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Why are there more patches than cement?

Old 06-01-20, 01:18 AM
  #1  
jlmonte
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Why are there more patches than cement?

I remember buying Rema patch kits in these convenient green plastic boxes. Overtime, Iíd see different brands, at the LSB cash register, sitting there like candy at the grocery store checkout. Needless to say, Iíd pick up a patch kit, knowing that the cement was probably dried out In my current kit.

Well with time on my hands I decided to repair a few punctured tubes. I discovered I had stashed a bunch of patches in a little Tupperware container and repurposed the little boxes for small parts. I figure I typically have 4-5 patches left over per box with dried out cement, and a current surplus of 40 patches

I searched the Forum, and the cement issue has been discussed. I donít think my leftovers are excessive, instead itís a conspiracy. I think IĎm getting a value, but the manufacturer is stiffing me on the cement. An extra tube of cement is 20 cent less then the price for kit with 7 patches (on Amazon).

Anyways, any recommendations on alternative uses for these patch or toss them?
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Old 06-01-20, 01:48 AM
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If you use it before it dries out you will have plenty. I have extra from my patch kit. And it should not dry out if you put it away promptly and seal it tightly.
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Old 06-01-20, 02:14 AM
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You obviously aren't getting enough punctures. I suggest you go out and get some more to even things out.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that you can get the tubes of cement by themselves. Also, I'm not sure if the formulation has changed but I'm finding it less of an issue. I've got one kit in particular where I expect to find the cement dried out every time I use it and it just keeps going. In fact I had to order some more patches recently.
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Old 06-01-20, 02:47 AM
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I haven't had to patch a tube out on the road in ages but carry a Rema kit with me. I only carry new, unopened "glue" and have often found that even that will dry out. A while back I bought a fairly large can of Slime glue and store it upside down (a tip I picked up here on BF).

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Old 06-01-20, 02:52 AM
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You can buy the cement on its own. Sometimes a much larger tube. I know where I can buy it. Check out what is for sale in your area.
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Old 06-01-20, 04:36 AM
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Try the self-sticking patches. I've used 'em for the past three years. No problems. No worries about glue drying in the tube.

I've used Lezyne, Park and a couple other brands. They all work fine. I replace them about every year, but even some older patches worked well when I needed them.
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Old 06-01-20, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Oneder View Post
If you use it before it dries out you will have plenty. I have extra from my patch kit. And it should not dry out if you put it away promptly and seal it tightly.
New, unopened tubes of cement can & will dry out.
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Old 06-01-20, 05:25 AM
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The Slime cement works well for me. It's cheap and readily available at Walmart in the auto section. For home use I buy the small Rema patches in a box of 100. For on the road I carry the self stick Park patches. On these patch threads there is often discussion that nothing other than Rema cement works to properly create a permanent bond. I would not dispute this but IME the Slime works well enough. I've never had a patch fail.
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Old 06-01-20, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Eric S. View Post
I haven't had to patch a tube out on the road in ages but carry a Rema kit with me. I only carry new, unopened "glue" and have often found that even that will dry out. A while back I bought a fairly large can of Slime glue and store it upside down (a tip I picked up here on BF).

I'll bite. How to you store it upside down with that plastic hanger on the lid?
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Old 06-01-20, 07:15 AM
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My guess is that if the glue is running out, too much is being used. Only a thin film of cement is necessary.

Even the small tube covers about a dozen patches for me.
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Old 06-01-20, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Try the self-sticking patches. I've used 'em for the past three years. No problems. No worries about glue drying in the tube.

I've used Lezyne, Park and a couple other brands. They all work fine. I replace them about every year, but even some older patches worked well when I needed them.
My experience is the exact opposite of yours. I have tried several brands of glueless patches (Park, Lenzyne, and one other I cannot remember) and all failed after very short service.
My experience with traditional glue-and-patch patch kits is that, properly applied, are as good as a new tube.
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Old 06-01-20, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jlmonte View Post
I remember buying Rema patch kits in these convenient green plastic boxes. Overtime, I’d see different brands, at the LSB cash register, sitting there like candy at the grocery store checkout. Needless to say, I’d pick up a patch kit, knowing that the cement was probably dried out In my current kit.

Well with time on my hands I decided to repair a few punctured tubes. I discovered I had stashed a bunch of patches in a little Tupperware container and repurposed the little boxes for small parts. I figure I typically have 4-5 patches left over per box with dried out cement, and a current surplus of 40 patches

I searched the Forum, and the cement issue has been discussed. I don’t think my leftovers are excessive, instead it’s a conspiracy. I think I‘m getting a value, but the manufacturer is stiffing me on the cement. An extra tube of cement is 20 cent less then the price for kit with 7 patches (on Amazon).

Anyways, any recommendations on alternative uses for these patch or toss them?
I never patch tubes one at a time if I can help it. I save up punctured tubes in a box until I run low (or out) of a particular size, then crack a fresh tube of glue and do a big batch. I at least a half-dozen patches at a time and stretch that good tube of glue pretty far doing it this way.

So my advise would be to buy a couple more tubes.
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Old 06-01-20, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
New, unopened tubes of cement can & will dry out.
No, they wonít. Damaged, ďunopenedĒ tubes of cement may dry out. I have tubes of cement that are nearly 10 years old that are unopened and have not dried out. As long as the metal tube is unmanaged, there is no way the solvent can evaporate.
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Old 06-01-20, 08:16 AM
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To make your vulcanizing fluid tubes last longer roll up the tube as you use it and make sure the fluid reaches the opening so no air is in the tube and make sure the cap is on snug. I always run out of patches before fluid.
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Old 06-01-20, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
The Slime cement works well for me. It's cheap and readily available at Walmart in the auto section. For home use I buy the small Rema patches in a box of 100. For on the road I carry the self stick Park patches. On these patch threads there is often discussion that nothing other than Rema cement works to properly create a permanent bond. I would not dispute this but IME the Slime works well enough. I've never had a patch fail.
Iíve seen a number of rubber cement patches fail. My local co-op has moved away from Rema patches to something cheaper and Iíd estimate that the number of successful patch jobs have moved from about 90% to around 50% or less. The 10% failure number for the Remas is always operator error. Failure to prep the tube properly and/or not waiting long enough are the most common causes of failure.

Originally Posted by aggiegrads View Post
My guess is that if the glue is running out, too much is being used. Only a thin film of cement is necessary.

Even the small tube covers about a dozen patches for me.
The cold vulcanization process is a chemical reaction and is limited by the reactants. If there isnít enough of the necessary chemicals, the reaction wonít run to completion. Often there is a single reagent that is needed to ensure that the reaction runs to completion. Thatís called ďthe limiting reagentĒ. For patches, the limiting reagent is in the vulcanizing fluid. If you donít have enough fluid on the tube, it wonít make a strong enough bond. A huge amount of fluid isnít needed but too little can result in a weak bond due to the low number of chemical bonds formed.

Itís a balancing act. Donít put on too little and donít put on too much. Too little and the bond is weak. Too much fluid and you run out of fluid before the patches.
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Old 06-01-20, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Crankycrank View Post
To make your vulcanizing fluid tubes last longer roll up the tube as you use it and make sure the fluid reaches the opening so no air is in the tube and make sure the cap is on snug. I always run out of patches before fluid.
Air in the tube is not a problem. Having the solvent evaporate is the problem. Keep the tube tightly capped but you donít have to worry about air. Cans of fluid have far more air over the fluid than you can ever get in a tube. As long as the can is closed, evaporation isnít a problem.
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Old 06-01-20, 08:41 AM
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I use Park glueless patches. Applied right they last 3 years or more. No messing with dried up glue.
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Old 06-01-20, 09:01 AM
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To illustrate my technique here’s a photo montage.

I mark my tubes with a silver Sharpie. It shows up better than other markers. I also make the X super large so that I don’t have to search too hard to find it.


I sand off the marker to make sure that the tube doesn’t have any mold release on it.



This is a 5g tube of fluid that is nearly 10 years old and has been opened for about 6 months. The patch is an F0 which is smaller than the normal Rema patches.



This is how much fluid I usually use. It’s hard to see but it is a fair amount of fluid.





After the solvent evaporates.



Peel off the foil and avoid touching the back of the patch. Then stick it down on the dried vulcanizing fluid.



I fold over the patch to break the plastic cover and then peel it off from the middle to avoid pulling up the patch. You can see the split on the patch above.



The completed job.



I, like many others, save this job so that I can do a bunch of patches at once. The wait time on letting the fluid dry is not critical as long as it is long enough to allow the solvent to evaporate. I’ve forgotten about patching jobs in the past and have gone as long as 2 weeks and still make a good bond. 5 minutes is usually too little...hence the reason to do this job in batches...but I really haven’t found a time that is too much. I wouldn’t wait a year but a couple of weeks is basically “forever”.
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Old 06-01-20, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
I use Park glueless patches. Applied right they last 3 years or more. No messing with dried up glue.
Applied right and a good glued patch will last a lot longer than 3 years. I have tubes with up to 30 patches that are probably dragging 20 years of use. Even in the geographic center of goat head country, it takes quite a while to get 30 flats.
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Old 06-01-20, 10:25 AM
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Yesterdayís work complete. They are from my nieceís and sister in-lawĎs Beach Cruisers (I normally keep low stock of 26 in. schrader).



Plastic patch kit boxes and Park sticks-ons.

The tube drawer. And, 4 unopened cement tubes, I already know are dried out. I just saying $2.20 for just the cement, and $2.40 for the kit on Amazon, makes no sense. While, if they said, ďFree patches with the purchase on cement!Ē, Iím on board.
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Old 06-01-20, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Crankycrank View Post
To make your vulcanizing fluid tubes last longer roll up the tube as you use it and make sure the fluid reaches the opening so no air is in the tube and make sure the cap is on snug. I always run out of patches before fluid.
Yeah. I always squeeze the tube until the fluid surfaces and put the cap on so no air.inside. And yeah, ocassionally a tube will still dry up. A lot of shops sell the tubes so I buy one every once in a while. (It wold be quite an achievement for REMA to be able to guess correctly how much glue a thousand cyclists use for each patch. Providing enough and the next thread would be "Why is there so much glue for so few patches?"

(Aside: I have two tubes hanging in the bathroom by the garage/shop. Slow leak issues. Tiny, for 23c which I no longer ride. They've got slow leaks. Yesterday I counted the patches on them, 8 and 5. My next bungee cord.)

Ben
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Old 06-01-20, 10:56 AM
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Like all bike geeks, eventually you have to ask, why? And Iím glad no one mention tubeless! I thank you all for you comments.

@ThermionicScott
Exactly, and for my rides I have plenty of tubes. I was doing a favor for my brotherís family, who knows how to get freebies from me.🤔

@jgwilliams
I donít want to jinx myself. I used to get my share of snake bites, when I was young and lazy (poor and stupid). Iíd either over or under inflate, ride through glass, and skid flat spots on my tires. Now, I help the young and lazy. These were my niece and sister in-lawís tubes, but they are just unlucky. 😉
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Old 06-01-20, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
I fold over the patch to break the plastic cover and then peel it off from the middle to avoid pulling up the patch. You can see the split on the patch above.

I'm gonna steal that. Thanks cyccommute !
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Old 06-01-20, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I'm gonna steal that. Thanks cyccommute !
I don't even take the cellophane off. I just let it come of when it wants. Does no harm anywhere as far as I can see except when I do a poor job of pulling it. Edit: and it ensures the patch won't stick to the tire, even if I have glue on the tire from patching it.
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Old 06-01-20, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I'm gonna steal that. Thanks cyccommute !
You donít have to steal it. Itís designed that way.
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