Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Why is this new cassette loose?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Why is this new cassette loose?

Old 08-29-19, 11:36 AM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Work in Asia, now based in Vienna, VA
Posts: 1,758
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 35 Times in 23 Posts
Why is this new cassette loose?

I'm treading across the vintage line and into an issue.

So, I went to change the cogs on an FH-1055 (126mm). I’d been running a Uniglide (UG) cassette, but it was worn and giving problems. In my parts box I find a Hyperglide (HG) cassette and decide to use it.

Maybe hard to believe, but this is my first HG cassette on any of my bikes. Freewheels, yes, but no HG cassettes.

The problem? It’s loose. The lock ring, even if torqued down hard, leaves a bit of space. Thus, either the single 12t cog is quite sloppy . . and/or the entire cassette can move about the same amount of play.

It's too little for any spacer I have, but too much to ignore.

Am I missing something here? (Obviously, but what?)

Thank you.

Owen
__________________
1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (my favorite!)
1963 Hetchins Mountain King
1971 Gitane Tour de France (original owner)
* 1971 Gitane Super Corsa (crashed)
* rebuilt as upright cruiser
1971 Gitane Super Corsa #2 (sweet replacement)
1980 Ritchey Road Touring (The Grail Bike)
1982 Tom Ritchey Everest
(replacing stolen 1981 TR Everest custom)
1982 Tom Ritchey McKinley (touring pickup truck)
1985 ALAN Record (Glued & Screwed. A gift.)
LeicaLad is offline  
Old 08-29-19, 11:40 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,086
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 360 Post(s)
Liked 129 Times in 89 Posts
You may need to use a tiny 1mm spacer ring on it.
Jicafold is offline  
Old 08-29-19, 11:44 AM
  #3  
Really Old Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Posts: 13,856

Bikes: 87 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds. 2019 Giant Explore E+3

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1785 Post(s)
Liked 1,259 Times in 868 Posts
Did it use to have a "pie plate" spoke protector sandwiched in?

Any LBS should have spare .85mm spacers used with 10 speed cassette.
Maybe get a couple of them?
Bill Kapaun is offline  
Old 08-29-19, 12:52 PM
  #4  
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,626

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3870 Post(s)
Liked 2,563 Times in 1,577 Posts
I assume that's a 12-28T "E" cassette. Shouldn't need any extra spacers to work on a FH-1055 hub, and the E cassette was unique in not needing a spacer between the 12T and 14T -- it was built into the 12T cog.

I would check to make sure the rivet heads on the back of the cassette aren't running into anything. Could you take a picture behind the cassette?

Oh! If you are still using a Uniglide-style dustcap, that could be blocking the lockring from going in all the way.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498

Last edited by ThermionicScott; 08-29-19 at 01:00 PM.
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 08-29-19, 02:09 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Work in Asia, now based in Vienna, VA
Posts: 1,758
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 35 Times in 23 Posts
"Uniglide-style dustcap"??

I have a spare FH-1055 I'll go dig out to look at.

But I'm uncertain. The lock ring looks like it's pretty flush and can't go much deeper.

I have some 9s spacers and it's simply huge. I need something almost shim-like.

AND would it go behind the cassette OR under the lock-ring in front?

It's a very small amount.

Thanks.
Owen
__________________
1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (my favorite!)
1963 Hetchins Mountain King
1971 Gitane Tour de France (original owner)
* 1971 Gitane Super Corsa (crashed)
* rebuilt as upright cruiser
1971 Gitane Super Corsa #2 (sweet replacement)
1980 Ritchey Road Touring (The Grail Bike)
1982 Tom Ritchey Everest
(replacing stolen 1981 TR Everest custom)
1982 Tom Ritchey McKinley (touring pickup truck)
1985 ALAN Record (Glued & Screwed. A gift.)
LeicaLad is offline  
Old 08-29-19, 02:33 PM
  #6  
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,626

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3870 Post(s)
Liked 2,563 Times in 1,577 Posts
So just to humor me: without the cassette in place, could you thread the lockring down completely flush to the freehub body?

This is strange. A stock 1055 hub and E cassette should just work. Thus I'm intrigued...

(If worse came to worst, a shim of maybe 0.5mm or so behind the cassette should take up the play and allow the lockring to torque the cassette in place, but that ought not to be necessary!)
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498

Last edited by ThermionicScott; 08-29-19 at 02:41 PM.
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 08-29-19, 02:41 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Work in Asia, now based in Vienna, VA
Posts: 1,758
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 35 Times in 23 Posts
Always happy to humor.

First, attached is a photo of a clean FH-1055. Don't think anything can come out.



After finding that, I kept digging through my cogs and cassettes boxes. I found another unused HG cassette, and it had a very thin little spacer under the smallest cog.

I stole that baby and put it on. Snug as a bug. Sorry I forgot to photograph it before it went on.

I need to find a few more of those.

:- )
__________________
1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (my favorite!)
1963 Hetchins Mountain King
1971 Gitane Tour de France (original owner)
* 1971 Gitane Super Corsa (crashed)
* rebuilt as upright cruiser
1971 Gitane Super Corsa #2 (sweet replacement)
1980 Ritchey Road Touring (The Grail Bike)
1982 Tom Ritchey Everest
(replacing stolen 1981 TR Everest custom)
1982 Tom Ritchey McKinley (touring pickup truck)
1985 ALAN Record (Glued & Screwed. A gift.)
LeicaLad is offline  
Old 08-29-19, 04:28 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
dsbrantjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 8,319

Bikes: '93 Trek 750, '92 Schwinn Crisscross, '93 Mongoose Alta

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1438 Post(s)
Liked 1,092 Times in 723 Posts
If the cassette does not overhang the freehub body by a millimeter or two so that the lock ring will clamp it securely, you will need a spacer behind the cassette, as you have found. They are readily available online, like here: https://www.modernbike.com/cassette-spacers or likely cheap or free(takeoffs) at a local bike shop. Do be certain that your cassette is not missing one.
dsbrantjr is offline  
Old 08-29-19, 05:17 PM
  #9  
smelling the roses
 
seedsbelize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tixkokob, Yucatán, México
Posts: 15,320

Bikes: 79 Trek 930, 80 Trek 414, 84 Schwinn Letour Luxe (coupled), 92 Schwinn Paramount PDG 5

Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7081 Post(s)
Liked 901 Times in 612 Posts
I have yet to use a UG cassette. I have only one bike that uses cassettes, so I may just miss this boat.
__________________
Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
Auto-pause is a honey-tongued devil whispering sweet lies in your ear.


seedsbelize is offline  
Old 08-29-19, 06:25 PM
  #10  
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,626

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3870 Post(s)
Liked 2,563 Times in 1,577 Posts
Originally Posted by LeicaLad
Always happy to humor.

First, attached is a photo of a clean FH-1055. Don't think anything can come out.

Thanks, that's exactly what mine look like.

After finding that, I kept digging through my cogs and cassettes boxes. I found another unused HG cassette, and it had a very thin little spacer under the smallest cog.

I stole that baby and put it on. Snug as a bug. Sorry I forgot to photograph it before it went on.
Cool, one of these guys?



I measure it at about 1mm thick, and it's what Shimano used on their 13-X and 14-32 cassettes between the 1st and 2nd cogs. 12T cogs as used in the 12-21 and 12-28 are thicker, so they don't need the spacer, not sure why they did it two different ways. Here you can see the difference between a 12-28 (left) and 13-21 (right) cassette:



If the 12-28 had one of those spacers inserted, the first two cogs would be too far apart, similarly, removing the spacer from the 13-21 would put the first two cogs too close together.

Originally Posted by dsbrantjr
If the cassette does not overhang the freehub body by a millimeter or two so that the lock ring will clamp it securely, you will need a spacer behind the cassette, as you have found. They are readily available online, like here: https://www.modernbike.com/cassette-spacers or likely cheap or free(takeoffs) at a local bike shop. Do be certain that your cassette is not missing one.
As above, the 12-28 cassette was unique in being designed not to use any spacers. So it can't be missing any.

One possibility remains, @LeicaLad! Locknuts for 11T cogs have deeper threading than locknuts for 12+ cogs, since they stand out further. It's hard to see, but the 11T locknut on the left has about 0.5mm deeper threading:



Just for fun, I mounted a 12-28 cassette on one of my Hyperglide hubs with the 11T locknut, and sure enough, it bottomed out without fully locking the cogs in place! So you might check to see if you accidentally put one of those on. Regular locknuts are 38mm while the 11T locknuts are narrower (35mm) in order to avoid interfering with the chain, if that helps identification.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498

Last edited by ThermionicScott; 08-29-19 at 06:41 PM.
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 08-29-19, 06:47 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Work in Asia, now based in Vienna, VA
Posts: 1,758
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 35 Times in 23 Posts
[QUOTE=ThermionicScott;21098967]Thanks, that's exactly what mine look like.

Cool, one of these guys?



Dat's it. And it was attached to a 14-28 cassette, which fits with your description. So, with the spacer underneath the 12t cog. . . it appears to set the distance between the first two cogs slightly too much.

I'd take a picture, but you get the point. I think I need to remove it from behind the 12t and put it behind the cassette. The spacer was enough to give me a tight fit, but the spacing doesn't please my eye.

I think behind the cassette will work.

Thank you for bringing me from the early into late 1980s!!!

Owen
__________________
1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (my favorite!)
1963 Hetchins Mountain King
1971 Gitane Tour de France (original owner)
* 1971 Gitane Super Corsa (crashed)
* rebuilt as upright cruiser
1971 Gitane Super Corsa #2 (sweet replacement)
1980 Ritchey Road Touring (The Grail Bike)
1982 Tom Ritchey Everest
(replacing stolen 1981 TR Everest custom)
1982 Tom Ritchey McKinley (touring pickup truck)
1985 ALAN Record (Glued & Screwed. A gift.)
LeicaLad is offline  
Old 08-29-19, 09:21 PM
  #12  
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,626

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3870 Post(s)
Liked 2,563 Times in 1,577 Posts
Originally Posted by LeicaLad
Thank you for bringing me from the early into late 1980s!!!

Owen
You bet! I didn't get into C&V bikes until later than most, and it was with a 1991 road bike with 7-speed Hyperglide, so I'm more familiar with that system than others.

I must warn you that that spacer might not work well behind the cassette. It's likely to run into the rivet heads on the back of the cassette, so you may need to enlarge three of the cutouts a smidge.

Alternately, I have lots of extra 12T lockrings. Shoot me your address and I'll send you one if you don't have any of the larger ones.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 08-30-19, 03:35 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Work in Asia, now based in Vienna, VA
Posts: 1,758
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 35 Times in 23 Posts
Many thanks, Scott.

I'll let you know after today's tinkering.

: -)

Cheers!
__________________
1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (my favorite!)
1963 Hetchins Mountain King
1971 Gitane Tour de France (original owner)
* 1971 Gitane Super Corsa (crashed)
* rebuilt as upright cruiser
1971 Gitane Super Corsa #2 (sweet replacement)
1980 Ritchey Road Touring (The Grail Bike)
1982 Tom Ritchey Everest
(replacing stolen 1981 TR Everest custom)
1982 Tom Ritchey McKinley (touring pickup truck)
1985 ALAN Record (Glued & Screwed. A gift.)
LeicaLad is offline  
Old 08-30-19, 04:40 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Work in Asia, now based in Vienna, VA
Posts: 1,758
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 35 Times in 23 Posts
Ah. Final report.

Thanks, Scott, for calling my attention to watch the alignment of the rivet heads with the spacer. Once done, it all settles into place, and the spacing looks perfect.

All this to upgrade my '71 Gitane TdF that I bought brand new. There's hardly an original part left on the frame, but it rides wonderfully.

Currently at 650B 38mm tires, too.

Soon enough, I'll see what all this fuss about Hyperglide is about.

Thanks, again.

Owen
__________________
1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (my favorite!)
1963 Hetchins Mountain King
1971 Gitane Tour de France (original owner)
* 1971 Gitane Super Corsa (crashed)
* rebuilt as upright cruiser
1971 Gitane Super Corsa #2 (sweet replacement)
1980 Ritchey Road Touring (The Grail Bike)
1982 Tom Ritchey Everest
(replacing stolen 1981 TR Everest custom)
1982 Tom Ritchey McKinley (touring pickup truck)
1985 ALAN Record (Glued & Screwed. A gift.)
LeicaLad is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Paravia
Bicycle Mechanics
42
06-05-16 08:14 AM
jrickards
Bicycle Mechanics
12
07-23-14 04:35 PM
ddscyclist
Bicycle Mechanics
11
01-18-13 08:32 AM
jgf310
Bicycle Mechanics
5
05-31-12 07:50 PM
WNG
Bicycle Mechanics
12
09-20-10 07:40 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.