.
• etc.

What caused the previous damage?

Front shifting problems?

Chain Suck?

My guess is that there was some underlying pathology here, and the fault wasn't the derailleur hanger repair, but rather a failure to diagnose the underlying shifting problems.

And, a cyclist who chose to power through when the chain caught, rather than stop and diagnose the problem.

Koyote

I think your friend is getting a pretty sweet deal. If it were me, I would at least offer to pay them for switching over the components from the damaged frame. And then I would keep coming back to this shop. They really don't have to replace the frame.

Wilfred Laurier

You seem to be missing the point of replaceable derailleur hangers - they are supposed to be the weak link in the chain so they fail before anything else does in the case of an impact. If an OEM one was readily available, sure, but if not, there should be no hesitation to go to an aftermarket hanger, especially if your other option is to use a 'repaired' hanger, like the one that caused the problem that resulted in this thread.

CliffordK

The point is that it is supposed to be the "weak link".

And, as you suggest, it should fail before taking out the whole rear end of the bike (although that leaves the derailleur hanging loose).

If you were to replace say a carbon fiber hanger with a machined aluminum hanger, it could have very different properties than the OEM hanger.

I'm surprised that even the aluminum OEM hangers aren't designed with fracture lines.

A lack of long-term OEM supply chains for parts designed to fail is a problem.

CliffordK

Hills... New Derailleur... Broken derailleur + hanger + rear-end & damaged SEAT stay.


I think we're focusing too much on the re-straightened hanger.

@DOS, what is the condition of the wheel? Was the derailleur tangled up in the spokes?

I still don't think the derailleur hanger spontaneously fell apart. Rather, something else happened that tore it up.

I mentioned chain suck earlier, but thinking about it more, I bet, for some reason the bike shifted into the spokes. Was there a spoke protector?

This still could well be a bike shop problem, not for touching up the derailleur hanger, but quite possibly not getting the rear derailleur adjusted properly (unless your buddy tinkered with the adjustment or dropped the bike on the derailleur).

The chain was sized for the bike to shift into the Big/Big ring combo, right?

DOS

I suppose the sweetness of the deal depends on the frame that he is offered. I imagine some combination of LBS assessment of what level frame is a comparable replacement and what is available will come into play. That said, I am kind of surprised the shop has gone as far as frame replacement. I can only guess that they determined that the damage to the hanger was if fact the shop's fault (or at least absent evidence to the contrary, assuming so) or they decided that a happy customer and good word of mouth in a crowded market place outweighs the cost of a new frame. Generally, I like the shop in question, but it is right down the street from another very good shop and up the street from a "Trek Dealership" (the latter used to be an LBS that has been converted to a Trek-owned retail outlet) so lots of local competition.

Wilfred Laurier

The general geometry of a replaceable hanger seems to be designed to bend or break, even without notched or other features obviously intended to create a break. Most of them have one part about half the thickness of the average aluminum dropout, then a sudden increase up to the entire thickness of a droupout. This should (and does, as my experience has shown) create a weak point right next to where the thickness increases.

Generally speaking, they need to be strong enough, but not too strong... a blow to the derailleur should bend the hanger but not damage the frame, and not allow the derailleur to too easily snap off. If it is too weak, as I suspect the OP's friend's repaired hanger was, it can break or begin to fail under normal shifting loads. Either the derailleur falls off and the drivetrain self destructs or damages the frame, or the hanger is bent enough to cause the derailleur to throw the chain off the cassette, which, if it happens on the inside/larger cogs, will then catch your derailleur in the spokes and possibly destroy the derailleur, wheel, frame, cassette, cogs, etc.

CliffordK

I don't get to see the "average" broken hanger.

It is not uncommon to see photos posted on BikeForums where a broken derailleur hanger has also broken parts of the dropouts, especially with 100% carbon fiber dropouts.

Your point of making the hanger flexible enough to bend easily under normal load (not necessarily fracture) is a valid point.

DOS

No wheel damage. It doesn't appear that the derailleur came in contact with the wheel at all.

operator

If this was our shop.

We would repair all. Regardless of who was at fault, there was a repair and a failure afterwards. We always do a 30 day repair warranty on EVERYTHING. Now this isn't a black and white line.

If it was OBVIOUS it was YOUR fault, we would not fix it and let you know why.

If it was a grey area like this, typically we'd err on the side of we ****ed up and maintain the relationship with the customer.

operator

Highly unlikey it'll damage cogs.

Usually at most RD, hanger obviously and chain.

DOS

Seems a reasonable philosophy. I don’t evny the shop guys in this type of situation. There are a lot of mistreated bikes out there. I have been standing in shops more than once, waiting my turn with the mechanics, while some customer with some absurdly mistreated bike argued that the mechanic should be able to do this or that to get the bike working at 1/2 the price or in 1/4 of the time the shop had quoted.

operator

I've made my fair share of mistakes on customer bikes, a good shop always has your back, even when you ****ed up.

It doesn't cost that much money in the long run to fix whatever is broken and to keep a customer. Unless you were a customer they didn't want, lol.