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105 conundrum

Old 11-24-19, 12:45 PM
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suncruiser
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105 conundrum

So I have run into a roadblock here. I want to set my vaya up with a 105 groupset, but I want to keep cable actuated discs. 105 disc groupset is hydraulic. Will the 105 rim levers work with my cable discs?
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Old 11-24-19, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by suncruiser View Post
So I have run into a roadblock here. I want to set my vaya up with a 105 groupset, but I want to keep cable actuated discs. 105 disc groupset is hydraulic. Will the 105 rim levers work with my cable discs?
That would depend on which cable disc brake callipers you currently have and which levers you are currently using with them. Current 105 brake levers have less mechanical advantage than ones from a few generations back. We know what bike you have, but not how it is equipped
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Old 11-25-19, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
That would depend on which cable disc brake callipers you currently have and which levers you are currently using with them. Current 105 brake levers have less mechanical advantage than ones from a few generations back. We know what bike you have, but not how it is equipped
Currently moving from Shimano Claris to the 105 7000 series, and the brakes are going to be TRP Spyres, which will be used with the claris until I get all the new drivetrain components
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Old 11-25-19, 03:09 PM
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Question: Why do you want cable discs? Shimano hydraulics are the best of the best - dead simple setup and zero maintenance, and they stop better than anything else I've tried.
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Old 11-25-19, 05:10 PM
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Hydraulic won't work with cable discs, and as per Wilfred, why would you want to have mechanical discs if the option for hydraulics is available????

Last edited by jimc101; 11-25-19 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 11-25-19, 06:32 PM
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Why in the world would you want to downgrade like that? Hydro is far and away better than mechanical.
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Old 11-25-19, 10:22 PM
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Mechanical disk brakes were designed to replace linear-pull brakes, so they need long-pull levers--levers that pull more cable for less caliper motion. Road brake levers are short-pull. So you might find that 105 levers simply don't pull enough cable to fully actuate those calipers.

One solution might be brake Travel Agents by Problem Solvers (https://problemsolversbike.com/produ...djuster_-_6417). They'll increase the pull on the lever end, but attaching them to the caliper in lieu of a brake noodle where there is no noodle might be a problem.

In earlier days of road disk before fully hydraulic disks became ubiquitous, there were hybrid calipers. These used a fluid reservoir and piston in the caliper that was actuated by a cable. You might ask your local dealer if these are still available. Good luck.
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Old 11-25-19, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier View Post
Question: Why do you want cable discs? Shimano hydraulics are the best of the best - dead simple setup and zero maintenance, and they stop better than anything else I've tried.
Originally Posted by jimc101 View Post
Hydraulic won't work with cable discs, and as per Wilfred, why would you want to have mechanical discs if the option for hydraulics is available????
Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
Why in the world would you want to downgrade like that? Hydro is far and away better than mechanical.
Can't you all take suncruiser' word that:

Originally Posted by suncruiser View Post
I want to keep cable actuated discs.
I mean, there are many reasons to keep with cable actuated:
  1. Cheaper, especially when you already have the calipers
  2. Easier to maintain
  3. Ease of repair, especially when bikepacking/touring and having to carry your tools with you
  4. Possibly more durable
  5. More resistant to fade
  6. Better control of the contact point- how far to pull the levers before the pads contact the discs
  7. etcetera
But really, "I want to keep cable actuated discs," should be reason enough.

Three people chiming in with the same unsolicited advice is arguably worse than mansplaining. Next thing you know, someone's going to say, "You should smile more often."

To answer the original question: yes, the 105 rim levers will work fine with the Spyre calipers, which are made for road pull.

In fact I have 105 5800 levers with a Spyre brake and they're doing fine. They don't grab well (especially in the wet), but that's probably because of the aftermarket pads I'm using. The only issue is that the return spring on the Spyre is pretty strong, so I ground it down
.

Originally Posted by oldbobcat View Post
Mechanical disk brakes were designed to replace linear-pull brakes, so they need long-pull levers--levers that pull more cable for less caliper motion. Road brake levers are short-pull. So you might find that 105 levers simply don't pull enough cable to fully actuate those calipers.
The Spyres are a newfangled thing only introduced six years ago, but they were designed for the pull of road levers, so should not be a problem.
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Old 11-25-19, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat View Post
Mechanical disk brakes were designed to replace linear-pull brakes, so they need long-pull levers--levers that pull more cable for less caliper motion. Road brake levers are short-pull. So you might find that 105 levers simply don't pull enough cable to fully actuate those calipers.
Never going to work given the initail info from the OP, the OP says they have a hydraulic groupset and they are incompatible with anything but hydraulic disc brakes
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Old 11-25-19, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Geekage View Post
Can't you all take suncruiser' word that:



I mean, there are many reasons to keep with cable actuated:
  1. Cheaper, especially when you already have the calipers
  2. Easier to maintain
  3. Ease of repair, especially when bikepacking/touring and having to carry your tools with you
  4. Possibly more durable
  5. More resistant to fade
  6. Better control of the contact point- how far to pull the levers before the pads contact the discs
  7. etcetera
But really, "I want to keep cable actuated discs," should be reason enough.

Three people chiming in with the same unsolicited advice is arguably worse than mansplaining. Next thing you know, someone's going to say, "You should smile more often."

To answer the original question: yes, the 105 rim levers will work fine with the Spyre calipers, which are made for road pull.

In fact I have 105 5800 levers with a Spyre brake and they're doing fine. They don't grab well (especially in the wet), but that's probably because of the aftermarket pads I'm using. The only issue is that the return spring on the Spyre is pretty strong, so I ground it down like this person
Because you can't see my post above, total incompatibility with the parts the OP says they have.
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Old 11-26-19, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jimc101 View Post
Because you can't see my post above, total incompatibility with the parts the OP says they have.
I'm not too sure the OP has what you think they have.

Per their post, the OP has a Vaya. The OP wants a 105 groupset, but does not appear to have bought one. The OP wants "to keep cable actuated discs," insinuating they already have cable discs. The OP makes the statement that "The 105 disc groupset is hydraulic." but again, no mention of having bought it yet. Now, if the OP had said "my 105 disc groupset is hydraulic," then that would be different. But making a statement about something does not imply possession of said object. Me saying "a million one dollar bills is very heavy" does not mean I have one million dollar bills.

And the meat of the post: "Will the 105 rim levers work with my cable discs?" which later revealed in post #3 will be (but are not necessarily currently) TRP Spyres.

The only parts the OP ever claimed to have were Claris components. So, assuming this was an off the shelf Vaya with Claris, the OP has had- and maybe still has- Hayes CX Comp cable calipers.

I do not see anywhere where the OP has claimed to have anything hydraulic.
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Old 11-26-19, 12:21 AM
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Is it not true that cable brakes pull, and hydraulic brakes push?
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Old 11-26-19, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
Is it not true that cable brakes pull, and hydraulic brakes push?
And Delta brakes suck.
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Old 11-26-19, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Geekage View Post
I mean, there are many reasons to keep with cable actuated:
  1. Cheaper, especially when you already have the calipers
Obviously something is cheaper if you don't have to buy it. But OP doesn't say they have calipers. The price difference between a set of 105 hydraulic levers and calipers, and a set of 105 cable leversd and a set of TRP spyres is not much, if anything.


Originally Posted by Geekage View Post
2. Easier to maintain
No, they are not. Hydraulics are easier to maintain by a mile. Cable discs require periodic adjustments. Hydaulics adjust themselves. Furthermore, a hydraulic line is sealed and will last longer before needing replacement than a cable.

Originally Posted by Geekage View Post
3. Ease of repair, especially when bikepacking/touring and having to carry your tools with you
I'll give you this one, but mainly because the tools required are easier to carry. Once you have bled a hydraulic brake you see that it is not significantly more complicated than changing a cable. It is a slightly longer process, though.

Originally Posted by Geekage View Post
I mean, there are many reasons to keep with cable actuated:
4. Possibly more durable
Possibly? What gives you this idea? All good quality off-road bikes have hydraulics now, and there is no epidemic of hoses getting caught on fence posts or whatever you think causes them to be less durable.

Originally Posted by Geekage View Post
I mean, there are many reasons to keep with cable actuated:
5. More resistant to fade
Perhaps if you were to require braking to the point of boiling the fluid, but that doesn't happen on bicycles. Driving a truck down a mountain pass, perhaps (although trucks still use hydraulics), but not bicycles. Fade in bicycles is caused by overheating of the rotors and pads, and the added mass of fluid in the caliper might make them less prone to overheating, but in reality, neither is better than the other.

Originally Posted by Geekage View Post
I mean, there are many reasons to keep with cable actuated:
6. Better control of the contact point- how far to pull the levers before the pads contact the discs
Also dead simple adjustment. Easier than with cables, actually.

Originally Posted by Geekage View Post
I mean, there are many reasons to keep with cable actuated:
7. etcetera
Not really an argument. If you have an argument to make, then make it.
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Old 11-26-19, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat View Post
Mechanical disk brakes were designed to replace linear-pull brakes, so they need long-pull levers--levers that pull more cable for less caliper motion. Road brake levers are short-pull. So you might find that 105 levers simply don't pull enough cable to fully actuate those calipers.
There are loads of road-lever-compatible disc calipers available.
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Old 11-26-19, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier View Post
Obviously something is cheaper if you don't have to buy it. But OP doesn't say they have calipers. The price difference between a set of 105 hydraulic levers and calipers, and a set of 105 cable leversd and a set of TRP spyres is not much, if anything.
The OP says they "want to keep cable actuated discs." (emphasis mine) This certainly sounds like they already have cable disc calipers, which, as I pointed out in post #11 , if you infer from them saying they have a Vaya and Claris components, means they probably have Hayes CX Comp cable disc calipers. Even if they aren't the Hayes, Claris is only cable actuated, not hydraulic, so they must have some sort of cable discs if they have any brakes at all.

If you have an argument to make, then make it.
No. I don't have any argument to make. Why are you arguing that the OP should get hydraulics when they have already stated that want to keep cable actuated?

Is it too much to ask that you respect the OP's preference for cable discs?
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Old 11-26-19, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Geekage View Post
Is it too much to ask that you respect the OP's preference for cable discs?
if someone asks a question on this forum (on the internet in general), providing a suggestion that they consider other options is not 'disrespect'. Many of us here have years of experience with the subject and we answer accordingly. You suggesting that we are somehow committing a wrong against the OP for making such suggestions is more disrespectful than us telling the OP in a polite manner that they may not have all the information needed, based on our experience.
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Old 11-26-19, 05:29 PM
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Back to OP's question, yes 105 mechanical levers will work with Spyre brakes. I have a bike with this configuration, no issues.
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Old 11-26-19, 08:54 PM
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Thanks for all the input guys. Yes, I have thought about just bumping up to hydraulic brakes, but hydraulic brakes have a distinct problem (in my personal experience) that I'm trying to actively avoid. It looks like I'm going to be stationed up at fort Wainwright, and I have found from living in Fairbanks before that hydraulics dislike extreme cold. I didn't stop riding until about -30f before, and I have no intention of changing that when I get up there again. Yes, hydraulics are much more powerful, easier to adjust and have much more modulation. This is why I chose the spyres, the dual pull will to some degree give me some of that modulation and power. It is actually going to be equipped with the spyres by the end of the week, it's at my LBS to have them and the new brake cable installed, and will be running on the claris equipment for the next few months until I piece together my new drivetrain. Thank you to all who have defended my decision to stick to mechanical brakes. I'm trying to put together my ideal machine here, and I'm pretty set on the way I want it to be set up. Really looking forward to the change from Claris to 105, and the new wheelset I will eventually acquire as well.
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Old 11-27-19, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by suncruiser View Post
Thanks for all the input guys. Yes, I have thought about just bumping up to hydraulic brakes, but hydraulic brakes have a distinct problem (in my personal experience) that I'm trying to actively avoid. It looks like I'm going to be stationed up at fort Wainwright, and I have found from living in Fairbanks before that hydraulics dislike extreme cold. I didn't stop riding until about -30f before, and I have no intention of changing that when I get up there again. Yes, hydraulics are much more powerful, easier to adjust and have much more modulation. This is why I chose the spyres, the dual pull will to some degree give me some of that modulation and power. It is actually going to be equipped with the spyres by the end of the week, it's at my LBS to have them and the new brake cable installed, and will be running on the claris equipment for the next few months until I piece together my new drivetrain. Thank you to all who have defended my decision to stick to mechanical brakes. I'm trying to put together my ideal machine here, and I'm pretty set on the way I want it to be set up. Really looking forward to the change from Claris to 105, and the new wheelset I will eventually acquire as well.
What kind of bike are you looking at riding? Having been there myself, I know what extreme cold can do to metals, etc. Personally I would be riding a Fatbike in the winter up there. I wonder if the fatbike community in AK all run mechanicals? Interesting question.
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Old 11-27-19, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
What kind of bike are you looking at riding? Having been there myself, I know what extreme cold can do to metals, etc. Personally I would be riding a Fatbike in the winter up there. I wonder if the fatbike community in AK all run mechanicals? Interesting question.
From what I saw the grand majority of bikes ran mechanical, I'm assuming for the same reason. Most common was BB7s, one or two had Spykes.

I'm going to use my standard 2 bikes year round. They will both be equipped with studded tires that will fit under the fenders. My Trek District 8 and my Salsa Vaya Claris that won't be Claris anymore
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Old 11-28-19, 12:57 AM
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Got her back today...

Gotta say, I like the new looks! Spyres and the new version 2 piece rotors look good together. Now onto the 105 groupset.


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