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Old 03-02-20, 07:19 PM
  #1  
mitchmellow62
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Helpful opinions requested

I was dismantling a newly acquired '99 Schwinn Peloton today. It's rough but rebuildable and I've been excited to have my first 853 frame. However, when I removed the shifter cable stops on the downtube I got a little "surprise" that I need advice on how to best fix. At some time the boss loosened from the frame and the previous owner chose to reattach it using a sheet metal screw



Here are my thoughts:
1. The boss looks ok and could be soldered/brazed back in place. I am a two hour drive from Minneapolis MN and I'm sure I could find someone competent.
2. Alternatively, I could heat and remove the boss on the opposite side and substitute an adaptor like Origin8 sells. The "band" type that goes around the downtube. I think I prefer this but am uncertain whether my propane torch will heat the other boss enough for removal.

I realize either method will ruin some paint. These bikes were famous for fragile paint so its really rough anyway and a repaint is probably in order. Also, do you think the hole in the downtube was there at manufacture or drilled by the previous owner? Should I be concerned about it?

I'm interested in opinions/advice on my two proposed solutions and in any other solutions.

Thanks to all. (Oh, and I know that I should replace the aluminum fork with carbon.)
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Old 03-02-20, 08:21 PM
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Unless you want to get it brazed back on (best repair) you may be able to use the cannondale kit.

Source for vintage Cannondale replaceable shifter bosses?

Broken Cannondale Shifter Boss
https://www.cycle-frames.com/LEVER-BOSS/
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Old 03-02-20, 09:06 PM
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I doubt that the hole in the DT will become a problem for a while, if ever. Just the same if the frame is to be a long term keeper then both a repaint and addressing the DT issues is the best thing to do. The hole was most likely done by the person who "repaired" the braze on, I haven't seen lever bosses with bottomless holes (excepting the mentioned Cannondale "bolt through").

Were I to be approached for this no way would I bother with the OEM braze on, why clean when a new one is only a few dollars and clean already? It looks like there was nearly no filler between the OEM boss and the tube. Generally this faulty brazing is limited to the one spot. Just the same having experienced eyes look over the rest of the frame isn't a bad idea.

If a lever boss was to be, properly, brazed in place this would reinforce the hole and be sufficient as a long term repair.
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Old 03-03-20, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mitchmellow62 View Post
2. Alternatively, I could heat and remove the boss on the opposite side and substitute an adaptor like Origin8 sells. The "band" type that goes around the downtube. I think I prefer this but am uncertain whether my propane torch will heat the other boss enough for removal.
Your propane torch would probably get it off but you'd have to remove a lot of paint. I'd therefore just cut the boss off. Get as close as you can to the frame with a cut-off wheel on a Dremel or angle grinder and then just sand it down carefully the rest of the way with a flap disk. Now you only have a small area to touch up and which will be covered by the band-on anyway.
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Old 03-03-20, 04:50 AM
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Your propane torch won't generate enough heat to remove a brazed on shifter boss. If it was originally brazed with silver, using a MAPP gas cylinder with your torch would work. If the original was brazed with brass/bronze, neither propane or MAPP will generate enough heat to remove it. If you really want to save the frame and repaint it, find a framebuilder that can properly braze a boss over that hole.
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Old 03-03-20, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by guy153 View Post
Your propane torch would probably get it off but you'd have to remove a lot of paint. I'd therefore just cut the boss off. Get as close as you can to the frame with a cut-off wheel on a Dremel or angle grinder and then just sand it down carefully the rest of the way with a flap disk. Now you only have a small area to touch up and which will be covered by the band-on anyway.
This would be my choice, but using a file instead of a flap wheel for the final removal.
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Old 03-06-20, 08:46 PM
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As Andy suggests, re-brazing it on is the best solution. It will strengthen the frame around the hole drilled into the down tube. If you are going to keep it and ride it it will be a sweet ride and worth fixing correctly. And if you don't the frame will likely be a bit weaker because of the drilled hole. Grinding ad putting a band on boss set will again weaken the frame a bit and create a stress point in the lightweight tube. HTH. Smiles, MH
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Old 03-07-20, 09:44 AM
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Will brazing the 853 tubing change the strength of the area affected?
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Old 03-07-20, 07:59 PM
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Yes it will. If the temp isn't high enough the affected area will not go through the "air hardening" this tube set is designed to do. IIRC this set was primarily intended for welding. However many 853 frames have been brass brazed and silver brazed with no wide spread failures.Andy
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Old 03-08-20, 08:19 AM
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I truly appreciate everyone's opinion. Unfortunately my wife often tells me that I often only half listen, lol. So here's "solution" 3:
1. Have a local welder spot weld the hole. I've used a local welder to repair a thin metal exhaust pipe and muffler recently. He did a great job. Of course, this would depend on his confidence level once explained to him. I'd file the spot weld flush. 853 is air hardening and the welding shouldn't weaken the tube(I think?). I also think the heat related destruction of paint could be less than brazing.
2. Carefully remove the remaining shifter boss with 4 inch grinder and file.
3. Install a clamp-on Origin8 dual cable stop (I happen to have one that fits). It won't have cable adjusters but I use friction shifters so they are not needed..
4. Touch up paint as best I can. Build and ride this summer. Consider paint next winter.

Obviously, I'm not looking to restore this bike to original. I'm looking for a good 853 frame to ride.

Is this crazy? Is welding the hole overkill? Just leave the hole alone for this season? I'm getting lazier as I age and the more I think about sourcing, the one way 2 hour drive, the logistics and the time involved with a frame builder/repairer in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area the less enthusiastic I become. The welder could probably do this on Monday. It's getting warmer and I should have started this project a month earlier!

Thanks again for the collective wisdom.
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Old 03-08-20, 08:40 AM
  #11  
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Exhaust tubing is typically 16ga (0.065") or 18ga (0.049") Reynolds 853 is listed at 0.4mm (0.0157") so quite a bit thinner.
Got a lot of confidence in your guy?
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Old 03-08-20, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Exhaust tubing is typically 16ga (0.065") or 18ga (0.049") Reynolds 853 is listed at 0.4mm (0.0157") so quite a bit thinner.
Got a lot of confidence in your guy?
Excellent point. I think I'm going to leave the hole alone, remove the remaining shifter boss and use the clamp-on dual cable stop mounted over the hole. I'll ride this summer and make decisions next winter. Thanks to all.
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Old 03-09-20, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mitchmellow62 View Post
I truly appreciate everyone's opinion. Unfortunately my wife often tells me that I often only half listen, lol. So here's "solution" 3:
1. Have a local welder spot weld the hole. I've used a local welder to repair a thin metal exhaust pipe and muffler recently. He did a great job. Of course, this would depend on his confidence level once explained to him. I'd file the spot weld flush. 853 is air hardening and the welding shouldn't weaken the tube(I think?). I also think the heat related destruction of paint could be less than brazing.
2. Carefully remove the remaining shifter boss with 4 inch grinder and file.
3. Install a clamp-on Origin8 dual cable stop (I happen to have one that fits). It won't have cable adjusters but I use friction shifters so they are not needed..
4. Touch up paint as best I can. Build and ride this summer. Consider paint next winter.

Obviously, I'm not looking to restore this bike to original. I'm looking for a good 853 frame to ride.

Is this crazy? Is welding the hole overkill? Just leave the hole alone for this season? I'm getting lazier as I age and the more I think about sourcing, the one way 2 hour drive, the logistics and the time involved with a frame builder/repairer in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area the less enthusiastic I become. The welder could probably do this on Monday. It's getting warmer and I should have started this project a month earlier!

Thanks again for the collective wisdom.
Sounds like a good plan to me. I don't think you need to fill those holes-- they're no worse than bottle cage holes and they're probably in the thicker, butted, part of the tube. But filling them is also good. I would use TIG with silicon-bronze filler rod. I don't know whether this is good or bad from an air-hardening 853 magic point of view but it's a good way to fill a hole without melting away more of the tube or putting in too much heat, and the silicon bronze is very easy to sand flat. But you can see what your welding guy recommends. If his plan is to just buzz it with the MIG I would probably think twice about it.
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Old 03-09-20, 04:14 PM
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Shouldn't a clamp-on solution at least include a brazed-on stop (just a bump stop) on the bottom of thee downtube, to keep the band from sliding down?
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Old 03-09-20, 05:45 PM
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Just a thought but maybe it was always a bolt on. Is there a hole on the other side.
If so run a bolt straight thru. Which is what I did with a cadd3.
If not there are or where clamps on eBay for different size tubing. I forget the specific name of the clamp but they where homemade. Tidier than some of the offerings.
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Old 03-09-20, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
Shouldn't a clamp-on solution at least include a brazed-on stop (just a bump stop) on the bottom of thee downtube, to keep the band from sliding down?
You don't need a stop if it's tight enough.
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Old 03-12-20, 05:09 PM
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The deed is done! The hole continues to exist. The other shifter boss was removed with 4" angle grinder and a hand file. The clamp-on cable stop is over the hole. Home Depot and Sherwin Williams couldn't color match the paint and the best paint match I could find amongst hobby and auto touch up paints isn't that good. So as it stands, this is currently about a fifteen foot bike (looks good 15 feet away but starts getting a little ugly at 10 feet). Will be good enough for the season and then decisions can be made next winter. Thanks again to all.
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