anonymouse99

I just recently acquired a used 2003 Raleigh M50. Here’s the drivetrain, as it was when I acquired it, which is what it came with stock.

Crankset Shimano MC19 8spd 22/32/42
F. Derailleur Shimano Acera M330
R. Derailleur Shimano Alivio 8spd
Shimano EZ Fire EF29 8spd
Cog Set Shimano Cassette HG50-8, 8spd 11-30t
Uses an IG chain, only.

The first and really only problem with it was the front derailleur, the stock Shimano Acera which would not shift into the large sprocket and had some other rubbing issues I can’t recollect now after all the junk I’ve gone through with it. I tinkered with it for hours, following Parktools and Sheldon brown’s instructions, and finally concluded something must have been off with it or bent. I found an unbelievable deal with JensonUSA and got a mechanistically similar Shimano Deore (top swing, top pull, correct clamp size) for $5.00 + SH. I installed it and tinkered with it for two sets of several hours. Nothing but heartache. Before, with the Acera, I was either able to get it to shift from the middle to large and back or from middle to small and back, but not through all. Now the Deore will go through all, with a few annoying yet minor and possibly resolvable rubbing issues. However, there seems to be a problem and here is where I was hoping someone could help me out: the outside of the cage rubs really bad against the chain when in the large sprocket. From what I can tell the cage is as far out as it can go and it won’t budge any further, either manually or by tugging on the cable. Why is this occurring and what could I do to resolve this issue? I should mention, neither the crank nor the frame seem to be bent or misaligned in any way. Thanks.

sydney

Assuminng the hi limit screw is backed out all the way,It could the the BB spindle is too long.

Al1943

Try adjusting the derailleur height and limits with the cable detached.
Make sure you have the shifter set for the smallest chain ring before re-attaching the cable.

Al

anonymouse99

Thanks. Yep, the high limit screw was backed out all the way. Considering it is due to the BB spindle, could it be adjusted in anyway to resolve this. I've never messed with a BB cartridge before, so I'm not sure if this is physically possible, but could it pushed out more towards the other side. Perhaps over time it got pushed out toward the sprocket side. I would stand to gain about 1 mm, which would be enough.

sydney

In this case, the only 'adjustment' is a new BB with shorter spindle.That assumes the BB is currently tight in the frame.If the crank is a shimano there should be a model # probably on the inside of the crankarm. If so post it and it may be possible to come up with the correct spindle length.

Doctor Morbius

I own an '03 Raleigh M60. One of the first things I do with a new bike is take out the BB to clean the threads, inspect the threads, and put it back in with plenty of extra grease. In the case of my bike the BB was a 68x111 Chinhaur square taper which is total crap. I tossed it and bought a Shimano UN-73 68x113 from Jenson for $20 and got some Deore M510 cranks to replace the stock heavy cranks.

If youre M50 has a Chinhaur, then consider dumping it anyway. Low end bottom brackets are a sneaky way to cut costs in bicycle production. Mine had such bad bearings that it had several catches in a single rotation by hand. You could feel them in the fingertips they were so bad!

The $5 Deore front der should work with your setup provided it's a stock bike. Is it possible that the previous owner changed the bottom bracket?

anonymouse99

Inside of the crankarm says FC-MC19.

anonymouse99

Nope, unless the previous owner lied. When asked if all parts were original stock parts, he said yes.

sydney

QBP says 110/113 spindle length. The longer one with a 11/4 or 13/8" seattube. You'll have to pull the crank arms and measure it.

anonymouse99

Thanks for your advise sydney.

RT

FWIW, I just replaced the cranks/bb/front derailleur on my '05 M50, and required a 118mm bb spindle. Was a Nashbar 48/38/28, and even Nashbar support told me to get a 113mm bb. It still rubs a little, but taking it back to LBS for adjustment today.

sydney

And too short a spindle may not allow a shift to the grannyring, in addition to possible ring/chainstay interference.

anonymouse99

BTW, I just recently went back to adjust the height on the derailleur to see if that would somehow resolve the problem. As expected, it did not.

anonymouse99

Interestingly enough, I decided to do a side-by-side comparison of the old Acera and the new Deore. I'll be damned but it appears that the Deore cage moves out even further than the Acera, which would make no sense whatsoever.

This is certainly bugging the heck out of me. As of now, I'm riding around without the FD, with the chain in the large sprocket. So far the chain hasn't fallen-off and seems pretty stable. Before I was riding around with the new Deore, but with only the use of the small and intermediate sprocket, otherwise kicking into the large sprocket and riding would have likely damaged the cage and/or chain over time.

I took a look at the product insert/manual that came with the Deore FD and a little compatibility chart specifically stated it should be compatible with the MC19 crank. I'm fairly certain my BB is the 111 Chinhaur Doctor Morbius found stock on his M60, although I have yet to verify this.

anonymouse99

Considering the Shimano MC19 Crankset on my bike, do I need a crank puller in order to pull the cranks in order to remove the BB to verify whether it is in fact the Chinhaur 68x111? Park tools mentions that some cranks have the "One-key release" system which does not require the use of a crank puller.

According to Raleigh technical support, the bottom bracket on there is the Chinhaur 68 x 111.

Considering my dilemma, sydney’s advise, and the good possibility that it is the Chinhaur 68 x 111, might I want to go down to a UN52 68x110? I think 1 mm in that direction is precisely what I need. Raleigh technical support actually recommends going up to the UN52 68x113 as a replacement, but I suppose that is assuming the stock Acera FD remains.

anonymouse99

Well, apparently I went and got the wrong derailleur after all. I found this compatibility chart, seen below, which explains why I'm having trouble. Highlighted in yellow are the crank and FD which came stock on the bike. Highlighted in blue is the Deore FD I purchased as replacement. The product insert/manual that came with the Deore was not for the Deore, but rather for the Alivio line of products.

toomyus

sounds like you guys know whats going on more than i do but i remember making a bike and if the shift lever isnt push to make it on its lowest gear you will have issues getting it to the third chainring. em, also if thecable is too tight , u will have mad derailleur issues.

spleck

In my opinion, the "compatibility" issues listed on the Shimano chart should only affect rubbing, etc, due to chain width.

As for BB length, how do your cogs and chainrings line up? The middle chainring should be inline with the middle of your 4/5 cogs. You probably won't be able to tell a 1mm difference by eye though.

anonymouse99

Without doing the proper measurements and simply eyeballing it, I'd say it looks well in-line.

Would you say these rubbing issues resolvable or not? And if so, would this involve modifying the shape of the cage?

spleck

I'm having trouble understanding why the mechanical limit of your newer derailleur is less than your old Acera. Check over the Deore derailleur to make sure there are no physical defects (ie foreign debris, limit screw, etc).

Have you followed Park Tool or other guides for positioning the height of the derailleur?

As for "compatibility" issues, I was merely implying that the Deore should still shift to all three chainrings. I believe its targeted towards 9-speed applications (should be 8-speed compatible), but you're using and IG chain which I believe is a bit wider than the 9-speed super narrow HG chains.

Have you tried adjusting the derailleur rotation? I seem to recall reading either in the Park Blue Book or Shimano's documentation that you may need to rotate the derailleur slightly off parallel for proper shifting.

Switching from a Chinhaur 111 to a Shimano 110 may not actually get you 1 mm. Not all brands of square taper are 100% equal (ie I had problems putting a TruVativ crank on a Shimano bottom bracket). Granted, a Shimano crank on a Shimano BB should be the "correct" matchup, but the Chinhaur 111 may account for the difference.

You can try reinstalling the bottom bracket. Remove it, clean the threads, regrease, and replace. Torque the drive side first for alignment, then the non-drive side. You'll need to remove the cranks for this and for measuring your bottom bracket. A crank puller would make it easy, but not impossible without one.

At this point, it starting to sound like a trip to the bike shop though. It's beyond me...

anonymouse99

Update:

I got the Alivio FD a few weeks ago, put it on with no hassle, and it has been shifting like a dream (no rub; quick,...). I knew it was not a case of incompetence with the prior two FDs, even though I never did have any experience adjusting them beforehand.

linux_author

- tks for the update... adding closure to a thread w/tech questions is A Good Thing(tm)!

UglyBagofWater

I had a similar situation with an Alivio 7 speed bike that I converted to an 8 speed. The XT M751 derailleur I purchased was for a 9-speed, and no matter what i did to the derailleur position, cable, etc., I could not get it to run right (either rubbed on large ring or wouldn't shift to the smallest).

Got an 8-speed Alivio FD, and wham! it all worked great. Later when I upgraded to a 9-speed (chain & crankset) , I had to go back to the XT 751 to make it work right.

In my case, it seemed to be a case of running a 9-speed derailleur on an 8 -speed chain and crankset, thus confirming what your compatibility chart shows.

spleck

Based on what sydney has posted elsewhere, I would say it was the chain causing problems. A 9-speed chain probably would have worked.

anonymouse99

Would the 9-speed chain have worked on the cassette, RD, and chainrings listed above? A little late now though, but I'm thinking things would've been off...
Although most likely only a concern to carpet smoking muppets, such as myself, the chainring has a little sticker that says "IG chain only".