Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Paul Minimoto brake squawk: any solutions?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Paul Minimoto brake squawk: any solutions?

Old 02-09-20, 04:58 PM
  #1  
sapporoguy
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 118

Bikes: 2000 Santana Sovereign SE; 2005 Co-Motion Speedster; Kona Kilauea with various dorky commuter accouterments; Mercier Kilo TT fixie; Burley Fladbed trailer for groceries

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Paul Minimoto brake squawk: any solutions?

I really wanted to love my pricey new Paul Minimoto brakes. I put them on the front of our 2005 Co-Motion Speedster tandem last fall, hoping for improved braking.
SQUAWK!
I can't get rid of itóa piercing high-db screech that startles passersby. Iíve read all the Minimoto-squeak threads I can find on the forum and tried all tricks. None works.
I emailed Paul 3 timesóno response.
Anyone got any solutions?
Ultegra brifters. Velocity Dyad rim. Jagwire cable.
I'd previously had on this bike:
-Shimano V-brakes with a Travel Agent: just OK braking; no squeak.
-Shimano mini-Vs: improved braking somewhat; no squeak.
-Installed Minimotos per instructions. SQUAWK!
What I've tried with the Minimotos:
-Set Salmon Koolstop Thinline pads provided by Paul per instructions on the pad package (flush, given the little wing thing in the back that should give automatic toe-in). SQUAWK!
-Gave them 1mm toe-in (gap in back, using a feeler gauge for accuracy). SQUAWK!
-Gave them 2mm toe-in. SQUAWK!
-Sanded the pads lightly. No squeal for about 10 miles, then back to SQUAWK!
-Installed the black Shimano integrated pads that worked quietly on the Shimano mini-Vs. SQUAWK!
-Installed Shimano cartridge-style unit with salmon Koolstop inserts that don't squeal on my commuter bike. SQUAWK!
-On the above non-standard pads, tried toe-in of 0mm, 1mm, 2mm. SQUAWK, SQUAWK, SQUAWK!
Solution for now:
-
Put the Paul-provided Koolstops on the inexpensive Shimano mini-Vs and reinstalled; zero squeal.
-Put the Minimotos in purgatory, in a Ziploc bag on workbench.
Let me know what I'm doing wrong! I really do want to love the Minimotos!
sapporoguy is offline  
Old 02-10-20, 06:06 AM
  #2  
DorkDisk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Kips Bay, NY
Posts: 1,799

Bikes: Ritchey Swiss Cross | Teesdale Kona Hot | Haro Extreme | Specialized Stumpjumper Comp | Cannondale F1000 | Shogun 1000 | Cannondale M500 | Norco Charger | Marin Muirwoods 29er | Hiawatha 3sp | Shogun Kaze | Breezer Lightning

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 413 Post(s)
Liked 537 Times in 286 Posts
Originally Posted by sapporoguy View Post
I really wanted to love my pricey new Paul Minimoto brakes. I put them on the front of our 2005 Co-Motion Speedster tandem last fall, hoping for improved braking.
SQUAWK!
I can't get rid of itóa piercing high-db screech that startles passersby. Iíve read all the Minimoto-squeak threads I can find on the forum and tried all tricks. None works.
I emailed Paul 3 timesóno response.
Anyone got any solutions?
Ultegra brifters. Velocity Dyad rim. Jagwire cable.
I'd previously had on this bike:
-Shimano V-brakes with a Travel Agent: just OK braking; no squeak.
-Shimano mini-Vs: improved braking somewhat; no squeak.
-Installed Minimotos per instructions. SQUAWK!
What I've tried with the Minimotos:
-Set Salmon Koolstop Thinline pads provided by Paul per instructions on the pad package (flush, given the little wing thing in the back that should give automatic toe-in). SQUAWK!
-Gave them 1mm toe-in (gap in back, using a feeler gauge for accuracy). SQUAWK!
-Gave them 2mm toe-in. SQUAWK!
-Sanded the pads lightly. No squeal for about 10 miles, then back to SQUAWK!
-Installed the black Shimano integrated pads that worked quietly on the Shimano mini-Vs. SQUAWK!
-Installed Shimano cartridge-style unit with salmon Koolstop inserts that don't squeal on my commuter bike. SQUAWK!
-On the above non-standard pads, tried toe-in of 0mm, 1mm, 2mm. SQUAWK, SQUAWK, SQUAWK!
Solution for now:
-
Put the Paul-provided Koolstops on the inexpensive Shimano mini-Vs and reinstalled; zero squeal.
-Put the Minimotos in purgatory, in a Ziploc bag on workbench.
Let me know what I'm doing wrong! I really do want to love the Minimotos!
After cleaning the rim with alcohol, try reverse toe in. As in, the rear hits the rim first
DorkDisk is offline  
Old 02-10-20, 06:10 AM
  #3  
mtreloar
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Paul Minimoto brake squawk: any solutions?

I have the same experience, although I have not tried the many 'solutions' you have. I will try the reverse toe-in suggestion once the snow disappears in the frozen north.
mtreloar is offline  
Old 02-10-20, 08:28 AM
  #4  
WizardOfBoz
Generally bewildered
 
WizardOfBoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 2,833

Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 6.9, 1999 LeMond Zurich, 1978 Schwinn Superior

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Liked 254 Times in 191 Posts
Let's review: two cyclists, same experience. One cyclist has tried just about all solutions including trading out brakes to test the brake pads.

The OP's actions (kudos for your patience, sir!) strongly reflect a bias towards "installation error". That may be possible, but I would start to suspect "design flaw" or "manufacturing defect"?

If you watch the Paul video: https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/compon...akes/minimoto/ it may interesting. First, make sure that you've installed as shown in the pic below and on the video. For example, note that the long part of the brake arm goes to the rear. And make sure that you have the o-ring behind the brake arm. Assuming you've done this.

The video discusses the fact that some bikes (e.g. Vanilla bikes) have what they call a permanent pivot. This is a piece of bar stock that is threaded on the exterior on one end, and on the interior on the other end. The exterior threads into the bike frame and is silver soldered in, apparentlly. The other end has the brake pivot machined in. So with the permanent pivot, you don't use the removeable pivot shown in the pic below. If you had permanent pivots and your bike had threaded pivot receptacles, this would probably be a way to go: you reduce the pivot length (the brake arm pivots closer to the frame, with less pivot lever arm) and the pivot itself is more rigid, being a solid piece of steel. IF the Paul brakes don't work with normal pivot studs, that's a design defect. Also, looking at the brake design, it looks like their design machines a bit too much metal off the arm near the pivot. That's a highly speculative statement on my part, I admit. But squawks are caused by vibration and skinnier parts vibrate more easily that thick parts. Be interesting to compare the metal mass with this brake and another design that is known for not squawking (anyone have a candidate?). If anyone uses these brakes without a permanent pivot and doesn't have squawks, this may be encouraging to the OP.

If you don't have a permanent pivot (and their video states that they're not making any more) then you'd have to make sure that pivot in the pic below has very tight tolerances with the mounting stud, and with the brake arm itself. If the factory drilled out the pivots or the brake arms a bit too much (for example, if the drill on their CNC machine was sharpened a tiny bit off center) or if they turned down the pivot exterior a bit too much, then you have some slack in the mechanical assembly. No amount of shop tricks will fix that problem. It's a manufacturing defect.

I'd write them and ask for a Return Authorization number, telling them you are going to have your credit card charges reversed. This may, uh, motivate them to call you. But be kind. This seems to me to be a small shop. They many not be taking your calls because there's an illness or death in the family.


Last edited by WizardOfBoz; 02-10-20 at 08:43 AM.
WizardOfBoz is offline  
Old 06-10-21, 05:09 PM
  #5  
corwin1968
Senior Member
 
corwin1968's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 19 Times in 13 Posts
I also have horrible squealing with a mini-moto on the front of my bike. I did get it to a point where it wouldn't squeal but once I needed to make an adjustment, back to squealing.

Also, the right tension adjuster won't stay tight and the right brake arm beings to lose tension. I've tightened it so tight I was worried I might damage the canti-stud.

If I could replace the brake (the "pivot" won't come off the canti stud), I would have put back on the much superior Shimano Deore V-brake a long time ago.

Luckily, I only bought one Paul brake. I had in mind to buy more of his products because he seems like a good guy and I like what he's doing in the parts world, but after my experience with the moto-lite, I've decided I have no need for any "bling" on my bike.
corwin1968 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.