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Rim replacement help wanted

Old 01-05-20, 03:26 PM
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Chuckles1
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Rim replacement help wanted

I'm setting up my 2007 Motobecane Fantom Cross with 700x28c road tires to use mostly on paved roads. In doing so, I've become concerned that the rear rim (cantilever) braking surface is likely worn out. I say likely because this is the first time I've encountered this, so I'm new to this issue. I've looked at rims on eBay, and the varieties are overwhelming. Would appreciate recommendations on replacement rim, keeping in mind the bike cost $675 including shipping twelve years ago. I'd like to spend no more than $75 for a rim. I'm pretty sure I could change out the rim with help from Sheldon Brown and other tutorials, as I have dished and straightened wheels.

Here's what I know about my current rim: Vuelta XRP Pro, 24 hole, about 25mm wide OD, about 31mm height. Bike is 9 speed, so normal dropout width, about 135mm. Need to know what to call the spoke pattern, and what are the critical dimensions to insure new rim would work with current spokes. Here's what she looks like.




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Old 01-05-20, 03:53 PM
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CliffordK
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Why do you think the rim is worn out?

I see some wear on the brake track, but it is difficult to discern how much based on the photos.

Do you see some concave wear on the brake track? How deep? Something else?

It appears as if you have an odd paired 2-cross lacing pattern.

To reuse the spokes, you'll need to find a rim with the same ERD. You can either go by factory specs, or you can disassemble your wheel and measure it. Or, perhaps measure the nipple to nipple distance if you can discern the nipple length.

I think the paired lacing shortens the spokes slightly. With more even spoke distribution, you'll need a rim with slightly smaller ERD, I think, but I don't know how to calculate the difference. Perhaps figure out where the spokes would go if evenly distributed, and calculate the difference in distance to the bottom of the rim, or perhaps any representative point on the rim.

If the ERD is too short, you can toss in nipple washers to slightly increase the ERD.

Where do the current spokes end with respect to the end of the nipples. Ideally, when tight and true, the nipples should extend through the entire nipple & slot, and be flat with the bottom of the nipple.
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Old 01-05-20, 04:40 PM
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jimc101
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You have a factory wheel, with a proprietary rim, unless you can get another (identical) rim from Vuelta (highly unlikely) if you are that concerned about the braking surface, scrap the wheel, and get a new one.

Cliffords idea to re-use the spokes is nice, but realistically, it's going to be far more effort than it will ever be worth in either time or money terms to even attempt to re-build a proprietary wheel like that. You could possibly re-use the hub, but you would still be looking at a low spoke count wheel, which is generally better left to professional wheel builders/manufactures.

Thinking that if you really want to replace the rim, your need to up your budget to a full wheel.

One thing in your post that doesn't make much sense is the OLD measurement you have quoted, you say it's a cross bike, yet you say it has a 135mm OLD, that sounds wrong, as rim brake hubs for road (and CX) bikes from the mid 90s to today all have a 130mm OLD
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Old 01-05-20, 04:54 PM
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If you Google "images of bicycle rim wear", you will see several examples of worn rims (for example THIS). In this video clip (
), the recommendation is to replace the rim when it wears to less than one millimeter thick at the brake track. A good tool for this measurement is a "dental crown thickness gauge" (EXAMPLES). In my experience (3 or 4 rim replacements), the brake on the affected rim will begin to "thump" when it's applied, as the rim begins to expand under the pressure of the air in the tire. This is a good time to replace the rim!
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Old 01-05-20, 07:56 PM
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Clarification

Originally Posted by jimc101 View Post
Thinking that if you really want to replace the rim, your need to up your budget to a full wheel.

One thing in your post that doesn't make much sense is the OLD measurement you have quoted, you say it's a cross bike, yet you say it has a 135mm OLD, that sounds wrong, as rim brake hubs for road (and CX) bikes from the mid 90s to today all have a 130mm OLD
I was afraid I'd have to replace the wheel, since I haven't had any luck finding an exact replacement. And I likely didn't measure the dropout properly; I went from inside of one to outside of the other, and it was about 137 after i converted inches to millimeters. I recalled, incorrectly i guess, that the standard was 135 rather than 130, so i said 135. I suspect it's 130mm inside to inside.

Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Why do you think the rim is worn out?

I see some wear on the brake track, but it is difficult to discern how much based on the photos.

Do you see some concave wear on the brake track? How deep? Something else?

It appears as if you have an odd paired 2-cross lacing pattern.
Yes, the track is concave, and the grooves and dimples are long gone. I've heard it's time to replace when that happens. Also, I bent the lip of the rim installing my first (and hopefully last) foldable tire. What a nightmare! Thought i'd try one just to broaden my horizons; never again unless packing for trip to Timbuctoo...
So now I'm thinking new wheel, or maybe wait until symptoms arise. I don't want to put a Tesla wheel on a Toyota... maybe low end Shimano?
I'm not a stickler for light weight, so are higher spoke counts desirable?
Thanks for replies.
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Old 01-05-20, 08:08 PM
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Higher spoke counts..... depends on your weight, type of spokes, wether you are riding with it loaded or not etc.
Generally speaking a rear 28 will be fine for most with some high quality spokes. If there are exceptions you might wanna go with more.
I am 165lbs, dont carry stuff on the back of my bike and generally use 24 hole rims.
Hope that helps

james

www.buckyrides.com
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Old 01-05-20, 08:43 PM
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That looks like a Continental Gatorskin. Some people like them, some don't. I've had generally good luck with them. After having rusted beads, I've come to like the foldable tires.

130/131mm is the current road standard (for quick release), and has been that for about 25 years or so.
135 was the MTB standard since at least the early 90's.

I'm not sure that Cyclocross has ever been 100% standardized, and would go by the actual measurements of your old wheel and frame.

Something like this would be a low cost moderate quality wheel.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wheel-Maste...l/312916921354

As far as spoke count, I don't know. You've managed to wear out the brake track before other wheel damage. That says a lot.

If you are > 200 lbs, or carry a lot of gear, then go for the greater number of spokes.
If you are lighter, or carrying minimal gear, then it probably won't make much difference.



What is the depth of rim that you have? It looks like your brake has worn below the brake track, and is deceiving.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mach1-Versu...4/362545222617
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Old 01-05-20, 10:28 PM
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Jeff Wills
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Originally Posted by sweeks View Post
If you Google "images of bicycle rim wear", you will see several examples of worn rims (for example THIS). In this video clip (Rim Wear), the recommendation is to replace the rim when it wears to less than one millimeter thick at the brake track. A good tool for this measurement is a "dental crown thickness gauge" (EXAMPLES). In my experience (3 or 4 rim replacements), the brake on the affected rim will begin to "thump" when it's applied, as the rim begins to expand under the pressure of the air in the tire. This is a good time to replace the rim!
In my experience- waiting for the "thump-thump-thump" on braking is too late. Many years ago I felt my rim thump at the start of a ride. Ten miles later it let go with a bang:


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Old 01-06-20, 09:50 AM
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Buying a new wheel

I'm 160lbs. So I guess I can use most any spoke count, the more the merrier i gather? How about rim height (or depth, if you prefer)? I'm thinking an aero, double wall rim would be in keeping with a cyclocross bike, even though its my road bike now that i have another gravel bike.
Listings often say 8/9/10 speed Shimano; would these fit my 9 speed with Shimano cassette? Just don't want to make any rookie mistakes when ordering. Any tips or a checklist on what to look for are welcome.
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Old 01-06-20, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuckles1 View Post
I'm 160lbs. So I guess I can use most any spoke count, the more the merrier i gather? How about rim height (or depth, if you prefer)? I'm thinking an aero, double wall rim would be in keeping with a cyclocross bike, even though its my road bike now that i have another gravel bike.
Listings often say 8/9/10 speed Shimano; would these fit my 9 speed with Shimano cassette? Just don't want to make any rookie mistakes when ordering. Any tips or a checklist on what to look for are welcome.
Just curious what you would estimate the mileage to be on that Vuelta rim? Also, I’m curious which brake pads you are running. Since you already have the Vuelta wheels, did you try contacting Vuelta to see if anything can be done? Weighing in at just #160 and having heavy rear rim sidewall wear makes me wonder if you ride in the rain a lot or do a lot of heavy downhill braking.

Any rear wheel that says “8,9,10 speed” is going to be compatible with a 9 speed cassette. But you still don’t know for sure if your cyclocross frame has 135mm spacing or not. It sounds like it is, indeed 135mm spacing which would require you to limit your search for replacement hubs or complete rims to ones with this spacing or be prepared to swap out the rear axle for a wider one with more spacers. Vintage Shimano XTR, Deore XT non-disc hubs that are spaced 135 mm locknut to locknut rear can be found on eBay, often at great prices.

The rate of aluminum sidewall wear is something I’m also curious about. I would imagine that some rim brands use softer aluminum that wears away faster.

If you know you ride in the rain a lot, you might switch brake pads to a softer compound such as the Kool-Stop salmon inserts that a lot of people really like around here. Just be prepared to replace them twice as often. I’m using some yellow colored aftermarket Shimano compatible pads from an eBay seller out of Akron, Ohio and really like them for just the right combination of things you want in a good brake pad (squeal free, strong braking, doesn’t seem too grindy on the sidewalls).

If you you really want maximum rim brake sidewall durability you could always seek out rims with ceramic coating. I know that Mavic made such rims in the past, not sure if they still do or not. I’ve also seen where November Bikes is using a ceramic coated rim for some of their custom wheel builds - I want to say the brand is “Air Force” (? - I know it is something like this).

Anyway, this is a good topic. Worthy of a rigorous discussion. Frankly, I’m quite excited to be about to start riding my first ever disc road bike. The reality of not having to worry about machined sidewalls is something I really look forward to.

Last edited by masi61; 01-06-20 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 01-06-20, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuckles1 View Post
Also, I bent the lip of the rim installing my first (and hopefully last) foldable tire. What a nightmare!
Don't that as being a common issue with all foldable tires, more a case of some tire and rim combinations just don't work, some do perfectly, sounds like you identified a combination that didn't work on your first try!
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Old 01-06-20, 12:52 PM
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First step is to measure the dropout width correctly, which is inside to inside of your frame. Then measure the actual width of the current hub that you have, which is outside to outside of the locknuts on the hub axle.
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Old 01-06-20, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills View Post
In my experience- waiting for the "thump-thump-thump" on braking is too late.
I may have been lucky! Or maybe it's because the rims I've had the experience with are 20" (406) with relatively low tire pressure (50-60 PSI). I've had this happen on 3 or 4 wheels, all rear wheels, especially those ridden in the winter on bikes with rim brakes. FWIW, once I equipped my winter bike with a rear roller brake, I stopped having this problem.

Side view of "wide spot".


Radial view of "wide spot".
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