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Short-cage to long-cage derailleur question

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Short-cage to long-cage derailleur question

Old 09-17-19, 10:41 PM
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jim_pridx
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Short-cage to long-cage derailleur question

My wife has a 2009 Specialized Ruby Expert bike in which she'd like to upgrade the gearing from a 10-speed 12/27 cassette to a 10-speed 11/34 cassette, primarily for easier gearing in hill country. The entire drive train consists of Shimano Ultegra SL components (50/34 front) with a rear short-cage derailleur and a 130mm rear hub.. My question is this: can I simply swap out the 10-speed 12/27 cassette for a 10-speed 11/34 cassette while also swapping out the Ultegra SL short-cage derailleur for another Shimano long-cage derailleur? If so, what Shimano derailleur would be the most compatible with this setup? Is cable pull and/or shifter compatibility an issue as well? I've been looking at the Shimano RD-R8000GS 11-speed as an option, but I have no idea if this derailleur would be compatible or not.

I've also been entertaining the idea of upgrading this bike with an 11-speed cassette, but I have a hunch that it may not work with the 130mm hub. If anyone has any ideas as to what may work well with what I'm hoping to achieve, I'd appreciate hearing any feedback! Thanks in advance!
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Old 09-18-19, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jim_pridx View Post
My wife has a 2009 Specialized Ruby Expert bike in which she'd like to upgrade the gearing from a 10-speed 12/27 cassette to a 10-speed 11/34 cassette, primarily for easier gearing in hill country. The entire drive train consists of Shimano Ultegra SL components (50/34 front) with a rear short-cage derailleur and a 130mm rear hub.. My question is this: can I simply swap out the 10-speed 12/27 cassette for a 10-speed 11/34 cassette while also swapping out the Ultegra SL short-cage derailleur for another Shimano long-cage derailleur?
If the long cage derailleur has enough capacity to support an 11/34 cassette, yes. I'd bet money that a long cage 10 speed Ultegra doesn't though. You could get a mountain derailleur and run it though, I run a Deore XT 9 speed rear derailleur with 10 speed 105 brifters on my gravel bike for example, so I can run a high capacity cassette. This might be the setup that works for you. This is what I run:

https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Normal-Shadow-Rear-Derailleur/dp/B000YBCNAA/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3GZ40U0UTSI45&keywords=9+speed+deore+rear+derailleur&qid=1568804725&s=gateway&sprefi x=9+speed+deore%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-4

The lower level "Deore" can be got online for $45, and will also work.

https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-RD-M5...AV6AHPHHCY2EGK

If so, what Shimano derailleur would be the most compatible with this setup? Is cable pull and/or shifter compatibility an issue as well? I've been looking at the Shimano RD-R8000GS 11-speed as an option, but I have no idea if this derailleur would be compatible or not.
11 speed derailleurs are not compatible with 10 speed shifters. Also mountain 10 speed are not compatible with road 10 speed (which is why I recommended a mountain 9 speed above, which has the same pull as a 10 speed road).

I've also been entertaining the idea of upgrading this bike with an 11-speed cassette, but I have a hunch that it may not work with the 130mm hub. If anyone has any ideas as to what may work well with what I'm hoping to achieve, I'd appreciate hearing any feedback! Thanks in advance!
Yeah, 11 speed requires a new hub, which likely means a new wheel.

Last edited by dr_lha; 09-18-19 at 05:11 AM.
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Old 09-18-19, 05:21 AM
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This ^^^

I'm currently using an 11/34 cassette on my road bike with Shimano 10 speed road shifters and a Deore 9 speed MTB rear derailleur.
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Old 09-18-19, 06:46 AM
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Agree with the above. When they went from 10 to 11 speed road components they had to increase the size of the freehub, which required an ever so slightly wider hub (131 instead of 130). The 131 will still mount to any 130 sized frame. The spline pattern is still the same as 10sp, and many other speeds too so the new hubs are backwards compatible to some degree. 10sp MTB uses Dynasys, which is a different derailleur system, and it isn't compatible with road 10sp derailleurs, although the rear cog spacing is the same. It is just the derailleurs and shifters that aren't compatible. I don't know of any road shifters that could shift a Dynasys derailleur either. 9sp of both MTB and road and 10sp road use compatible derailleurs. What I can't tell you is whether a long cage road derailleur will take an 11-34 cassette.
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Old 09-18-19, 08:02 AM
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Thanks, guys! I think I'll shoot for the 9-speed Deore XT! If that's all it takes to make it work, that's great!
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Old 09-18-19, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by zacster View Post
I don't know of any road shifters that could shift a Dynasys derailleur either.
These:

https://www.gevenalle.com/product/gx/

or you can use a adapter that adjusts the pull like this:

https://lindarets.com/tanpan/

Cheapest is way is just to buy a 9-speed MTB derailleur though!
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Old 09-18-19, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jim_pridx View Post
I've also been entertaining the idea of upgrading this bike with an 11-speed cassette, but I have a hunch that it may not work with the 130mm hub. If anyone has any ideas as to what may work well with what I'm hoping to achieve, I'd appreciate hearing any feedback! Thanks in advance!
The 130 mm hub spacing isn't the problem but an 11-speed road cassette requires a slightly wider freehub body, still within the 130 mm OLD. So, while you would need a newer freehub body, or more likely a new rear wheel, your frame will still accept it.
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Old 09-18-19, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
The 130 mm hub spacing isn't the problem but an 11-speed road cassette requires a slightly wider freehub body, still within the 130 mm OLD. So, while you would need a newer freehub body, or more likely a new rear wheel, your frame will still accept it.
Yeah, I think you're right. It's probably best to keep the 10-speed system since we really don't want to sink much cash into this bike.

Regarding a Deore XT 9-speed derailleur for a 10-speed 11-34T cassette, do you suppose something like this will work?

https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-XT...SABEgIkxfD_BwE
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Old 09-18-19, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jim_pridx View Post
Regarding a Deore XT 9-speed derailleur for a 10-speed 11-34T cassette, do you suppose something like this will work?

Shimano-XT-RD-M772-9-Speed-Rear-Derailleur-Sgs-Long-Cage-9-Speed
Probably. I've done XT M771 9 speed rear derailleur installs on Shimano 10-speed groups several times. It works fine, but the shifting is not as quick as Ultegra. Don't try the shadow derailleurs--we could never get them to shift well.

I just did a swap out on my wife's Ultegra bike by replacing the Ultegra RD with a 105 RD-5701-GS, which has a rated max cassette size of 32 teeth, and a 37 tooth chain wrap capacity. No difference in the shifting.
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Old 09-18-19, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Probably. I've done XT M771 9 speed rear derailleur installs on Shimano 10-speed groups several times. It works fine, but the shifting is not as quick as Ultegra. Don't try the shadow derailleurs--we could never get them to shift well.
Thanks for the info! I kind of gathered that a long-cage wouldn't quite shift as well as a short-cage. We spend most of our riding time on the tandem, so this bike doesn't really need quick shifting.

Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
I just did a swap out on my wife's Ultegra bike by replacing the Ultegra RD with a 105
RD-5701-GS, which has a rated max cassette size of 32 teeth, and a 37 tooth chain wrap capacity. No difference in the shifting.
That sounds like a nice option! Thanks! If my wife will settle for a 32 as opposed to a 34, that may be the way to go!
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Old 09-18-19, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post
These:

https://www.gevenalle.com/product/gx/

or you can use a adapter that adjusts the pull like this:

https://lindarets.com/tanpan/

Cheapest is way is just to buy a 9-speed MTB derailleur though!
Those gevenalle shifters are only now available. I don't want to be the first person to try them.

If the 105 derailleur is max rated at 32 it can probably handle a 34. They are conservative with these ratings.
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Old 09-18-19, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by zacster View Post
Those gevenalle shifters are only now available. I don't want to be the first person to try them.
Not sure what you mean, they've been on the market for years, with generally positive reviews.
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Old 09-18-19, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Probably. I've done XT M771 9 speed rear derailleur installs on Shimano 10-speed groups several times. It works fine, but the shifting is not as quick as Ultegra. Don't try the shadow derailleurs--we could never get them to shift well.
Shadow version works fine for me, it's what I've got on my gravel bike. Yes, the shifting isn't Ultegra level, a bit slower.

However, I think if 11-34 is good enough, then that long cage RD-5701 is probably the way to go.
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Old 09-18-19, 03:15 PM
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11-speed MTB cassettes work fine on 8/9/10 speed road wheels. 34T is getting pretty close to where Shimano made them compatible.

I'm not quite sure when the cutoff was, but probably 2009 will be the 8/9/10 speed hub.

As above, 9-speed MTB rear derailleurs should be fine.

There are a few options for 10-speed and 11-speed compatibility.

Wolf Tooth Tanpan

Microshift Bar End Shifters
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Old 09-18-19, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Probably. I've done XT M771 9 speed rear derailleur installs on Shimano 10-speed groups several times. It works fine, but the shifting is not as quick as Ultegra. Don't try the shadow derailleurs--we could never get them to shift well.
Well, I decided to order the Shimano XT M771 9 Speed RD since we already have an 11-34T cassette on hand. It seems that many other aging roadies have successfully done this conversion as well, and I'm quite sure my wife will enjoy the easier gearing, too!

Thanks again everyone for your input! It's truly a joy to find a simple solution in all of the confusion!
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Old 10-11-19, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
I just did a swap out on my wife's Ultegra bike by replacing the Ultegra RD with a 105
RD-5701-GS, which has a rated max cassette size of 32 teeth, and a 37 tooth chain wrap capacity. No difference in the shifting.
Just an update, but I ended up installing the 105 RD with the 11-32t cassette on my wife's bike, and it works like a charm! Thanks for the suggestion!
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