Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

When all else fails RTFM (and a Campy secret handshake)

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

When all else fails RTFM (and a Campy secret handshake)

Old 06-25-20, 04:15 PM
  #1  
zacster
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 6,920
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 200 Times in 162 Posts
When all else fails RTFM (and a Campy secret handshake)

I took my main bike for a longer ride yesterday, a flat 35 miles along Rockaway Beach in NYC. Through the whole ride though I kept thinking the shifting still wasn't right on my Chorus 10 setup, and I had just taken off the cassette, cleaned it, and gone through the Park Tool method to adjust the derailleur. Last time I did it it worked beautifully. This time though I spent every ride so far trying to tweak it but couldn't get it right. Then it dawned on my, what if the spacers that I thought were all the same, weren't? So I pull up the Campy manual online, take off the cassette, and sure enough I swapped two identical looking spacers that were different thicknesses. Luckily the spacers are stamped with their thickness. I put it back together, correctly this time, and now it shifts like brand new after a few quarter turns of the adjuster.
zacster is offline  
Likes For zacster:
Old 06-25-20, 09:08 PM
  #2  
rosefarts
With a mighty wind
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,415
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 552 Post(s)
Liked 250 Times in 141 Posts
Which spacers go where?

I ride Campy 10 too and sometimes it's perfect and others, not. I occasionally remove the cassette, so I could have scrambled the spacers.

I have a 12-25 on one wheelset and 12-30 on the other, the 12-25 does shift better. I figured this was due to range. Who knows?
rosefarts is offline  
Old 06-25-20, 10:10 PM
  #3  
Litespud
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Chapel Hill NC
Posts: 906

Bikes: 2000 Litespeed Vortex Chorus 10, 1995 DeBernardi Cromor S/S, Nashbar 3sp commuter

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 345 Post(s)
Liked 299 Times in 173 Posts
Originally Posted by zacster View Post
I took my main bike for a longer ride yesterday, a flat 35 miles along Rockaway Beach in NYC. Through the whole ride though I kept thinking the shifting still wasn't right on my Chorus 10 setup, and I had just taken off the cassette, cleaned it, and gone through the Park Tool method to adjust the derailleur. Last time I did it it worked beautifully. This time though I spent every ride so far trying to tweak it but couldn't get it right. Then it dawned on my, what if the spacers that I thought were all the same, weren't? So I pull up the Campy manual online, take off the cassette, and sure enough I swapped two identical looking spacers that were different thicknesses. Luckily the spacers are stamped with their thickness. I put it back together, correctly this time, and now it shifts like brand new after a few quarter turns of the adjuster.
when I open a new cassette I use a small file to notch the spacers, one notch for the first spacer, two for the next one etc etc. Reassembling the cassette is foolproof after that
Litespud is offline  
Likes For Litespud:
Old 06-25-20, 10:49 PM
  #4  
zacster
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 6,920
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 200 Times in 162 Posts
Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
Which spacers go where?

I ride Campy 10 too and sometimes it's perfect and others, not. I occasionally remove the cassette, so I could have scrambled the spacers.

I have a 12-25 on one wheelset and 12-30 on the other, the 12-25 does shift better. I figured this was due to range. Who knows?
Look in here: Campy Cassettes There is a diagram with each of the standard cassettes that they've sold in 10 & 11 speed. There is mention of joined large sprockets but mine were loose and the diagram shows it that way.
zacster is offline  
Old 06-25-20, 10:50 PM
  #5  
zacster
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 6,920
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 200 Times in 162 Posts
Originally Posted by Litespud View Post
when I open a new cassette I use a small file to notch the spacers, one notch for the first spacer, two for the next one etc etc. Reassembling the cassette is foolproof after that
The spacers are marked with their thickness, but you need the manual linked above to know where to put them. In my case I had the 1.6 swapped with the first 2.4. And those were the gears that were noisy that also didn't shift well, or when I made it shift well there the others would not. Now it is click, click, click. And because the shifter was readjusted back to where it should be, the 2nd small cog shift works. It wasn't going up before but would skip it when I went to 3rd small cog.

And really, it was more annoying than anything else because I just couldn't get it 100% right.

Last edited by zacster; 06-25-20 at 10:55 PM.
zacster is offline  
Old 06-26-20, 08:42 AM
  #6  
HillRider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 32,253

Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1438 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 259 Times in 208 Posts
I used to buy Campy Veloce 10-speed cassettes that had all loose cogs so you needed a spacer between each of them. I had to follow the instruction sheet's directions very carefully every time I assembled them to be sure I had the spacers in the correct positions. They were nothing as simple as Shimano cassettes where all of the spacers are identical.
HillRider is offline  
Old 06-26-20, 09:24 AM
  #7  
wgscott
Occam's Rotor
 
wgscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,224
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 1,309 Times in 691 Posts
One trick I use is to put a plastic electrical tie though the center of each cog or spacer as I pull it off, which keeps everything in the correct order and facing the right way. You can close the tie backwards so you don't have to cut it to reopen it.
wgscott is offline  
Old 06-26-20, 12:16 PM
  #8  
robertorolfo
Senior Member
 
robertorolfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Queens, NY for now...
Posts: 1,398

Bikes: 82 Lotus Unique, 86 Lotus Legend, 88 Basso Loto, 88 Basso PR, 89 Basso PR, 96 Bianchi CDI, 2013 Deda Aegis, 2019 Basso Diamante SV

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 854 Post(s)
Liked 96 Times in 71 Posts
Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
I used to buy Campy Veloce 10-speed cassettes that had all loose cogs so you needed a spacer between each of them. I had to follow the instruction sheet's directions very carefully every time I assembled them to be sure I had the spacers in the correct positions. They were nothing as simple as Shimano cassettes where all of the spacers are identical.
I see what you are saying, but it's also not particularly complicated to simply follow a diagram indicating which spacers go where...

Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
One trick I use is to put a plastic electrical tie though the center of each cog or spacer as I pull it off, which keeps everything in the correct order and facing the right way. You can close the tie backwards so you don't have to cut it to reopen it.
The cassettes now come on a plastic spline that is used for mounting and dismounting. Not sure when they started using them, but it's a pretty handy way of keeping things organized (until they accidentally slide off the spline).
robertorolfo is offline  
Old 06-26-20, 12:30 PM
  #9  
zacster
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 6,920
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 200 Times in 162 Posts
The plastic splines were always on the cassettes that I bought. The question is which bin o' crap did they end up in? And the real issue is that I took it apart to thoroughly clean it, in which case it all got mixed up in the cleaning fluid as much as I tried to keep it straight.

As the title of the thread says:

RTFM!
zacster is offline  
Likes For zacster:
Old 06-26-20, 02:21 PM
  #10  
FastJake
Constant tinkerer
 
FastJake's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 7,777
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked 35 Times in 29 Posts
Different thickness spacers on the same cassette is one of the dumber things Campy has done recently (but not a huge deal.) Fortunately, you can avoid this confusion and a dozen other issues by using Campy 10-speed brifters with a Shimano 8-speed system, because the cable pull is exactly the same. Though I've moved onto downtube shifters now and have little use for brifters.
FastJake is offline  
Old 06-26-20, 07:56 PM
  #11  
zacster
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 6,920
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 200 Times in 162 Posts
Originally Posted by FastJake View Post
Different thickness spacers on the same cassette is one of the dumber things Campy has done recently (but not a huge deal.) Fortunately, you can avoid this confusion and a dozen other issues by using Campy 10-speed brifters with a Shimano 8-speed system, because the cable pull is exactly the same. Though I've moved onto downtube shifters now and have little use for brifters.
If I'm going to spend the money for a Campy 10sp systen the last thing I would do is dumb it down to Shimano 8sp. 8sp was never a popular system. We went from 7 to 9 to 10 to 11. 8 just never caught on.
zacster is offline  
Likes For zacster:
Old 06-26-20, 08:17 PM
  #12  
Andrew R Stewart 
Senior Member
 
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 13,764

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Raleigh Pro, Trek Cycle Cross, Mongoose tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2495 Post(s)
Liked 559 Times in 433 Posts
I run Campy Ergo 9 speed levers but on Shimano 9 speed cassettes so my understanding might be tilted... (by the ShiftMates I use)

Isn't Campy still using cog C-C spacing that's the same across the cog set? If so then any between cog spacers are sized to take into account the cog's thickness to result in the teeth being "on center". If so then one needs to pay attention to the cog's "root" thickness WRT the spacer. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
Andrew R Stewart is offline  
Old 06-26-20, 08:53 PM
  #13  
rosefarts
With a mighty wind
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,415
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 552 Post(s)
Liked 250 Times in 141 Posts
It's pretty much to account for the depth of the some of the joined cogs.

I had it all apart today and it was no big deal. Pretty obvious really where they go. My crunchy shifting is because I'm missing a spring on the barrel adjuster, so it doesn't stay in place.

It's not a problem to eyeball the right spacer, as long as you're aware that there are different sized spacers.

I learned something new today though, so that's pretty cool.
rosefarts is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.