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Mechanical discs (TRP Spyre), lever pull too long?

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Mechanical discs (TRP Spyre), lever pull too long?

Old 03-28-20, 09:36 PM
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showlow
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Mechanical discs (TRP Spyre), lever pull too long?

First, I've been asking a lot of questions of you all lately and I want to say I really appreciate everyone's replies. This forum is an amazing resource.

So, this is my first set of mechanical discs. They are fine. The only real issue I have with them is that the brake lever seems to nearly bottom out on the bar when I have them adjusted. This kinda sucks because if I am on the hoods with my fingers wrapped around and I try to brake, the levers will hit my fingers before they brake all the way. Unfortunately, I can't seem to adjust the pads in any further, in an effort to decrease the travel of the lever, because if I do they will rub the rotor. the front is worse than the rear in this respect, because the front rotor is a little warped, and I need to have more space between the pads in order for them not to rub.

Is there anything I'm missing? Is this just the way mechanical discs are?
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Old 03-28-20, 09:49 PM
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Are you adjusting the pads by turning the barrel adjuster on the cable or by the 3mm pad adjuster? Adjusting the cable will result in exactly what you are describing.
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Old 03-28-20, 09:54 PM
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Do you have all of the slack out of the cables; if the caliper does not show movement at the slightest pull of the brake lever, you likely need to pull more cable through the caliper, or can even "preload" the caliper a slight amount to ensure that your lever is moving the caliper throughout it's entire travel. If you run full cable housing, compressionless housing can make a big difference in performance of mechanical discs, as well. Check these things first. You do have the correct levers for your caliper type, i assume. (Normal road lever cable pull for the TRP Spyre calipers....as there are a few drop bar brake levers designed to pull cable for linear pull brakes)
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Old 03-28-20, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by XXLHardrock View Post
Are you adjusting the pads by turning the barrel adjuster on the cable or by the 3mm pad adjuster? Adjusting the cable will result in exactly what you are describing.
Barrel adjuster is out quite a bit, but the 3mm pad nuts are backed nearly all the way out. Will try it the other way around. Thx.
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Old 03-28-20, 10:29 PM
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I don't know how much you understand about adjusting disc brakes on a bicycle. There is more than one thing that can be adjusted.

You can normally wind in the non-moving side so it is closer to the disc. You can also shorten the cable so the moving side is closer to the disc. If you do both, it should be OK.

Sometimes you may need to realign the disc caliper. You can loosen the bolts, move it, and retighten it. You need to get it so the non moving disc pads almost touch the disc, but don't touch it. Then adjust the cable for the moving disc pads.
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Old 03-28-20, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by alo View Post
I don't know how much you understand about adjusting disc brakes on a bicycle. There is more than one thing that can be adjusted.

You can normally wind in the non-moving side so it is closer to the disc. You can also shorten the cable so the moving side is closer to the disc. If you do both, it should be OK.

Sometimes you may need to realign the disc caliper. You can loosen the bolts, move it, and retighten it. You need to get it so the non moving disc pads almost touch the disc, but don't touch it. Then adjust the cable for the moving disc pads.
I think I understand these as well as I can. This is a centerlock rotor so I don't think I can do what you're describing. The pads adjust independently on Spyres, and both are inboard as far as I can get them w/o causing rubbing. Again, it's worse on the front because the front rotor is warped. A better, TRP brand rotor on the front that is truer would probably help a lot.

I don't think there's anything I can do. They work ok, but I don't like how far I have to pull the lever. I'll cable them with compressionless on my next overhaul and see if that helps.
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Old 03-28-20, 10:55 PM
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To allign the caliper on the Spyre brakes: loosen cable attachment bolt, back out the 3mm pad adjusters fully, loosen caliper mounting bolts, adjust caliper position so that the disc rotor is dead centered in between the pads, tighten caliper mounting bolts to hold this position. Re-attach cable to caliper bolt, leaving the barrel adjuster in fully to allow for later adjustment, and making sure to pull all slack out if the cable, but not putting preload on the caliper arm. Proceed to adjust the 3mm pad adjusters inward as much as possible without rotor rubbing. Any slop in the beginning of the lever pull can now be removed with the slacked barrel adjuster.
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Old 03-28-20, 11:17 PM
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Somebody mentioned to check your housing. Squeeze the brake levers gently until you feel a reasonable resistance. Looking at the lever on the caliper squeeze the buggery out of the brake lever and see if the caliper lever moves at all. If it doesn't and you can still move the brake lever towards the bar a fair way the cable is stretching/ housing is distorting. Something like Jagwire Road Pro will fix the problem.
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Old 03-28-20, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SalsaShark View Post
To allign the caliper on the Spyre brakes: loosen cable attachment bolt, back out the 3mm pad adjusters fully, loosen caliper mounting bolts, adjust caliper position so that the disc rotor is dead centered in between the pads, tighten caliper mounting bolts to hold this position. Re-attach cable to caliper bolt, leaving the barrel adjuster in fully to allow for later adjustment, and making sure to pull all slack out if the cable, but not putting preload on the caliper arm. Proceed to adjust the 3mm pad adjusters inward as much as possible without rotor rubbing. Any slop in the beginning of the lever pull can now be removed with the slacked barrel adjuster.
There’s an error in your procedure. Backing out the 3mm pad adjusters is wrong. Loosen the caliper mounting bolts, then turn the 3mm pad adjusters in so that they are about equal. The rotor should be locked in place and the wheel won’t turn. Now tighten the caliper bolts. This will hold the caliper straight while the caliper bolts are tightened down. Once the bolts are tight, back out the 3mm pad adjusters so that they just clear the rotor without dragging. This will make the whole procedure easier.
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Old 03-28-20, 11:22 PM
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Is this something that has worked well in the past? Or is it something that has always been like that?

If it has worked well in the past, it can be adjusted to be good again.

If it has always been like that, you may need new brake levers, where the cable is further from the pivot, so it moves further, to overcome the problem.

Or fit new calipers.
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Old 03-28-20, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
There’s an error in your procedure. Backing out the 3mm pad adjusters is wrong. Loosen the caliper mounting bolts, then turn the 3mm pad adjusters in so that they are about equal. The rotor should be locked in place and the wheel won’t turn. Now tighten the caliper bolts. This will hold the caliper straight while the caliper bolts are tightened down. Once the bolts are tight, back out the 3mm pad adjusters so that they just clear the rotor without dragging. This will make the whole procedure easier.
In theory this sounds good, but in practice, the simple action of tightening the caliper bolt tends to twist the caliper (and push the locked-in rotor) leaving you with a slightly cocked caliper with respect to the rotor alignment. I prefer to backlight the area behind the caliper so i can see the gap and alignment while tightening the caliper bolts one at a time, allowing for any corrections that might need to be made when the caliper wants to twist under the tightening bolt.
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Old 03-29-20, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie View Post
Somebody mentioned to check your housing. Squeeze the brake levers gently until you feel a reasonable resistance. Looking at the lever on the caliper squeeze the buggery out of the brake lever and see if the caliper lever moves at all. If it doesn't and you can still move the brake lever towards the bar a fair way the cable is stretching/ housing is distorting. Something like Jagwire Road Pro will fix the problem.
Good suggestion. Thanks.
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Old 03-29-20, 12:40 AM
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I have that caliper, with a homemade mount, on my 120 lb loaded Rohloff custom tour bike. It's supposed to have short pull levers. LOL
But I have SA levers that I switched the rivet to long pull. The pads touch with 1/4 lever pull and SLAM on LOCK with 1/2 pull..... First time and every time.
I LOVE this brake. My cable is over 6 feet long and uses a tandem cable with compressionless outer. Jag wire I think. I have it set with lots of gap actually, because the wheel needs to move in/out. I think I turned the adjustment, but have no idea what changed.
I'm pretty sure the resin pads have far more grip than metalic. They have near 3,000 miles so far.
I have a SA dyno drum brake in front, it's supposed to be short pull too. WRONG.

Last edited by GamblerGORD53; 03-30-20 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 03-29-20, 12:58 AM
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What brake lever is it. Spyre is made for shimano that pulls more cable than SRAM.

Ive been using spyres for the past two years. I never adjust the pads. Tightening the cable with the barrel or the pinch bolt have been sufficient for me.
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Old 03-29-20, 02:10 AM
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Compressionless legimately helps meaningfully. I'm pretty sure TRP recommends installing with it.
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Old 03-29-20, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by showlow View Post
Again, it's worse on the front because the front rotor is warped.
Then fix this. There are truing tools available or use a small, clean adjustable wrench; keep u=your oily fingers away from the rotor.
First rule of troubleshooting is to fix what you know is wrong first.
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Old 03-29-20, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
Then fix this. There are truing tools available or use a small, clean adjustable wrench; keep u=your oily fingers away from the rotor.
First rule of troubleshooting is to fix what you know is wrong first.
I did my best with an adjustable wrench. I got it as good as I could. The front is a Jagwire brand and seems cheaply made vs the TRP brand rotor on Ed rear.

I think compressionless is something I need to try too.
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Old 03-29-20, 08:37 AM
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I am not trying to be smart, and I hope I don't come across badly, but a couple of weeks ago I replaced both brake calipers for $20. I had a problem with brakes locking on. New calipers fixed it. If you were here, it would be cheap and easy.

Prices in S E Asia
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Old 03-29-20, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by SalsaShark View Post
In theory this sounds good, but in practice, the simple action of tightening the caliper bolt tends to twist the caliper (and push the locked-in rotor) leaving you with a slightly cocked caliper with respect to the rotor alignment. I prefer to backlight the area behind the caliper so i can see the gap and alignment while tightening the caliper bolts one at a time, allowing for any corrections that might need to be made when the caliper wants to twist under the tightening bolt.
It’s not “theory”. I do this in practice all the time as it’s the easiest way to ensure that the caliper is aligned with the rotor. “Eyeballing” alignment isn’t going to result in the caliper being as aligned as it needs to be. The installation instructions for the Spyre doesn’t use the adjusters but they use the cable to accomplish the same thing. They mount the caliper loosely, attach the cable and do the following:

To align the caliper, reattach the wheel, pull the brake lever firmly to self-align the caliper on the rotor and tighten the caliper mounting bolts to 6 – 8 Nm (53 – 71 in lbs).
If the pads clamp down on the rotor strongly enough, the caliper won’t twist while being tightened.
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Old 03-29-20, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by showlow View Post
the front is worse than the rear in this respect, because the front rotor is a little warped, and I need to have more space between the pads in order for them not to rub.
1. First and foremost, straighten your front rotor as much as possible.
2. Align the caliper and tighten the bolts (the procedure is described in the answers above).
3. Dial out any slack in the cable. This is done either by the barrel adjuster or by re-pinching the cable under the pinch bolt (depending on the amount of you need to dial out). Don't preload the brake. The brake arm is not supposed to be preloaded, but at the same time make sure there is no slack in the cable and no "rattle" in the brake arm. Even smallest movement of the brake lever should result in movement of the brake arm.
4. Finally, set the proper brake pad position using the 3mm bolts on both sides of the caliper. Re-straighten your front rotor to a finer degree, if necessary.

Having said that, I've encountered TRP Spyre calipers where brake pads did not sit parallel to each other. Calipers like that will always be mushy, since you will be forced to leave too much space between the skewed pad and the rotor.

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Old 03-29-20, 07:24 PM
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I run TRP Spyres on my bike. I can confirm what others said regarding compressionless: switching to Jagwire Road Pro made a huge difference for me. There are also very good Reaction cables/housing from Yokozuna.
Also, you may need to check the pad adjusters periodically as they may vibrate loose from braking.
Of course, do what others said: true the rotors as much as possible, take out the cable slack with barrel adjuster etc.
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Old 03-29-20, 07:32 PM
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Go with compressionless housing.
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Old 03-30-20, 09:13 AM
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Thx. Tinkered as much as is possible. Made some improvement. It's better but still a little mushy IMO. Road Pro cable kit on order. Will report back.
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Old 03-30-20, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by showlow View Post
Thx. Tinkered as much as is possible. Made some improvement. It's better but still a little mushy IMO. Road Pro cable kit on order. Will report back.
How much lever movement do you need to actuate the brakes? Disc brakes work best if there is very little lever movement before the pads touch the rotor. If your levers move to about half pull before the pads make contact, any mechanical disc brake will perform poorly. Move the pads in closer to the rotor.
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Old 03-30-20, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
How much lever movement do you need to actuate the brakes? Disc brakes work best if there is very little lever movement before the pads touch the rotor. If your levers move to about half pull before the pads make contact, any mechanical disc brake will perform poorly. Move the pads in closer to the rotor.
Way more than than half pull. It takes about half the lever pull to get them to actuate, and nearly all of the lever pull to get full power out of them. It's not great.
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