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Old 06-26-20, 08:56 AM
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New wheels Vintage bike

I plan to have the rear triangle spread to 130mm on my 1973 Schwinn World Voyageur to fit a Boyd 10 speed wheelset from my previous road bike. Should my vintage derailleurs and bar end friction shifters work?
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Old 06-26-20, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain Paul View Post
I plan to have the rear triangle spread to 130mm on my 1973 Schwinn World Voyageur to fit a Boyd 10 speed wheelset from my previous road bike. Should my vintage derailleurs and bar end friction shifters work?
as long as the dropouts are aligned properly parallel and the RD hanger is aligned, you should have no problems. But both of these things need to happen
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Old 06-26-20, 09:16 AM
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Take your current wheel out and measure the travel of your dr from low to high. If it covers the width of the 10 speed cassette, then you might be good as long as there isn't a problem with it clearing the large cogs if they happen to be bigger than what was on your original wheel.

You likely will have to see how much you can back off the limit adjustments to get your DR to travel a wider distance.
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Old 06-26-20, 09:43 AM
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Are they the original derailleurs and shifters?
They may work but probably not very well especially if you want 11 speed.
You could use 7 of a modern 10 speed cassette and get it to work well that way.
But if you have the wheels try it.
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Old 06-26-20, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by blamester View Post
Are they the original derailleurs and shifters?
They may work but probably not very well especially if you want 11 speed.
You could use 7 of a modern 10 speed cassette and get it to work well that way.
But if you have the wheels try it.
I agree. Friction shifting a 10 speed cassette with an old Sachs Huret drivetrain would be quite a feat.

John
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Old 06-26-20, 11:12 AM
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I have a steel Ochsner that I spread from 126 to 130. I am still using the original Shimano 105 6 speed DT shifters, front and rear derailleurs. I have a Shimano HG50 10 speed cassette on the on a Mavic Open Pro, Ultegra 10 speed hub. It has a 94BCD IRD crankset with 46-32 rings. The chain is a Shimano 10 speed. The shifters are set in friction mode and it works perfectly. Not much travel for the shift levers to make the shifts. Occasionally, I have to trim the lever a bit to get the shift just right, but most of the time I am right on. The more I ride it, the better I hit the shift just right. The front, naturally, also works fine.
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Old 06-26-20, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by delbiker1 View Post
I have a steel Ochsner that I spread from 126 to 130. I am still using the original Shimano 105 6 speed DT shifters, front and rear derailleurs. I have a Shimano HG50 10 speed cassette on the on a Mavic Open Pro, Ultegra 10 speed hub. It has a 94BCD IRD crankset with 46-32 rings. The chain is a Shimano 10 speed. The shifters are set in friction mode and it works perfectly. Not much travel for the shift levers to make the shifts. Occasionally, I have to trim the lever a bit to get the shift just right, but most of the time I am right on. The more I ride it, the better I hit the shift just right. The front, naturally, also works fine.
So depending what the op has yours may actually be on the modern end of the scale.
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Old 06-26-20, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by blamester View Post
So depending what the op has yours may actually be on the modern end of the scale.
Definitely different era. Just thought I would share my experience with what is working.
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Old 06-26-20, 03:04 PM
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That's quite a mashup. If the rear derailer has enough travel it will work in theory. But as mentioned, friction shifting a 10-speed cassette with that setup might not be fun. You'll need to use a 10-speed chain, of course.

It might be easier to shift an 8-speed cassette than the 10-speed one you have. That would be an easy swap.
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Old 06-26-20, 03:09 PM
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If your vintage bar end shifters don't have enough throw to make this work, dia compe ene bar end shifters should do the job.

https://velo-orange.com/products/dia...r-end-shifters
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Old 06-26-20, 04:56 PM
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Just some food for thought. That's a pretty heavy bike. Not quite as heavy as the 46 lb Varsity I rode for many years. But still much heavier than even the inexpensive discount bikes online.

If you are just going out for a relaxing leisurely ride, then it's probably a comfortable riding bike. However if you are going to ride in a more serious fitness type riding style and go out with others on long rides, then you might want to save the expense of upgrades on the old bike that wasn't a true lightweight bike even in its heyday.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm thinking this is a 28 to 30 pound bike.
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Old 06-26-20, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by blamester View Post
Are they the original derailleurs and shifters?
They may work but probably not very well especially if you want 11 speed.
You could use 7 of a modern 10 speed cassette and get it to work well that way.
But if you have the wheels try it.
yes original. I hate to send it to the frame shop to have it widened unless I am pretty sure it will work.
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Old 06-26-20, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by FastJake View Post
That's quite a mashup. If the rear derailer has enough travel it will work in theory. But as mentioned, friction shifting a 10-speed cassette with that setup might not be fun. You'll need to use a 10-speed chain, of course.

It might be easier to shift an 8-speed cassette than the 10-speed one you have. That would be an easy swap.
If my wheel is made for a 10 speed can I use an 8 speed cassette?
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Old 06-26-20, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by FastJake View Post
That's quite a mashup. If the rear derailer has enough travel it will work in theory. But as mentioned, friction shifting a 10-speed cassette with that setup might not be fun. You'll need to use a 10-speed chain, of course.

It might be easier to shift an 8-speed cassette than the 10-speed one you have. That would be an easy swap.
i have not bought a cassette yet. I put the 10 speed that came with the bike back on the original wheel when I sold it.
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Old 06-26-20, 10:09 PM
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It has been more decades than I can remember since nice I had a Schwinn Varsity. But here is something to think about. Does your rear derailleur has enough travel, and are the pivots tight enough for cogs that are spaced closer together?

You can kind of check derailleur travel by attaching it to the frame, backing out the limit screws, and moving the derailleur by hand to measure the distance it moves.

Personally, I would ask this sub-forum for period correct rear derailleurs that will work with 7 or 8 speed cassette width. It would be cool to run an old Suntour, (Campy if you want to spend the money) or other RD with the bike.

John
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Old 06-26-20, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Just some food for thought. That's a pretty heavy bike. Not quite as heavy as the 46 lb Varsity I rode for many years. But still much heavier than even the inexpensive discount bikes online.

If you are just going out for a relaxing leisurely ride, then it's probably a comfortable riding bike. However if you are going to ride in a more serious fitness type riding style and go out with others on long rides, then you might want to save the expense of upgrades on the old bike that wasn't a true lightweight bike even in its heyday.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm thinking this is a 28 to 30 pound bike.
Yes I think I saw it was 26 or maybe 28 pounds. I got a 1976 bicentennial edition Varsity as a kid. I wanted something that era but higher quality. This bike was pretty much the top of the line and Iím very happy with the choice. Iím not expecting it to be as light as my carbon bike or to shift like my Di2 but I would like to use these wheels and have already decided to spend the money if I can make them work.

i donít necessarily want a ten speed cassette but think thatís what the wheel takes so not sure if I can change that.
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Old 06-26-20, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
It has been more decades than I can remember since nice I had a Schwinn Varsity. But here is something to think about. Does your rear derailleur has enough travel, and are the pivots tight enough for cogs that are spaced closer together?

You can kind of check derailleur travel by attaching it to the frame, backing out the limit screws, and moving the derailleur by hand to measure the distance it moves.

Personally, I would ask this sub-forum for period correct rear derailleurs that will work with 7 or 8 speed cassette width. It would be cool to run an old Suntour, (Campy if you want to spend the money) or other RD with the bike.

John
How would they be different than my Shimano Crane GS? I think it was the top of their line, wasnít it?

Can I run a 7 or 8 speed cassette on a wheel that came with 10?

Last edited by Captain Paul; 06-26-20 at 10:50 PM. Reason: Did more research
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Old 06-26-20, 11:21 PM
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I don’t have an answer. Hopefully someone here or C&V can give you a definitive response.

John
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Old 06-27-20, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
I agree. Friction shifting a 10 speed cassette with an old Sachs Huret drivetrain would be quite a feat.

John
Think they are Suntour shifters with Shimano Crane GS long cage derailleur. Does that change anything?
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Old 06-27-20, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain Paul View Post
Think they are Suntour shifters with Shimano Crane GS long cage derailleur. Does that change anything?
Just to have an understanding. Your 10 speed Schwinn only has 5 cogs in the back. A 10 speed cassette has 10; effectively a 20 speed bike using the same terms. A 7 speed cassette has 7, 8 has 8.

I canít tell you if your derailleur will work. I believe there was a post that 7 will work.

I also canít tell you if almost 50 years of riding, unless the bike has been in storage, the derailleur has too much play from wear.

John
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Old 06-27-20, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
Just to have an understanding. Your 10 speed Schwinn only has 5 cogs in the back. A 10 speed cassette has 10; effectively a 20 speed bike using the same terms. A 7 speed cassette has 7, 8 has 8.

I canít tell you if your derailleur will work. I believe there was a post that 7 will work.

I also canít tell you if almost 50 years of riding, unless the bike has been in storage, the derailleur has too much play from wear.

John
Thank you John. Someone above said a switch to 8 speed is easy. It appears that an 8 speed will fit my wheel. I found an 11-34 on Amazon. A google search says the max gear for the Crane GS long cage is 34. I think the original is a 14-32 so this would give me a lower gear for hills. When comments talk about the difficulties with ten speed friction shifting I assume that is because there are so many gears for a given width that itís hard to get it on a gear. So, would an 8 gear cassette, having 8 gears in the same width on my wheel be easier with my friction shifters? Do you guys think that would be a good option? That would give me better wheels, better tire options and more gearing options.

And certainly if the derailleur is worn out from use I can understand replacing it but prefer to keep it if I can.

My goal isnít to upgrade everything on the bike to modern. It is to use these wheels which would give me better tire and gearing options as well as better wheels. And they look cool.

Iím asking so many questions here because I donít want to send it off to a frame shop to be widened only to find out it doesnít really work and now I have to change everything on the bike. I donít want to learn from trial and error and figure people here know these answers.

I gave away my old Varsity 20 years ago and have since just bought new carbon road bikes and ridden them.

I really appreciate all the comments and suggestions.
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Old 06-27-20, 11:50 AM
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If you like upgrading them and haven't gone STI's, then make the leap. Indexed shifting on the handle bars really does make a better riding experience. At least for me it did. I used to not like reaching to the down tube shifters on my bikes when in turns or doing some hard climbing, or when going fast and hitting sudden rough patches of road. However with shifting on the brake levers (STI) it just becomes so easy and effortless and you can shift any time you want and still keep both hands on the bars if needed.
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Old 06-27-20, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Paul View Post
Thank you John. Someone above said a switch to 8 speed is easy. It appears that an 8 speed will fit my wheel. I found an 11-34 on Amazon. A google search says the max gear for the Crane GS long cage is 34. I think the original is a 14-32 so this would give me a lower gear for hills. When comments talk about the difficulties with ten speed friction shifting I assume that is because there are so many gears for a given width that itís hard to get it on a gear. So, would an 8 gear cassette, having 8 gears in the same width on my wheel be easier with my friction shifters? Do you guys think that would be a good option? That would give me better wheels, better tire options and more gearing options.
Only question for the group would be if their is any issue with the 11t and the Crane. Unfortunately the days of 14t or even 13t first position cogs are long gone. I have used a Sunrace 12-34 8 speed cassette and like the gapping. But I HAVE NOT run it with anything close that old. It may be a moot point whether you run an 11t or 12t as capacities published back then had no concept of an 11t.

John
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Old 06-27-20, 02:41 PM
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Shifting 10 speed with friction is not so difficult.
But it's the travel on the lever which may be awkward in your case. But it may not be.
I use friction and 9 speed and lever travel for a full sweep is alittle over 90 degrees and it works very well.
You might have to use 180 degrees which I think would be less than ideal.
But what you can do is only use the sprockets that work. Set the limit screws so that you don't use the bottom two cogs. And so now you are only trying to move across 7 or 8 cogs.
I generally remove the cogs and use spacers to centre the cassette on the freehub.
This is all conjecture and it may be fine. You just gotta do it and see.
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Old 06-28-20, 11:20 AM
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I run Campy 13-26 10sp wheels with old style Campy NR friction shifters and it works really well. Shifting is smooth, quiet and more precise than the old 6 speed with the same shifters/derailleurs. The ramps on the cassette make a lot more difference in shifts than anything else, including indexing.
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