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Derailleur cable arm jams against 11-46 cassette biggest 3 cogs

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Derailleur cable arm jams against 11-46 cassette biggest 3 cogs

Old 03-11-20, 11:15 AM
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motorapido
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Derailleur cable arm jams against 11-46 cassette biggest 3 cogs

The derailleur cable arm touches/jams against the sunrace 11-46 cassette on a late 1970s road frame I'm converting to 1x10 (had been running this frame with an alfine 11 internal gear hub last few years). The derailleur mount is integrated into the dropouts and not detachable. Derailleur is brand new Shimano deore shadow m6000 and the b-link is attached to the derailleur just like it came out of the box. Wheel was built by a reputable, experienced bike shop. Shimano freehub is brand new. Cassette installed properly. Is this a problem of a 40 year old frame with integrated derailleur mount not being compatible with a shadow series derailleur? Years ago when I updated the bike to a 10 speed cassette 11-36, whatever derailleur I was using worked just fine. Do I need a goatlink? I haven't installed the chain yet due to this bad clearance problem. See photos of the problem.

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Old 03-11-20, 11:19 AM
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Note: derailleur hanger isn't bent out of alignment

Note: derailleur hanger isn't bent out of alignment. No crashes or damage. A few years ago when still running as a 2x10 I had carefully checked the hanger alignment, it was perfect, and I never did anything subsequently to damage the alignment.
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Old 03-11-20, 11:32 AM
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put a chain on it and then take the picture
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Old 03-11-20, 11:41 AM
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motorapido
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On all prior derailer setups I've worked on, with the chain off there was no interference with the cogs. In this setup without the chain, for the jockey wheel to align with the smallest cog, the cable hanger arm is jammed tight against the third largest cog. Removing the wheel and installing the chain then reinstalling the wheel would not relieve the jam, would it? (I'm at work and not near my workshop so I can't take five minutes to give this a try)
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Old 03-11-20, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
put a chain on it and then take the picture
+1, and attach the cable. Going forward, avoid other hypothetical problems.
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Old 03-11-20, 11:46 AM
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Install chain with the wheel on. How can you ride a bike without the rear wheel?
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Old 03-11-20, 11:58 AM
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Put the chain on and you probably don't need a picture.
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Old 03-11-20, 12:09 PM
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Is this the model that has a lever that relaxes the spring tension on the pully wheel cage so it will drop?

But putting the chain on works too.
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Old 03-11-20, 01:05 PM
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Chain installed. Clutch flipped to off position when installing wheel as normal. Arm still jammed. Clutch on or off makes no difference. Seems to be issue of the cassette diameter due to the huge lowest gears. But I can't be there only person to have encountered this when retrofitting on old frame for 1x10 with a huge low gear. It appears that the goat link, which replaces the b pivot is longer than the b pivot link, which would shove the shifter rearward and possibly solve the problem, but I have not read that this is an advertised benefit of the goat link.
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Old 03-11-20, 01:38 PM
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Most of the time, when installing a wheel into a horizontal dropouot, the wheel is not pushed all the way back. In fact, many horizontal dropouts had a threaded hole through the rear C-shaped surface, and a small screw was put through to keep the wheel at the intended position in the dropouts. Re-position the wheel so the axle is in the middle of the dropouts and try again. From the picture, I believe sliding the wheel forward will improve the geometric situation causing the problem.
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Old 03-11-20, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier View Post
Most of the time, when installing a wheel into a horizontal dropouot, the wheel is not pushed all the way back. In fact, many horizontal dropouts had a threaded hole through the rear C-shaped surface, and a small screw was put through to keep the wheel at the intended position in the dropouts. Re-position the wheel so the axle is in the middle of the dropouts and try again. From the picture, I believe sliding the wheel forward will improve the geometric situation causing the problem.
This is your problem. Shimano's rear derailleur hanger specifications require the hanger mounting hole to be 4-10mm behind the axle. Your picture shows that your axle is so far back that the derailleur mounting hole is in front of the axle. .
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Old 03-11-20, 03:15 PM
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yeah, move the wheel as far forward in the dopout as possible. You can buy a spacer specifically for locating the axle correctly.

I've also seen people use chainring bolts, or whatever else can be bolted in there as a spacer.

Last edited by wesmamyke; 03-11-20 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 03-11-20, 05:09 PM
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Still jams after max axle movement

Still jams after max axle movement forward in dropout. See pic. Now it jams just on the 46 tooth biggest cog. I'm not missiing a spacer between the derailer b link and the frame mount, am I? The b link face is knurled in the same pattern embossed into the hanger from prior derailers. And where the b link joins the remainder of the derailer, the round

spacer is positioned toward the outside, not the inside of the joint, which is correct, I believe. If I moved that spacer to the inside, that would move the detailer inward, which would make it worse, right?
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Old 03-11-20, 05:50 PM
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The max cassette cog size on that derailleur is 36T. Shimano is a bit conservative on the max size rating, but there is no way that will work with an 11- 46t cassette.
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Old 03-11-20, 05:59 PM
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Right, but I had read many forum posts about this combination working, even without a goat link or long b screw. I figured I could trust what I read. Damn. Suggested alternative mech?
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Old 03-11-20, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by motorapido View Post
Do I need a goatlink?
Yes. Your derailleur hanger is too short.
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Old 03-12-20, 04:58 AM
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What are you using to shift this rear derailleur? There is no Shimano road shifter that will work with 10 speed MTB rear derailleurs. The only compatibility between Shimano road and MTB is 9 speed and below or 10 speed road shifters with 8/9 speed MTB rear derailleurs.

There is nothing from Shimano in the 10 speed and below range that is designed for anything larger than a 36t cog. A derailleur hanger extension is the only option to make this work.
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Old 03-12-20, 05:47 AM
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Microshift integrated drop bar shifters. Worked fine when I used them last when this bike was 2x10 11-36. I don't recall the derailer I was using at that time. I'll cross the shifter road after I sort out the interference between the derailer and big cog. It just seems odd that as I was studying up on 1x with the 11-46 cassette that nobody mentioned the necessity of a derailer hanger extender and many claimed that the m6000 shadow worked fine without a goat link and with the original b screw.
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Old 03-12-20, 12:24 PM
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I just looked at the M6000 specs again and the GS version specs show a max. 42t, so it may work with a 46t cassette. Is yours the SGS version?

In any event, it won't work with your Microhift drop bar shifters. They are Shimano 10 speed road compatible.
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Old 03-12-20, 05:18 PM
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Regardless of specs and others experience, the OP experience is that the RD is not compatible as mounted with the 11-46 cassette.
RD extenders are available on amazon for $10 or less. I think the next step is to try one, cheaper than another RD.
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Old 03-12-20, 08:57 PM
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Agreed: try the derailleur extender. Shifter compatibility will be a whole other set of problems though.
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