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Tube pressing into spoke holes blowing tube?

Old 07-06-20, 11:24 AM
  #1  
dirtman
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Tube pressing into spoke holes blowing tube?

I upgraded the tires on a bike here and have been having fits trying to keep the tubes from blowing out. The wheels are aero style with deep spoke recesses under the rim strips. The tubes are blowing out into the recesses after about 110 psi. The tires are marked 125 psi.
I tried wider rim strips, but the tube still blows out over the holes. I tried cotton tape instead but that too failed to stop the tube from blowing out into the spoke recess holes. The holes are not sharp and they are fully covered yet the tube keeps blowing out over the holes. Each time its been a different hole. I even tried electrical tape over the holes and cotton tape but the tube still pops.
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Old 07-06-20, 12:17 PM
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You may be able to use a lower pressure. Just because the tire can hold 125psi doesn't mean it's needed. Post your tire size and weight for opinions. You could try two layers of tubeless rim tape but I'm surprised the cloth tape didn't do the job.
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Old 07-06-20, 12:28 PM
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Have you used the Velox brand tape in a width that runs the width of the bottom flat of the rim? They make a wide range of widths. I've even taken a wider width and cut the roll with a very sharp kitchen knife (holding the roll in a bench vise) to make a custom width (only because I needed a roll, what I had on hand was either too wide or too narrow and this is COVID; I go out once a week).

The Velox tape is cotton (I presume) but works very well. From a consortium of French companies that have been making bike stuff for a century. Clean and dry your rim first. The tape should hold up for years, even decades.

Ben
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Old 07-06-20, 12:34 PM
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Continental makes an Easy-tape version which they claim will take 220psi: https://blobs.continental-tires.com/...ip-en-data.png
I use the regular 116psi stuff as my go-to rim strip.
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Old 07-06-20, 12:48 PM
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What kind of "cotton tape"?
IF your strip is too narrow, it's more prone to extrude into the holes. Simply not enough adhesive surface to hold it in place.
You can use a tape that slightly runs up to the bead seat area as long as it's clear of the actual seating surface.
Back about 60 lbs. ago, I used to run the rear on my skinny bike at 120 PSI. The difference in "extrusion" into the spoke hole was noticeably greater than the front that ran at about 100-110.
I was using Velox.

I originally used too narrow of a tape. It worked until I dislodged it slightly when repairing a flat. After that, the adhesive was messed up enough so the tape would migrate enough into the hole to expose the edge of the hole and result in a puncture. The next size wider tape fixed the problem.

Last edited by Bill Kapaun; 07-06-20 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 07-06-20, 01:56 PM
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Have you thought of trying the Velocity Veloplugs rim plugs? If it's a double walled rim, they work nicely.
https://www.amazon.com/Velocity-Velo.../dp/B07BQBSDYF
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Old 07-06-20, 02:55 PM
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Try what everyone else said first, lower pressure, wider tape, velox etc, but Gorilla tape cut to width will be as strong as anything imaginable.

Gorilla tape is popular for first time tubeless set ups.
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Old 07-06-20, 03:00 PM
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https://www.amaincycling.com/special...caApN5EALw_wcB
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Old 07-06-20, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bmcer View Post
Have you thought of trying the Velocity Veloplugs rim plugs? If it's a double walled rim, they work nicely.
https://www.amazon.com/Velocity-Velo.../dp/B07BQBSDYF
After so many years I had never seen those. Pretty cool. Might be a good way to go when trying got get 2.1 mtb tires on 14mm wide rims. I'm using strapping tape now to give me a bit more space.

John
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Old 07-06-20, 03:41 PM
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I've used red Veloplugs on Velocity rims for more than a few years. Great product.
More info: https://www.velocityusa.com/product/...ries/veloplugs
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Old 07-06-20, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
After so many years I had never seen those. Pretty cool. Might be a good way to go when trying got get 2.1 mtb tires on 14mm wide rims. I'm using strapping tape now to give me a bit more space.

John
Happy to help. I used these for years when I was still running clinchers. They made it easier to mount a tire and get the bead seated in the rim. I've used them on a variety of rims with good results. They do come in two sizes, red and yellow. Mostly I've used the red ones.

Bert
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Old 07-06-20, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bmcer View Post
Have you thought of trying the Velocity Veloplugs rim plugs? If it's a double walled rim, they work nicely.
https://www.amazon.com/Velocity-Velo.../dp/B07BQBSDYF
Added them to my cart. Too tight tires are a problem with many rims when you want to mount by hand and thin rim strips are not a good choice.
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Old 07-08-20, 01:18 PM
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I want to know what sort of mad genius came up with the idea of packaging these in a quantity of 50.
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Old 07-08-20, 02:56 PM
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I've switched to tubeless tape for my tubed rims as well as my tubeless ones. I believe it is TESA #4289 . I think this is the stuff Stans uses in yellow. November Bicycles sells rolls of it in black. Two wraps around the rim and good to go. I was having a recurring problem with this even with brand new Velox tape.
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Old 07-08-20, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jimincalif View Post
I've switched to tubeless tape for my tubed rims as well as my tubeless ones. I believe it is TESA #4289 . I think this is the stuff Stans uses in yellow. November Bicycles sells rolls of it in black. Two wraps around the rim and good to go. I was having a recurring problem with this even with brand new Velox tape.
66 meters cost about $10 including shipping from industrial supply dealers.
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Old 07-08-20, 06:53 PM
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I've been using Kapton tape, 20mm on road rims. $5.99 for a 33m roll. It is really thin, and 2 wraps hold 120 psi with little, if any, dimpling around the spoke holes.
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Old 07-08-20, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
I want to know what sort of mad genius came up with the idea of packaging these in a quantity of 50.
Same guy that figured out selling hot dogs in packs of 10 and buns in packs of 8. I suspect it was Satan, actually.
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Old 07-08-20, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tomtomtom123 View Post
66 meters cost about $10 including shipping from industrial supply dealers.
Nice, do you have a source that sells by the roll? When I was searching I only found places that sell cases of the stuff.
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Old 08-03-20, 01:19 AM
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I'm not sure what brand the tape is, I bought it in a bulk roll from a local bike shop, its wider than it needs to be, I've been cutting it to the width of the inside of the rim. The problem is that the holes are almost as wide as the flat part of the rim, and it keeps folding the tape into the hole on each side of each hole, even at 100psi it folds into the hole.
I'm 325 lbs, about 6ft 1.5" tall. The rims are aero style, the decals were removed when I got the bike. What I've got on it now is a strip of pallet binding tape, which is fiber reinforced, then with several layers of heavy fiber packing tape. It was okay for a while but I blew another tube in the rear last night at 100psi. At 100psi, the 700x23 tires look flat under me. I'm afraid of flat spotting a rim like this.

I looked at those plugs but they all seem to be too small, the plugs say 8mm, the backside holes in the rim are more like 11 or 12mm. They were super rough around the edges, I sanded each hole smooth but it didn't help much. The tube still pushed the tape, plastic, and cotton into the hole. Those plugs also look likethey overlap the hole, that wont work on these rims because the hole is almost to the outside of the rim on each side, there's maybe a 1mm tops on each side. I put that bike aside for now, and have been using a Trek I picked up with Rigida 1320 rims, but I've had several flats on that one too, also on the back side of the rim, those rims have thick, orange rim strips that I was only able to removed after letting them sit in the sun for a few hours. The span the width of the rim, but the tube still pushed the strip into the hole over the course of a couple weeks pumped up to 110psi. The tires are Specialized 27x1" skinwalls. As much as I didn't want too, I switched to thorn resistant tubes, which makes the bike ride terrible. They seem to bog the bike down rolling resistance wise even at slower speeds. They still blew out because the thicker part of the tube in towards the tread not the rim. I tried taping over the rim strips first with the rim tape, cut to width, then with a layer of fiber packing tape. It lasted a week, I heard it blow out one day from in the house just sitting there. Both bikes are making the same type of injury on the tube, its a small "C" shaped bite of sorts about 1/6" around. If I patch one spot, the next time another blows out. Getting the tires off the Trek isn't much fun, even with a set of Park levers, the tire fights me the whole way. I've never seen a tire so tight. On the other bike the tires all but pop off with my fingers once the air is out. I wasn't able to find thorn resistant tubes with long valve stems either. The last owner drilled the rims for Schrader valves too. I'm not sure what's left to stuff in there, I'm not sure the tubeless tape would work either since there's little to no support on the sides of the holes. I like the idea of filling the holes. The guy I go the bike from said he took the rims off a modern tandem and converted them to single speed with a flip flop hub. Their on an old lugged steel Japanese frame I found marked Palm Cycles. I put on a used seat, a Nitto tall stem, a pair of riser handle bars and a single speed SR crank from a BMX bike and these wheels. I started out on a cheap Mongoose single speed a few months ago, then found the Trek and I put this one together soon after with all spare parts off CL.
The bike is worthless, just a collection of parts that work together, the wheels were the one thing I thought were good here but have proven to be the biggest problem. I thought about bigger tires, somehing that will run at lower pressure but then I have clearance issues, added rolling resistance, and pinch flat issues to deal with.
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Old 08-03-20, 02:58 AM
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There is a lot to unpack in this.

1) if these rims can’t hold 100 psi, they aren’t safe. Given the lack of information in the post, I have no idea what they were designed for. What you are describing sounds like an incompatible combination of rim and tire.
2) At 325lbs, you can’t run 23c tires, particularly modern light casings. You need something significantly wider.
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Old 08-03-20, 03:29 AM
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Maybe try 3d printing your own plugs for your custom diameter.
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Old 08-03-20, 04:36 AM
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I wouldn't have a clue how to print any parts, sounds like expensive equipment to me.

The rims are from a 90's Tandem bike, 48 spoke, not sure of the brand, the stickers are gone.
They came from a bike shop down in FL, I happened to stop in there while killing time while the old lady shopped across the street.
The guy was working on a huge frame Shogun frame doing a single speed conversion. I asked what wheels he recommends for a big rider and I told him what I wanted to do so he sold me the two 48 spoke rims. The hubs are huge, they only say Phil on them. The rims have straight 14ga stainless spokes and are deep aero style rims. He said they were built for a guy's tandem years ago and never picked up, he said he was tired of looking at them all these years. They're not as deep as the rims that were on the Mongoose I had before but these are shaped similar.
The rims came with two Michelin Dynamic 700x23 tires and schrader tubes with long stems.
I only gave $50 for the pair and they look like new. Both are dead-on true and minty clean with no signs of brake wear. They looked pretty heavy duty, which is why I bought them.

If I can't run 700x23 tires, what can I run? not much else will fit in the frame width wise, I've got plenty of room height wise but not for width. I could maybe go to a 700-25 or 28, but I don't see how the wider tire will help the tube pushing into the rim holes.
I've had a few flats on the Trek too with the 27x1 tires, I thought about going to wider tires on that but haven't found anything decent. That bike could take a 1 1/4" wide tire, but the flats are on the backside of the tube there too.
Why would they make a bike in a 62cm frame if it can't take someone big enough ride it?
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Old 08-03-20, 05:04 AM
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As others have mentioned, use tubeless tape and run it from edge to edge of the inside of the rim. It won't hurt anything to run it up the side of the rim as well, as long as it doesn't go over the bead hook.
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Old 08-03-20, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by dirtman View Post
I could maybe go to a 700-25 or 28, but I don't see how the wider tire will help the tube pushing into the rim holes.
It will help because you won't have to pump them up to as high a pressure.
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Old 08-03-20, 11:39 AM
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Old stuff : fiber reinforced packing tape will span the hole in a double wall rim.. and the fiber is likely stronger than cotton..

I have been using a fused loop plastic rim strip for decades.. though I don't ride aero deep section rims & 110 psi 23 tires..
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