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Recommend cheap strong rim?

Old 11-06-19, 07:29 PM
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Recommend cheap strong rim?

Due to my own stupidity, I'm shopping for a rim to replace a Velocity Dyad 32h (ERD 597).

I see I can get the exact same rim on eBay for like $80, but I'd like to pay more in the neighborhood of $40. Any recommendations for a cheaper, strong (heavy is ok) 32H rim with an ERD close enough that I can just move the existing spokes over? (what is close enough anyways? I know there are millions of ERD threads out there, but I never read them)

Or maybe even a cheap whole rear wheel with a shimao 8-9-10 freehub?
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Old 11-06-19, 07:36 PM
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Hub width?
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Old 11-06-19, 08:16 PM
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You should be able to find Dyad for $60 or so.Same with H Plus Son but I don't know what the erd difference would be. Also dt swiss has some affordable options.
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Old 11-06-19, 08:17 PM
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DT R460 is OE on a few bikes, so probably not terrible. $50. 460g. 32H available. ERD is 596, so 1mm less. May be fine, may be horrible. Depends on if your spokes have 1mm of visible threading beneath the nipples.
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Old 11-07-19, 02:31 AM
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Weinmann Zac 19 is a good sturdy rim, but won't be quite as wide. I use one on my errand bike. I think it was one of those machine made wheels from Wheel Warehouse or someplace like that, generic cup and cone loose bearing hub for threaded freewheel.
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Old 11-07-19, 07:40 AM
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Looking at the Kinlin catalog, which isn't available unless you request it from a sales representative, the closest to 597 ERD I could find are

XD-230
ERD 595mm
inside 17.5mm
outside 23.5mm
height 19.5mm
weight 480g
probably disc only
(spacycles writes ERD 602mm https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s116p3788/KINLIN-XD-230)

MX4
ERD 595mm
inside 17.0mm
outside 23.0mm
height 20.0mm
weight 562g
probably disc and v-brake (vbrake is usually narrower outside for cnc cutting)

DDT32
ERD 595mm
inside 26.0mm
outside 32.0mm
height 20.0mm
weight 695g
disc and v-brake (vbrake was 31mm outside)
(on my 20" rims, I got ERD +4mm greater than stated and this is without eyelets)
(my 20" rim was 91% of the stated weight).

MD25
ERD 592mm
inside 18.0mm
outside 25.0mm
height 21.5mm
weight 570g
Probably disc only
(if the real ERD is like the others and +4 to +7mm, then this might match your spokes)


Alexrims has several models that more closely matches your current rim dimensions, but they don't state the ERD. You could ask them on Facebook. They reply very quickly.
https://alexrims.com/catalogs/

(edit: Alexrims website sometimes shows ERD but the website is a little bit broken.)
https://alexrims.com/products/x2200/
https://alexrims.com/products/xd-elite/

Last edited by tomtomtom123; 11-07-19 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 11-07-19, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Due to my own stupidity, I'm shopping for a rim to replace a Velocity Dyad 32h (ERD 597).

I see I can get the exact same rim on eBay for like $80, but I'd like to pay more in the neighborhood of $40. Any recommendations for a cheaper, strong (heavy is ok) 32H rim with an ERD close enough that I can just move the existing spokes over? (what is close enough anyways? I know there are millions of ERD threads out there, but I never read them)

Or maybe even a cheap whole rear wheel with a shimao 8-9-10 freehub?
Some wheelbuilding tools have databases for rim specs and other stuff. Here's the kstoerz rim database, filtered on rims with an ERD of 596-598mm: https://www.kstoerz.com/freespoke/ri...596&erdmax=598
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Old 11-07-19, 10:36 AM
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Also, actual ERD might be very different than what the manufacturers or other people say. Different batches might have different dimensions. I had a difference of 2mm from the same model. The freespoke database linked above says the Kinlin XR-22T is 596mm, but the catalog says 588mm. Although spacycles gives 596mm. Another shop gives 595mm.
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s116p3767/KINLIN-XR-22T
https://fairwheelbikes.com/kinlin-xr...less-road-rim/

offset version, but this would lengthen the drive side and reduce the non drive side.
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s116...KINLIN-XR-22RT

Last edited by tomtomtom123; 11-07-19 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 11-07-19, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
Hub width?
um...

It's a 105 hub, so probably road standard, and it's in a CrossCheck
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Old 11-07-19, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Weinmann Zac 19 is a good sturdy rim, but won't be quite as wide. I use one on my errand bike. I think it was one of those machine made wheels from Wheel Warehouse or someplace like that, generic cup and cone loose bearing hub for threaded freewheel.
Looks like ERD 603.83, surely that's too big
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Old 11-07-19, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tomtomtom123 View Post
Also, actual ERD might be very different than what the manufacturers or other people say. Different batches might have different dimensions. I had a difference of 2mm from the same model. The freespoke database linked above says the Kinlin XR-22T is 596mm, but the catalog says 588mm. Although spacycles gives 596mm. Another shop gives 595mm.
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s116p3767/KINLIN-XR-22T
https://fairwheelbikes.com/kinlin-xr...less-road-rim/

offset version, but this would lengthen the drive side and reduce the non drive side.
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s116...KINLIN-XR-22RT
That's a little scary, the differences. I'm pretty sure I don't want to move into offset, that would surely require new spokes
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Old 11-07-19, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Some wheelbuilding tools have databases for rim specs and other stuff. Here's the kstoerz rim database, filtered on rims with an ERD of 596-598mm: https://www.kstoerz.com/freespoke/rimfilter.php?erdmin=596&erdmax=598
OK so according to that database, 700C Dyad is actually ERD 598.5, contra the Velocity webpage (597) and Peter White (596)

And it's not like I can accurately measure ERD on a rim that's headed to tacotown

Or even if the rim was true, it's not like I could measure the ERD more accurately than the manufacturer, or Peter White

If I bought a Dyad as a replacement, would I even be able to be confident the ERD would match to within the spoke threads?
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Old 11-07-19, 11:19 AM
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No. you won't know if the ERD matches until you have it in your hands. Different people will give different numbers for the exact same item, depending on how they measure and where they measure to, where they end the spoke in the nipple. Also, some items of a model will have eyelets while another batch of the same model could have no eyelets. Different batches in production could have different dimensions too.

Even if the specs have the same profile height between different models, the ERD could be different due to how deep the bead seat sits in relation to the top of the sidewall. So you can't judge the ERD based on the overall height.

If your rim is that damaged though, I don't know if you'd be able to trust the old spokes. You could consider getting new spokes and nipples.

If you want to continue using the same spokes, you could look under the rim tape to see where the ends are in relation to the nipple on your current rim. I wanted my spokes to end at the bottom of the slot in the top of the nipple, but for some reason, when I built my wheels, they ended up at the top of the nipple and 2 of the spokes was 1 or 2 mm above the top, which meant it bottomed out. But even if it bottomed out and I continued tightening for 1 or 2 threads, i don't think it would make much of a difference. The 2 brass threads at the bottom of the nipple would simply deform to give way to the stainless steel spoke. But most people will tell you not to bottom out the spoke and nipple.

So the ERD of the new rim could possibly be +/-2 to 4mm compared to the old rim and still be acceptable, but depending on how far the old spokes went into the old nipples. But I don't think you want the ends of the spokes going lower than 2mm below above the inner wall of the rim. The bottom of the slot on my nipples are approximately 3mm above the inner wall of my rim.

Also, depending on how much lateral offset are in the holes of the rim, the ends of the spokes may change a little bit.

And when you measure your new rim, you might want to measure all 4 quadrants (take 4 measurements at 0, 90, 180, 270 degrees) and average them, because the rim might not be completely round when not tensioned.

Last edited by tomtomtom123; 11-07-19 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 11-07-19, 11:29 AM
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Peter White says of the Dyad
We never see them developing cracks and they have no eyelets that can loosen. The V shape eliminates the need for reinforcing eyelets at the spoke holes.
so at least that's not a worry

But it sounds like nobody could ever have been successful at swapping out just a rim on the same spokes except through dumb luck
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Old 11-07-19, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
um...

It's a 105 hub, so probably road standard, and it's in a CrossCheck
My cross check is not right spacing, 132.5. Re using old spokes? Good for the long run?
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Old 11-07-19, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
My cross check is not right spacing, 132.5. Re using old spokes? Good for the long run?
Yes I'm assuming I can use the old spokes, otherwise I don't care about ERD

I've never built a wheel before, I figured the easiest way to do it the first time is to tape the old&new rim together, and move the spokes across to the new holes. That way I don't have to worry about lacing.

But because it's a first time, if the experiment is a total failure I don't want to be out a lot of dough
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Old 11-07-19, 03:26 PM
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If it were my wheel, I'd try to reuse the spokes and nipples if they're not gouged up. It doesn't take a lot of side impact to taco a wheel, and per your account, it's just a little bent.
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Old 11-07-19, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
per your account, it's just a little bent.
Yes it's not a taco, it's a warped tostada. None of the spokes on the tight side were broken, and I've loosened them all since (and tried and failed to curb-stomp the rim into close enough to straight to let the spokes do the rest of the work)
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Old 11-07-19, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Yes I'm assuming I can use the old spokes, otherwise I don't care about ERD

I've never built a wheel before, I figured the easiest way to do it the first time is to tape the old&new rim together, and move the spokes across to the new holes. That way I don't have to worry about lacing.

But because it's a first time, if the experiment is a total failure I don't want to be out a lot of dough
The hard part isnít the lacing, you can find all manner of step by step diagrams for that. Getting the spokes tensioned correctly and the wheel true in all three directions can be a challenge.Do you have a truing stand?
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Old 11-07-19, 03:53 PM
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No I have a bicycle and it can be upside down. I also have brake pads that can tell me when the rim is this way or that.

And I have a few cycling friends, probably one of them has a stand I can borrow if I get tired of doing it on the bike.
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Old 11-07-19, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
No I have a bicycle and it can be upside down. I also have brake pads that can tell me when the rim is this way or that.

And I have a few cycling friends, probably one of them has a stand I can borrow if I get tired of doing it on the bike.
Borrow a truing stand. You can make minor lateral adjustments to an already built wheel using your method but to get the wheel round (radial true) and the rim centered relative to the hub (dish) a truing stand is needed.

Even tension is also important, but you can get by without a tensionmeter by feel and sound (don't tighten to the point of stripping nipples, pluck strokes and listen for even sound all the way around). The more spokes you have, the more room for error there is when it comes to tension.

Also, if this is a rear wheel, note that spokes on the drive side will be shorter and higher tension than the ones on the nondrive side in most cases.
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Old 11-08-19, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Some wheelbuilding tools have databases for rim specs and other stuff. Here's the kstoerz rim database, filtered on rims with an ERD of 596-598mm: https://www.kstoerz.com/freespoke/rimfilter.php?erdmin=596&erdmax=598
Very cool answer - thanks for the great reference, Scott. The Dyad data is here: https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/dyad-622 Its a 24mm wide rim, which matches up with the Kinlin XR-22T nicely. But the Kinlin website shows the 32h version as out of stock.

You may just want to bite the bullet and find your best deal on a Dyad rim. One benefit: you know your spokes will fit and you won't waste 20-30 (or more) on new spokes.

If you are willing to get much wider or narrower rims you have more options.

The Alex EN24s look pretty close.

Last edited by WizardOfBoz; 11-08-19 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 11-08-19, 10:35 AM
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Wiz, thx for your PM with the link to the good deal on an actual Dyad. It's ordered, so I guess this thread can be done now (unless others find it useful)
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Old 11-08-19, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Wiz, thx for your PM with the link to the good deal on an actual Dyad. It's ordered, so I guess this thread can be done now (unless others find it useful)
Even if the ERD varies between runs, that's probably the safest bet.
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