retroroadie

I've installed almost new 10-speed Rival shifters. The rear shifting is working flawlessly, but for some reason, the front derailleur will not stay over the big chainring.


1) Yes, I've set the limiters correctly.

2) Yes, new cables, housings (no burrs), and caps.

3) Yes, tested the shifter w/o cable first.

4) Yes, made sure the cable moved smoothly prior to connecting.

5) Yes, tried with both a Rival front D and an Ultegra front D (with cable installed properly).

6) Yes, swapped out the crankset (with new rings).

7) Yes, checked for chain stretch.


It will shift the chain onto the big ring, but moves back slightly, so it either stays on the big ring but with substantial rub, or drops the chain back into the small ring (depending on what gear I am on in the back).

The shifters appear to have 3 distinct indexing spots: the upshift, a trim position, and the downshift. For context, I am running a 50-36T chainring setup with a 12-28T cogset on an older Giant Advanced SL ISP.


Anyone run into the same issue? Thanks.

Andrew R Stewart 

The first two potentials are either too much cable tension (actually "casing" length) and the shifter isn't catching the primary (and 3rd) click then settling back onto the middle one. Or too little tension and the primary large ring click is engaged but the cable is loose enough to allow for cage return as the lever is released. Does the bike have a cable adjuster? Andy

retroroadie

No cable adjuster. I've eased off the tension and deliberately opened up the outer limiter to test. Oddly enough, the shifter doesn't seem to have a firm large ring click engagement once it's up, only on the initial swing of the shifter blade.

Andrew R Stewart 

I don't understand- The shifter has a primary/3rd click with the initial lever swing or not? Is the shifter doing something different then when the cable is only held in hand, not attached to the der? When up on the large ring, and in whatever engagement click you're getting, can you trim back the cage but not shift off the large ring? Andy

retroroadie

Hi Andrew, there is a primary click with the initial lever swing, but the click occurs mid-swing, NOT at the apex of the swing which is what I would expect.

The cable is doing what it should when held in hand: 1st click = cable pull, 2nd click = minor cable release, 3rd click = major cable release.

When in the big ring, the 2nd click sometimes shifts down to the small ring, sometimes not - depending on where the chain is on the cogset.

It's almost like it won't engage a pawl cleanly.

Andrew R Stewart 

If all three positions (and that means the primary click as you shift up to the large ring and the trim back as well as the small ring's position) are consistently engaging then they are likely fine. As to where in the lever's swing the 3rd click happens is up to the set up/ft der to a large degree. The lever will have some amount of "overshift" past the click point IIRC. Just like Shimano. Also, IIRC, the trim position click won't happen on the upshift, only with a partial "downshift swing. Too much swing during the trimming and you release down all the way to shift back onto the small ring.

It still sounds like cable tension is not the best but as I can't touch and find out you have to. Have you compared to a known good unit? Have you had someone with more experience look at it yet?

SRAM was known for some initial teething issues when Force first came out. Broken lever bodies and ratchet pivots. We have seen some ratchets no longer working well, but not many and few and far between these days. SRAM has had a pretty liberal warranty coverage in the past. Perhaps the shop that sold you the levers (on a bike?) might be the first step if you think that the lever's bad. Andy.

dsbrantjr

You might consider adding one, they make adjustment much easier and you can make much finer adjustments and more repeatable than by loosening screw/moving wire/tightening screw, rinse and repeat. Assuming the adjuster has a 1mm thread pitch, 1/8 turn=0.125mm; this would be difficult to do the other way.

retroroadie

Yup, I sometimes add one via a cable break. But adding an adjuster won’t help me here. The shifter is not holding position over the big ring. I may swap out the shifter to test, as everything else in the system seems optimal.

dsaul

I'm with Andrew on the cable tension. If the initial tension is too high, the shifter will not be able to reach the detent position for the large ring. The correct initial tension is usually no tension, when the derailleur is against the low limit.

79pmooney

I'm a total neophyte to index shifting but I am wondering if the high gear limit screw needs to be backed off a touch so the shifter can move the chain past the proper setting, then relax a little to the correct position. This would also require tightening the cable a touch so it moves the cage a little further (and as others have said, most easily facilitated with an inline screw adjust).

retroroadie

Thanks for the help and advice, Andrew. The cable tension is fine - I've been a bike mechanic for 35+ years and have worked roadie stuff for a long time. Everything else been fine, I'm looking at swapping out the unit and checking if the internal cable routing isn't being fouled a bit somewhere in the frame.

I bought the levers from a fellow that swapped them out for a Red upgrade. Interesting about the ratchet issues. I'll let you know what I find.

retroroadie

Cable tension is almost 0 at small ring rest position. The "overshift" following the shift to the big ring seems to exhibit too much movement. Going to swap out the unit to double-check.

retroroadie

Hi 79pmooney, it's not a limiter issue. I would curse myself for a bonehead if I made such a rookie mistake. I'm convinced it's either a faulty ratchet problem or an internal cable run issue. I'll eventually solve it.

retroroadie

Well, it was definitely a shifter issue. I swapped in a different Sram Rival shifter and it IS holding the primary shift. It is almost like the first shifter had a worn detente and the overshifting kicked in too much. Having said that, there are a few things about SRAM Rival that I don't like: 1) feeding the cable through (if it is not a brand new cable) is problematical - and yes, I tried the solder or nail polish trick; 2) the front shifting performance with the primary shift to big ring/trim/shift to small ring is simply not as good as Shimano's, and seems to be even worse when paired with a setup with a slightly wider Q-factor; 3) the first unit was an almost new take-off. People's opinions on SRAM road shifting seem all over the map; maybe their quality control is not up to snuff or the setup is too finicky? I's too bad because their rear shifting seems great. I hope the newer models and Yaw units have addressed the problems.