Alzerbster

Thanks for the diagram. As the saying goes. Pictures are worth a thousand words.

Alzerbster

Okay, I just used this method. I had .225 for the one link measurement, and 4.756 for ten. Subtracting I got 4.531 for nine links. Should I use .5% as a stretch limit? My measurements show that I have .70% stretch.

tomtomtom123

You should probably replace the chain as soon as possible. The last time I replaced mine when it was somewhere between 0.4% to 0.5% of actual center to center stretch excluding roller wear. It was almost at the border between pass/fail of the Shimano tool, but my other generic tool was showing 0.75% wear since it was including roller wear. The chain was used for around 1.5 months, or I estimated 2000km.

I use KMC chains and they're pretty good.

I'm not an expert, but I read in articles, blogs, and forum threads that a new cassette can usually take up to 3 new chains before needing to replace the cassette, if you replace the chain when it reaches 0.5% stretch. Supposedly the chainring can last longer, but I don't know. 3 years is quite a long time, so I swapped my chainring at the same time as the cassette. If you allow the chain to stretch beyond 0.75%, supposedly you'd be wearing down your cassette and chainring. The Sheldon brown site and other articles elsewhere explain how to check if the cassette and chainring are too worn to accept a new chain, but if it's only 700 miles, then probably simply swapping on the chain should be sufficient. But you can always check the cassette and chainring wear just for the experience.

dsbrantjr

Bike chains that are ridden in the rain have not been degreased first, nor does rain have detergent (Dawn) in it.

Novalite

Chains wear faster when particles (worn off alu, sand) are present between the link parts' contact surfaces.
Oil makes them stick and oil does not dissolve in water.
Soap attaches to oil and makes it dissolve in water, and with oil removed, those particles are freed/don't clump, become mobile and can thus be washed away.
When to use soap depends on the amount of dirt. Oil reduces friction and thus wear, but at the cost of an accumulating particles quantity.

Water, oxidizes steel, rust. Rust occupies more space than steel, and also its poreous, it exposes even more steel, and dries harder, increasing the amount steel that gets oxidized. Salt is worser. Oil forms a film that protects steel from rust.

Thus, tbe goals are keeping a chain dry, hold off foreign particles, and get worn off steel and aluminium (chainring) particles out of the links.

My "regime" is to put a drop oil on the rollers of the chain, from the inside (centrifugal force see later) so on the lower part of the chain, and only in oxidizing situations (rain, salt) with a tooth brush some oil on the sidewards surfaces of the link plates and especially the pin ends.

The next days after riding I see then black (particles) oil spilling out to the outwards edge surfaces of the links, brought there by centrifugal force. I wipe that off, and that is byebye particles.
Then, when the chain becomes too dry from oil (reason the described mechanical degrease), I repeat.

Notes:
- alot oil makes a first fast ride and a next slow ride, due to the ton of dirt on it.
- don't put water on a chain that has salt on it (ex road salt in snow that sticks on it). Salt dissolves in water, becomes as mobile as water, and will then reach the contact surfaces in the links, and cause massive damage in a short time. Salt does not dissolve in oil, so a protecting oil film on the outer surfaces of the links and wiping it off later on will rescue the chain from the garbage bin.
- prevent water condensation on cold surfaces (metal). Stalling a bike in a place with nightly temperature drops will condens water in air (humidity) on the steel, causing oxidation, especially on the places that gravity brings the condensed water to. For ex if you stall the bike against a wall, so tilted, the water will end up on the pin ends, about the weakest points of the chain, ex fretting away the metal of a rivet causing the link plate to detach.
- riding a bike dries the chain just like wind dries up water. And the pedaling force pulls the links abit away from eachother, allowing water and dirt to escape easier due to more room available.
- compressed air blows away the most liquid (water) to leave the dirt immobilized behind, and usually even closer to the deepest places in the chain: the contact surfaces. Selectively wiping it off is slower but better.

/end of blahblah

Alzerbster

Thanks for sharing the method with using calipers Its certainly much easier measuring with calipers than trying to lay any kind of ruler on the chain. Comparing my middle chainring to the two that I hardly ever use, I couldn't see any noticeable wear.

Alzerbster

Guess I don't understand what you are saying. So if you ever think you might get caught in the rain, you should never de-grease your chain? I'm assuming everyone that uses a de-greaser to clean their chain, they then apply lube.

Alzerbster

[QUOTE=Novalite;21202369]Chains wear faster when particles (worn off alu, sand) are present between the link parts' contact surfaces.

Notes:
- compressed air blows away the most liquid (water) to leave the dirt immobilized behind, and usually even closer to the deepest places in the chain: the contact surfaces. Selectively wiping it off is slower but better.

/QUOTE]

So if soap is used, it should remove most of the dirt particles, and the oil that the particles are sticking to. Which I see as a good thing, because it is dirt particles that wear a chain. Question being, does using compressed air afterward remove enough of the water within the chain, so lube can get where it needs to be?

sweeks

Years ago when I got my first chain check tool (Park CC-2) I noticed it wouldn't fit into a new chain. I contacted Park and was told that the tool is calibrated at the wear limit (1%). I've since found that the tool agrees well with other tools and the ruler method for worn chains. There's some technicality about inaccuracy of these kinds of gauges which is supposedly only compensated for in a tool made by Shimano. I have one of those as well, and it agrees with the others. I'm comfortable using any of these to identify a chain that's approaching the end of its useful life, but the ruler method is more accurate.

DaveSSS 

I've never used water, soap or a water soluble degreaser on a chain. I use mineral spirits or white gas camp stove fuel. There are many posts on this subject, explaining how to get many uses from your cleaning solvent. If an oil type lube is used, even diesel fuel works. Gasoline is too stinky and explosive - not recommended.

If you're riding dusty trails, a dry lube is best.

tomtomtom123

My Shimano tool measures 0.40-0.50 while my other tools indicate 0.75 for the same chain, so they do not match. When you measure with those chain tools, you are either relying on whether or not they are bent, or their assumptions on roller thickness (except for the Shimano and Pedros). The most accurate way to measure is with calipers. And taking 2 or 3 samples at different sections of the chain. This method of A-B also cancels out any errors from the calipers (assuming that the measurement is taken in the same way for both A and B).

sweeks

It appears that there's considerable variability in these chain checking modalities. I'm getting 3-4,000 miles on a chain using the Park tool, and I'm on my 4th chain with the same cassette and chainring, so I'm content.

alcjphil

From the OP's first post:

" Probably 98% of those 700 miles have been on crushed limestone trails."

That could have a lot to do with rapid chain wear as grit from the front wheel gets kicked up towards the chain

Novalite

What is "enough"? The less water, the more room for oil, that's it. There isn't like some figure/percent whoms ex or underceeding drastically changes the picture. A rule of thumb could be that if you get hungry while blowing compressed air, it should be dried enough.

Alzerbster

When I first found out I had chain wear after only 7oo miles. My first thought was that the fine grit from crushed limestone trails was the culprit. I was just curious if someone else would mention this, or if someone else rides exclusively crushed limestone trails, and experienced rapid chain wear. Its the reason I included that a large portion of my riding has been on these types of trails. The crushed limestone varies in particle size from stone about half the size of 1B stone, and particles that are dust. After a ride my chins would be covered in grit. I will have to talk to other members of the group that also ride exclusively rail trails. Although I have a hunch that the large majority of them haven't a clue whether their chain is wore or not.

wphamilton

Seems to me that fenders would mitigate this.

Sy Reene

FWIW, Park tool also has a pass/fail tool which is part of the confusion. Basically their 3.2 tool is NOT the one to get. Rather get the CC-4.
The Pedros ChainChecker Plus2 is likewise another one to consider

lubloi

Chain wear is a hot topic, that much is clear! I myself get only about 2-3000 kilometers (so about 2000 miles) out of a chain on the bikes I commute with, and I have to replace the cassettes after two chains. My chains are exposed to rain, dust, and road salt, so they have a pretty tough life, even though I lubricate them almost every week. The claims of 3-5000 miles always seem very high to me.

$800 for a new bike is a lot of money, but for Cannondale it's probaby an entry-level bike, so I wouldn't be surprised if they delivered the bike with a cheap chain and lower-end brake pads. The good news is that these are consumables anyway.

sweeks

A good front mudflap too!

sweeks

Oil and water don't mix, so the new oil will not completely displace the water. It's better to clean the chain with a compatible ("non-polar") solvent such as kerosene or odorless mineral spirits. These can be re-used many times after letting the debris settle out, and what little remains in the chain is displaced by the lubricant. If some remains inside the chain, it's not a big deal because the non-polar solvent is compatible ("miscible") with the oil.

themp

Using the Park 3.2 tool always for me showed that my chain was worn out, where as the Pedro ChainChecker Plus2 showed it was OK. I decided to wait until the Pedro tool showed a worn out chain and I believe this also allowed for the cassette to wear out earlier. So, I came to the conclusion that a chain is cheaper than a cassette and just replace the chain when the Park tool tells me. I know the chain still has some life left, but it is not worth it to me to try and get more 'miles' out of the chain. I believe your gravel trail riding is a factor. It is like sandpaper...

Novalite

If you answer my question "what is enough?" with "completely" then I say that I'm not that maniac to get out the last molecule water.
In the end, I see work on the bike as a hassle, I prefer to do other things, only that reality is that things have to taken some care of in order to avoid even more work / cost.
It's a trade off, and if my some care makes the difference between a $10 instead of a $100 bill, I say it's okay.

Novalite

Yes this made a hell of a difference for me. Done with all the cleaning work ruined after riding through just one mud pool.
My rear frontwheel mudflap is 30 cm high and hangs just a few cm above the ground.
And I mounted a mudflap at the front rearwheel (near bottom bracket) too, at the side of the chain/chainring.
It's only when I have cars right of me, that throw up dirt, that there is no protection. Also dust in the wind, ofcourse.
A complete chain cover isn't possible, there is room nor mount for it.

noglider 

I very rarely clean my chain with solvent. It's too much trouble. I hope the lubricant I add displaces the dirt. I know it doesn't sometimes.

davidad

All I ever use are cheap chains and when properly cleaned they last a long time.