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Broken Spokes: Better Rim for Clydesdale?

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Broken Spokes: Better Rim for Clydesdale?

Old 05-05-20, 12:07 AM
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fullergarrett
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Broken Spokes: Better Rim for Clydesdale?

First, I'm going to start off by saying that I didn't know if this belonged in this category or the Clydesdale category, so I played it safe and just put it here since it's more mechanical in nature.

So far this year, I've put over 130 miles on my 2016 Giant Sedona which I purchased back in December 2018. The bike was running great until this year, when I experienced a broken rear axle back in February. In March I got it fixed (due to a shortage of funds, time and willingness to "argue" with the LBS owner who insisted it couldn't be done, I decided to just have him replace the broken freewheel axle with another one instead of upgrading to a new free hub wheel.) Ever since, I've put ~50 miles on the bike.

Tonight I was repairing a flat on the rear when I noticed that two of the spokes were broken. One of the spokes was bent. I removed the spokes and reinstalled the tire and inflated to ~35 PSI, but I'm not sure if its even safe to ride the bike in this condition. (As mentioned, I'm a Clydesdale rider - usually fluctuating around 330-340 pounds/150-155 kg, although I'm trying to loose weight.)

Ever since the hub broke, I've made an effort to be more conscious of potholes and bumps, so that I can raise off the seat to lessen the impact. Lately I've been going over some railroad tracks here in town, but that's about the extent of the "harsh" riding I've done. When the LBS replaced the hub he said he did a tune-up, so he either didn't do a thorough check or, more likely, the spoke recently broke. (I obviously just noticed it tonight.)

I'm not sure of the extent of the damage (whether the rim itself is bent or not.) I'm kind of bummed out about this - this is the second time the bike has been out of commission due to stuff breaking on it. Lately it has also been slipping gears from time to time, but I'm assuming that's more of a calibration error more than something broken. My other bike, a 1987 Free Spirit Pinnacle road bike, has bent rims but AFAIK none of the spokes are broken or damaged, even though they are super rusty. And that bike has been through some harsh riding, too. (Plus, the tires on the Pinnacle were usually underinflated due to the pressure limits of the rim.)

I haven't noticed any broken spokes or issues on the front wheel. Both wheels are the stock, 36-spoke alloy wheels. Tires are usually properly inflated - I usually run them between 40-65 PSI (the rear usually 50-65 PSI), the range on the tires is 30-70 PSI. The front tire is set up tubeless (ghetto tubeless) but the rear still has a tube.

What is the best course of action to prevent stuff like this from happening again? Are there better wheel sets out there that are more suited to Clydesdale riders that may minimize the chances of breaking spokes or bending rims?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Old 05-05-20, 12:37 AM
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Don't ride with 2 broken spokes. More will break quickly.

Look for a bike with stronger wheels, or a stronger wheel for your existing bike.

I have used spokes from a trashed wheel, to replace broken spokes. You could do this. You need the appropriate tools, and more spokes will probably break in the future, it is just a matter of how long it takes.

Tires have their maximum pressure written on the side.

Try to keep up the exercise, and continue losing weight. I had a bike stolen at a critical time when I was trying to lose weight. As a result, I became less fit, and put weight on.

Last edited by alo; 05-05-20 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 05-05-20, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by alo View Post
Don't ride with 2 broken spokes. More will break quickly.

Look for a bike with stronger wheels, or a stronger wheel for your existing bike.

I have used spokes from a trashed wheel, to replace broken spokes. You could do this. You need the appropriate tools, and more spokes will probably break in the future, it is just a matter of how long it takes.

Tires have their maximum pressure written on the side.
I still have the broken spokes (they broke off at the hub) but I think it's wise to find a stronger wheel, since this bike is practically new and I can't afford a new bike. When it comes to spokes and lacing wheels, I have the slightest idea of where to even begin.

The tires have a maximum of 70 PSI. I usually inflate the rear to anywhere between 50-65 PSI, and the front is usually between 40-50 PSI. These seem to be decent pressures, and are not underinflated (the tire provides enough cushion on impacts and stuff.)

EDIT: To make matters worse as for the exercise part, I'm moving back home this Friday (university student.) At home I can't really ride my bike as the city has lots of hills and busy streets. There are trails and I hope to possibly use them if I can figure out an easier way to get my bike around without having to borrow my dad's pickup truck. (I own a car and I don't believe my bike will fit in the trunk, even with both wheels removed.)

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Old 05-05-20, 12:50 AM
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It could just be the wheel. Some aren't made as well as others. Some break spokes easily, some bend easily. Maybe the LBS shop managed to accidentally overstress them, or maybe the bike was hit by something causing them to fail prematurely. You can replace a single spoke or two pretty easily, just have to but the right ones and tension it properly.

If you're concerned about breaking another axle I would recommend searching craigslist and local ads to find a new wheel that has a through axle. Usually someone has a stockpile of wheels nearby.
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Old 05-05-20, 01:30 AM
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First of all, a couple broken spokes could be bad luck and it may work out fine if they're replaced and the wheel tension is improved and rebalanced. If more than a couple go, you have a pretty sure indicator that they're all fatigued and are close to failure.
Factory, machine built wheels aren't usually fantastically built--they're usually somewhat undertensioned and uneven in tension. You could probably resolve your spoke breakage by having the wheel rebuilt by a good wheelbuilder with new spokes, but if you've also had issues with broken axles it might be better to get a good new rear wheel with a freehub body (you can use a 7 speed cassette on it, using a 4.5mm spacer behind the cassette). A hand built wheel will stand up much better for you, a factory built wheel that's brought up to the tension and spoke balance of a customer wheelbuilder's standards is also fine.

Also, a wheel built with butted spokes (especially on the non drive side) will be more resistant to spoke breakage.
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Old 05-05-20, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by cpach View Post
First of all, a couple broken spokes could be bad luck and it may work out fine if they're replaced and the wheel tension is improved and rebalanced. If more than a couple go, you have a pretty sure indicator that they're all fatigued and are close to failure.
Factory, machine built wheels aren't usually fantastically built--they're usually somewhat undertensioned and uneven in tension. You could probably resolve your spoke breakage by having the wheel rebuilt by a good wheelbuilder with new spokes, but if you've also had issues with broken axles it might be better to get a good new rear wheel with a freehub body (you can use a 7 speed cassette on it, using a 4.5mm spacer behind the cassette). A hand built wheel will stand up much better for you, a factory built wheel that's brought up to the tension and spoke balance of a customer wheelbuilder's standards is also fine.

Also, a wheel built with butted spokes (especially on the non drive side) will be more resistant to spoke breakage.
I've been thinking about upgrading the wheel to a free hub wheel, so I don't have to worry about the hub breaking as much. So a wheel that is better built or tensioned should be fine?

The problem is getting my LBS (which is the one I bought this bike from) to jump on board with the free hub wheel. He doesn't think it can be done (despite telling him about being able to use a spacer to make things work, as discussed in the linked thread.) Rather (and I'm not trying to attack the LBS owner) he'd keep it the way it is so that I have to replace the freewheel on a regular basis.

If I was staying here longer, I could possibly do it with the help of someone I know who knows much more about the mechanical sides of a bike than I do. However, I have to move back home. I may talk to another LBS to see if they would be willing to work on it for a reasonable price. It appears a new rim will cost ~$90, but I'm assuming I'd also need to buy the new gearing and spacer. I also have to buy a new rear tire since a nail tore a hole in the sidewall of the tire, I've been riding with a jury-rigged "boot" holding the tube in for the last month. (Though the "boot" has been holding ok at 60-65 PSI even.) It's a shame because that tire only has ~140 miles on it. Heck, the whole bike likely has less than 200 miles on it.
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Old 05-05-20, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by fullergarrett View Post
The problem is getting my LBS (which is the one I bought this bike from) to jump on board with the free hub wheel. He doesn't think it can be done (despite telling him about being able to use a spacer to make things work, as discussed in the linked thread.) Rather (and I'm not trying to attack the LBS owner) he'd keep it the way it is so that I have to replace the freewheel on a regular basis.
Not sure why your local shop feels this isn't doable because it is. If you want to save some cash you can buy some quality replacement 14 gauge quality spokes, (DT, Sapim, Wheelsmith) and fit them yourself and either have a shop tighten and true the wheel or attempt it yourself. Whatever you do don't ride it before replacing the missing spokes as this will weaken the remaining spokes. Lots of tutorials on the web and youtube on how to build-true wheels. Not uncommon for freewheel hubs to break axles as you have found but stronger aftermarket chromoly axels can help. I'd ask the shop that replaced your axle if they replaced it with a stronger one or just some cheapy version similar to what was used originally. If you're interested in learning how to do your own work it will save you lots of $$ and headaches in the long run for something like this even if you have to purchase a few tools.
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Old 05-05-20, 10:07 AM
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IF the spokes that broke are NDS and they broke at the elbow, the wheel was probably never tensioned (not enough) properly. Add your weight and you have a short lived wheel.
IF so, replace all the NDS spokes, because the rest have the same amount of fatigue at the elbow.
That should have a very common wheel for replacement purposes if you don't mind mis matched rims.
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Old 05-05-20, 10:52 AM
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I would get the spokes replaced and wheel retensioned and trued. or rebuilt with all new spokes. Broken spokes are often because of uneven tensioning If there is a bike coop in your area you might be able to do this with their help
36h should be enough, with a good build

I would not just jump into buying a replacement wheel hub to go from freewheel to freehub....it is likely to be a $$ sink with little things adding up, better to save for future bike or tires, etc.

I would ride at close to the max tire pressure for a clyde...... don't jump curbs, ride light (i.e. if there are bumps, out of the saddle and let your legs be shock absorbers)

this bike should have plenty of low gears for hills a 28/38/38 front and 13-34 back. put it in the little ring in front and big ring in back and go up the hills as far as you can go.. then walk it if you need to, IMHO if you limit yourself to throwing the bike in a truck and going some place to ride you will not ride much. build even small rides, like going to store into everyday and you will build up faster than you think

Clyde forum can be a great help and support
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Old 05-05-20, 10:53 AM
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Like mentioned, any normal freehub will work, just add a 7spd cassette and the spacer. If you want a dedicated 7sp cassette hub that won't use a spacer I'll sell you one cheap if that makes the bike shop guy happy.

My go to would be a Sun Rhyno lite XL rim, has to be the XL version though. They look almost identical, but heavier and welded seam. Many of the really heavy rims available are disc brake only, so that limits you a little bit. Maybe even go 36 hole, instead of 32 if you are building a wheel.

You can easily order a 26" cassette/freehub wheel with a decent rim and swap it out yourself. I'd get a new chain at the same time too, that way with a new cassette/chain, and freehub you have covered most things that could be causing any skipping. Any issues after that would just be adjustments to the derailleur.
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Old 05-05-20, 11:04 AM
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I would say either buy the spokes and replace yourself or buy a new wheel.

There are many videos online about how to rebuild a wheel, or just remove / replace 1 at a time. You need to get the right length spokes. The local bike shop can help in that area.
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Old 05-05-20, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by fullergarrett View Post
I've been thinking about upgrading the wheel to a free hub wheel, so I don't have to worry about the hub breaking as much. So a wheel that is better built or tensioned should be fine?

The problem is getting my LBS (which is the one I bought this bike from) to jump on board with the free hub wheel. He doesn't think it can be done (despite telling him about being able to use a spacer to make things work, as discussed in the linked thread.) Rather (and I'm not trying to attack the LBS owner) he'd keep it the way it is so that I have to replace the freewheel on a regular basis.

If I was staying here longer, I could possibly do it with the help of someone I know who knows much more about the mechanical sides of a bike than I do. However, I have to move back home. I may talk to another LBS to see if they would be willing to work on it for a reasonable price. It appears a new rim will cost ~$90, but I'm assuming I'd also need to buy the new gearing and spacer. I also have to buy a new rear tire since a nail tore a hole in the sidewall of the tire, I've been riding with a jury-rigged "boot" holding the tube in for the last month. (Though the "boot" has been holding ok at 60-65 PSI even.) It's a shame because that tire only has ~140 miles on it. Heck, the whole bike likely has less than 200 miles on it.
Going off QBP (the most common US bike parts distributor to shops), they have an $120 wheel (at MSRP)part WE8657 that would be OK, although ideally again you'd get a handbuilt wheel with double butted spokes. A 7 speed cassette is like $20 at retail, shop should have some spacers kicking around but if they order it its like a $4 part. All pretty reasonable stuff. If the shop is good they should adjust the hub before sale and true the wheel, but you may want to pay for them to properly stress relieve the wheel and bring the tension up to the max and rebalance the tension.
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Old 05-05-20, 11:38 AM
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for reference or another option velomine has this wheelset at $159 if you really want to move to cassette

https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...oducts_id=4999
Silver Heavy Duty Velocity NoBS 26" 36h Hybrid Wheelset
  •  
    • Cassette Body Type: Shimano/SRAM 8, 9, 10 Speed , Shimano 7 Speed
    • Hub Drilling: 36
    • Hub/Brake Compatibility: Rim Brake
    • Rim Width (Internal): 20 mm
    • ISO Diameter: 559 / 26" mtn
    • Rim Material: Alloy
    • Front Axle: 9mm x 100mm
    • Rear Axle: QR x 135mm
    • Rim: Velocity NoBS
    • Skewer Included: Yes
    • Tire Type: Clincher
    • Valve Length: Schrader
    • Front Weight: 968 g
    • Rear Weight: 1212 g
    • Wheel Size: 26"
    • Rim Joint: Pinned
    • Eyelets: None
    • Rim Width (External): 24.5
    • Spoke Profile: Round
    • Spoke Info: DT Swiss Industry
    • Nipple Material: Brass
    • Nipple Color: Silver
    • Spoke Color: Silver
    • Color: Silver
    • Defined Color: Silver
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Old 05-05-20, 11:42 AM
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No matter if you repair the existing wheel, or replace it, the wheel will need to be properly tensioned by a competent wheel builder.
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Old 05-05-20, 12:40 PM
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Sounds like your bike store guy is useless (a big problem here, too). I would not bother with him any more. Get a new 26x1.75 wheelmaster rear wheel to replace your crappy modern easy to taco alloy wheel. That is probably the cheapest new option that would work, but if you got an old touring bike with 26 inch wheels that would also be good. Or you can go with a dedicated clydesdale wheel which will cost several hundred.

https://www.modernbike.com/quality-w...ffhanger-black

https://www.modernbike.com/quality-w...yl---all-black

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Old 05-05-20, 01:14 PM
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Let’s start with the shop. There should be no issue with going to a freehub over a freewheel. You’ll need a wheel with the freehub in it and a cassette. As long as it’s the same width as the original hub, it will just slide into place. If the mechanic or owner (or both) don’t understand that, it’s time to look for a new shop. And, although I’d rather support a shop, if they won’t do what you want, go buy one without their “permission”. It’s relatively easy to swap a wheel.

Now on to what you should be looking for. Your title is wrong. You don’t need a “better rim”, you need better spokes. Spokes do all the work in a wheel. Rims are just a convenient place to put the spokes and a place to mount the tires. If you can, have a wheel built (or build one yourself) with heavier duty spokes. DT Swiss Apline III are 2.3/1.8/2.0mm triple butted spokes. The heavier head resists fatigue better for us heavier riders. Quality Bicycle Products will build you a wheel with them. It’s not cheap but replacing wheels constantly isn’t cheap either.
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Old 05-05-20, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Letís start with the shop. There should be no issue with going to a freehub over a freewheel. Youíll need a wheel with the freehub in it and a cassette. As long as itís the same width as the original hub, it will just slide into place. If the mechanic or owner (or both) donít understand that, itís time to look for a new shop. And, although Iíd rather support a shop, if they wonít do what you want, go buy one without their ďpermissionĒ. Itís relatively easy to swap a wheel.

Now on to what you should be looking for. Your title is wrong. You donít need a ďbetter rimĒ, you need better spokes. Spokes do all the work in a wheel. Rims are just a convenient place to put the spokes and a place to mount the tires. If you can, have a wheel built (or build one yourself) with heavier duty spokes. DT Swiss Apline III are 2.3/1.8/2.0mm triple butted spokes. The heavier head resists fatigue better for us heavier riders. Quality Bicycle Products will build you a wheel with them. Itís not cheap but replacing wheels constantly isnít cheap either.
IIRC, you were one of the people to mention the free hub in my previous thread. The freehub is the reason I mentioned that I should replace the wheel as a whole. Fix it once and be done with it, whereas the freewheel is just a temporary fix.

As for a replacement wheel and spokes, what is the most cost-effective solution? Obviously it's not going to be dirt cheap, but I also don't have a whole lot to spend - I'm a broke college student (really) and have other projects. I'd say $200 max on the whole job... which is kind of sad because the bike as a whole cost $350 new. But I guess you get what you pay for. I'm hoping this takes care of the problems once and for all...
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Old 05-05-20, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by fullergarrett View Post
IIRC, you were one of the people to mention the free hub in my previous thread. The freehub is the reason I mentioned that I should replace the wheel as a whole. Fix it once and be done with it, whereas the freewheel is just a temporary fix.

As for a replacement wheel and spokes, what is the most cost-effective solution? Obviously it's not going to be dirt cheap, but I also don't have a whole lot to spend - I'm a broke college student (really) and have other projects. I'd say $200 max on the whole job... which is kind of sad because the bike as a whole cost $350 new. But I guess you get what you pay for. I'm hoping this takes care of the problems once and for all...
Do you have a co-op near you now or to where you are going. Thatís the place to look for an inexpensive replacement wheel with a freehub. If you donít have a co-op nearby, this wheel is relatively cheap and the same place has a 7 speed cassette. All in the cost would be about $70. Youíll likely need a lockring tool. I suspect you donít have one now. That brings it up to about $80. Youíll need tire levers and a way to pump the tires.
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Old 05-05-20, 07:47 PM
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The above Velocity heavy duty rim is the other alternative I couldn't think off the top of my head. Those are pretty decent rims.

With anything pre built like that it can make all the difference to have someone go over it and tension/true it one more time.
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Old 05-05-20, 08:05 PM
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Heavy people are better off with wide tires. I only ride mountain bikes and fat bikes.
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Old 05-05-20, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
for reference or another option velomine has this wheelset at $159 if you really want to move to cassette

https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...oducts_id=4999
Silver Heavy Duty Velocity NoBS 26" 36h Hybrid Wheelset
  •  
    • Cassette Body Type: Shimano/SRAM 8, 9, 10 Speed , Shimano 7 Speed
    • Hub Drilling: 36
    • Hub/Brake Compatibility: Rim Brake
    • Rim Width (Internal): 20 mm
    • ISO Diameter: 559 / 26" mtn
    • Rim Material: Alloy
    • Front Axle: 9mm x 100mm
    • Rear Axle: QR x 135mm
    • Rim: Velocity NoBS
    • Skewer Included: Yes
    • Tire Type: Clincher
    • Valve Length: Schrader
    • Front Weight: 968 g
    • Rear Weight: 1212 g
    • Wheel Size: 26"
    • Rim Joint: Pinned
    • Eyelets: None
    • Rim Width (External): 24.5
    • Spoke Profile: Round
    • Spoke Info: DT Swiss Industry
    • Nipple Material: Brass
    • Nipple Color: Silver
    • Spoke Color: Silver
    • Color: Silver
    • Defined Color: Silver
^^ THIS ^^

If you are going to get a new rim/wheelset, this is a great deal. No one will replace your current rims on your hubs and build them right for anything close.

At you weight you need a tandem wheel. While you can find a stronger rim out there, the NoBS is listed in the tandem section by Velocity. And it is a 36 spoke hub.

You need to measure the dropouts to make sure they are 135mm. But for $159, and you can use a 7 speed cassette, it seems like a no-brainer.. A cassette freehub is so much stronger than a freewheel hub, just by the position of the DS bearings.

John

Last edited by 70sSanO; 05-05-20 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 05-05-20, 08:20 PM
  #22  
fullergarrett
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Do you have a co-op near you now or to where you are going. Thatís the place to look for an inexpensive replacement wheel with a freehub. If you donít have a co-op nearby, this wheel is relatively cheap and the same place has a 7 speed cassette. All in the cost would be about $70. Youíll likely need a lockring tool. I suspect you donít have one now. That brings it up to about $80. Youíll need tire levers and a way to pump the tires.
Unfortunately, there are no co-ops around here. I live in a rural area.

Thank you so much for your help. The wheel in the link is 700c; my bike's current wheels are 26" (the tires I'm running right now is 26x2.0".) Is there a version that will fit my bike? I will need the locking tool, although I obviously have tire levers and a pump.
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Old 05-05-20, 08:21 PM
  #23  
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https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pro...SABEgKd1vD_BwE

36 spokes
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Old 05-05-20, 08:29 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
^^ THIS ^^

If you are going to get a new rim/wheelset, this is a great deal. No one will replace your current rims on your hubs and build them right for anything close.

At you weight you need a tandem wheel. While you can find a stronger rim out there, the NoBS is listed in the tandem section by Velocity. And it is a 36 spoke hub.

You need to measure the dropouts to make sure they are 135mm. But for $159, and you can use a 7 speed cassette, it seems like a no-brainer.. A cassette freehub is so much stronger than a freewheel hub, just by the position of the DS bearings.

John
Hopefully this isn't too dumb of a question - but what is a tandem wheel, and what's the difference between it and the $45 wheel cyccommute linked? With the Velocity rim, would I be able to use the 7-speed cassette in cyccommute's response?

Originally Posted by alo View Post
Heavy people are better off with wide tires. I only ride mountain bikes and fat bikes.
I have 26x2.0 tires on this bike, and I'm not sure how much wider I can go. Since I have to buy a new rear tire (hole in the sidewall), would it be a good idea to bump it up to a slightly wider tire? Though the widest 26" Schwalbe Marathon is 26x2.0 - which is what I have now.
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Old 05-05-20, 09:00 PM
  #25  
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At a couple dozen lbs over your weight, I mounted a set of 36h Rhyno Lite wheels on my Montague Paratrooper. All road riding, but never had any problems with 'em. Never even went out of true.
I'd have to look to see what hubs are on 'em, midrange Shimano IIRC.
I have 2" Conti touring tires on that wheelset, though I've 'upgraded' to lighter wheels since I'm down to 240 now.
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