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Zipp + Pro1 = disaster

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Zipp + Pro1 = disaster

Old 05-07-20, 07:15 PM
  #1  
jgg3
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Zipp + Pro1 = disaster

I bought a set of Zipp 404s last year, tubeless, disc. Schwalbe Pro-1s. I could not get the rear to seat, so I gave up and put a tube in. These are the greatest thing. Wish I had got them sooner. Ran that until this spring, and the rear tire is getting square with wear, so I decide to replace it. Bought a new Pro1. Went to replace it and found I could not get the old tire off. Not even a bit. Nothing. The rim is hooked, and edge of the bead is out under the hook. No room for tire levers, and I could not get the edge of the bead away from the rim at all. I finally give up, cut the tire off. No big deal, it was done for anyway. I figured something must be sticking it to the rim. After cutting it most of the way, I have it loose enough that I can get a small steel screwdriver behind it and push it toward the center. Two screwdrivers a half-inch apart, and I see it moving. Finally I get a small section to go over to the center valley, and can get it off. The other side comes easily. Remember, this tire was cut heavily to get to this point.


I put the new tire on, didn't bother with trying to set it up tubeless, so put the tube it. I ride it for testing, always with a backup rescue planned if there is an issue. There wasn't for a week, so I figure I can take longer jaunts. Today, I hit a bad pothole and clearly got a pinch flat. I struggled with the levers I had, but it was just like the first time. The edge of the bead is impossible to get behind, especially with two hands and no help. I didn't have two thin screw drivers. So I called for a rescue.


But I can't do this on a regular basis. So I cannot ride my Zipps until I can do a field repair. Even if I get the tubeless to seat, I still need to be able to get a tube in there in an emergency. So what I can I do?

1. Give them to you. Yes, I knew you were going to suggest it. I have already heard it a lot. I might just end up doing it locally. These wheels are worthless to me if I can't get the tire off on the road.

2. Get a different tire. I regret buying the new Pro1 after seeing how hard it was to get the first off. But I wasn't going to wait until I got it off to get a replacement tire. And really, is it the tire/rim combo?

3. Get/make a better tool. I am pretty sure I could come up with a thing that looks like two thiin screwdrivers about a half inch apart. Use that to get a lever in, and I can probably get it off from there. But... it seems like someone else would already have such a thing. Is there a better tool out there for this problem?

4. Something else I haven't thought of. Any ideas?


Thanks for reading. I love the feel of these wheels, but I can't go out on them again until I can prove that I can get them off when I need to.

The front, which is setup as tubeless, has little wear and seems to be perfect. But I suspect it will have the same issue. I freshen the sealer through the valve core.

--J

Last edited by jgg3; 05-07-20 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 05-07-20, 07:41 PM
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silverado8405
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Was the new tire a tubeless ready/compatible tire as well or a standard clincher? I couldnt really tell from your post. The bead shape between the two might make a difference. The vittoria tubeless tires I had on my rolf wheels were a bear to get off, same tire but as a clincher was much easier. Food for thought.
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Old 05-07-20, 08:04 PM
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Are you running wall to wall tape? This is caused by a tall bead retention ridge, not a tight tire fit.

You can cut thin strips of TL tape to increase the diameter of the bead seat, making it easier to get the tire over the ridge.

You could also take some sandpaper to the bead retention ridge - but thats as risky as it sounds.

Besides that... Im in the same boat as you, just to a lesser extent.
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Old 05-07-20, 09:59 PM
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Captain Obvious reporting for duty !!!!
Call Zipp. See if Zipp had a known bad batch.

Captain Obvious, Over and Out

8-)

Barry
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Old 05-08-20, 01:32 AM
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SethAZ 
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This might be where you pull out the squirt bottle with water and a little dish detergent and lube that thing up. I've used that before to make tight tubeless tire beads more freely movable on rims.

If that works, then get a little hotel-size shampoo bottle and put some water/dish detergent mix in there and see if you can drip some onto the bead/tire interface and make it slideable to the point you can get your tire levers under it. If you can do that in your garage with just a tiny shampoo bottle with some water/detergent, then you can do it on the road someplace, and keep that in a baggie in your saddle bag.

Last edited by SethAZ; 05-08-20 at 01:36 AM.
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Old 05-08-20, 05:02 AM
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jgg3
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Thanks for all the responses.
1. It is a tubeless tire. Went full "road tubeless" plan until I couldn't get the rear to seat, even with a contractor friend's compressor. Going to a clincher tire and giving up on tubeless is an (regrettable) option. I might try that next.
2. Tape is original Zipp, goes wall to wall.
3. I haven't tried calling Zipp, I expect denial and blame the tire. But you are correct, it is something I should do.
4. I tried the detergent the first time around. This is so tight, nothing seems to penetrate.

I am going to make another attempt in the shop to get it off today. Will report back. I really think a custom tool would be the solution, but if this is a common problem, then I would expect one to exist. But if it was common, I would also have expected a lot of "oh, yeah, that is an issue" responses. So if it is not that common, what did I do wrong?
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Old 05-10-20, 07:28 PM
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jgg3
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Update. I put on one of my new Michelin Pro4's. Went on easily enough. Put a 100psi in it and left it for a few hours. Then deflated, and it was easy to slide the bead off the seat and into the center trough. So a normal clincher seems like the easy solution. Did 60 mi on it today with no issues. I haven't totally given up on tubeless, but I probably have on this wheel, and I have definitely given up on Schwalbe Pro1's on Zipp 404s. Maybe there is another tubeless tire I can try that won't be so bad, but I won't be investing $60+ to experiment; I will want to get some sort of recommendation.
--J
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Old 05-11-20, 04:23 PM
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Did you need something like a bead breaker? There are a few tools like that online, or you can try to pinch the tire between the jaws of a vice or C-clamps. Though I don't know how you'd get the other bead off.
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