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Ultegra is more Dura Ace, less 105, or vice versa?

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Ultegra is more Dura Ace, less 105, or vice versa?

Old 07-09-20, 04:24 PM
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Ultegra is more Dura Ace, less 105, or vice versa?

love my old 9 speed dura ace work amazingly my question is does ultegra minic dura ace more than it does 105

my newish 10 speed 105 is not even close to the quality and smooth nessie of my 9 speed dura ace. looking to get new groupo.
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Old 07-09-20, 04:28 PM
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Shimano's product tiers 1) Dura Ace, 2) Ultegra 3) 105. that what you needed?
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Old 07-09-20, 05:01 PM
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I understand what you are asking. Obviously Ultegra is closer to 105 than DA in terms of price. However, I think it may be closer to DA if you are considering finish and functionality. As an example, a couple of generations ago 105 brakes used that not-quite-Phillips (JIS?) screw to adjust the side to side balance. Ultegra and DA used the much nicer Allen screw. Maybe someone can give more current examples. Anyway, I think this is the reason most folks consider Ultegra the best value in the lineup. It really makes it hard to justify the big price leap to DA and I suspect Shimano likes it that way. Keeps DA more exclusive.
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Old 07-09-20, 06:03 PM
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I sure do not have a definitive answer to the question. I can say that I purchased a 105 7000 groupset and have it on a Soma Smoothie I built about 6 weeks ago. The 7000 groupset is outstanding. Set up was fairly easy with help from a couple of youtube videos. The gear shifting is clean and precise and the braking, rim brakes, is really good. I usually use KoolStop salmon pads but am keeping the 105 pads for now. I read a couple of reviews on the 7000 groupset and they sold me on the purchase. I have compact 50/34 crankset, mid length derailleur and 11-32 cassette. I have an 11-28 cassette on order.

I was leaning towards the Tiagra 4700 groupset but do not like the lack of compatibility with other groups. I estimate I have around 800 miles on the 7000 groupset now. Definitely glad I went with the 105 7000. I have older Ultegra and 105 groupsets and really the only one I do not care for is the 5700 10 speed. I have read posts by others that have the 6700 and it seems to be disliked by the majority of users. The shifting has never been good and needs adjusting quite often. The 105 5600 and the Ultegra 6600 have both been good performers, with the Ultegra definitely a step up. I also have the 6500 group on a couple of bikes and it works very well. Never had the 105 5500

The reviews I read on the 7000 groupset all said that this version of 105 really narrowed the performance gap between the Ultegra and 105. The main difference is in the weight savings for the Ultegra. The aesthetics were mentioned, giving the Ultegra a slightly sleeker look, whatever that means.

Last edited by delbiker1; 07-09-20 at 06:08 PM. Reason: add more info
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Old 07-09-20, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Shimano's product tiers 1) Dura Ace, 2) Ultegra 3) 105. that what you needed?
no silly.
in actuality has does ultegra compare....more dura ace DNA or 105 .....
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Old 07-09-20, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by delbiker1 View Post
I sure do not have a definitive answer to the question. I can say that I purchased a 105 7000 groupset and have it on a Soma Smoothie I built about 6 weeks ago. The 7000 groupset is outstanding. Set up was fairly easy with help from a couple of youtube videos. The gear shifting is clean and precise and the braking, rim brakes, is really good. I usually use KoolStop salmon pads but am keeping the 105 pads for now. I read a couple of reviews on the 7000 groupset and they sold me on the purchase. I have compact 50/34 crankset, mid length derailleur and 11-32 cassette. I have an 11-28 cassette on order.

I was leaning towards the Tiagra 4700 groupset but do not like the lack of compatibility with other groups. I estimate I have around 800 miles on the 7000 groupset now. Definitely glad I went with the 105 7000. I have older Ultegra and 105 groupsets and really the only one I do not care for is the 5700 10 speed. I have read posts by others that have the 6700 and it seems to be disliked by the majority of users. The shifting has never been good and needs adjusting quite often. The 105 5600 and the Ultegra 6600 have both been good performers, with the Ultegra definitely a step up. I also have the 6500 group on a couple of bikes and it works very well. Never had the 105 5500

The reviews I read on the 7000 groupset all said that this version of 105 really narrowed the performance gap between the Ultegra and 105. The main difference is in the weight savings for the Ultegra. The aesthetics were mentioned, giving the Ultegra a slightly sleeker look, whatever that means.
Tiagra 10 seems almost to good to buy 105 stuff.
ultegra is nice very nice but is 105 too close to bother.
mini groupo on line is super affordable.
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Old 07-09-20, 06:30 PM
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Shifting wise? Weight wise? Some other quality? Depends on what you want to compare.

Shifting wise I think that Shimano 105 5800 shifts as good or almost as good as Ultegra 6800. When those two groups were new back in 2017 I think along with DuraAce whatever number 7800 or 7900 the two or three articles I read stated the same. 105 shifts just as good as Ultegra. However they also said that DuraAce shifted better than both. While the articles I'm talking about are three or more years old and the Shimano's introduced some newer versions, I still imagine that the same holds true today.

Weight wise, Ultegra makes a pretty good difference over 105. I think I added up about a 1 pound difference for the entire groupset, but I might be confusing some other things so don't hold me to the exact number. But go pick up a DR of each or a cassette of each and you'll notice it just holding them.

Didn't look at DuraAce, but likely lighter still.

If you are comparing older groups than 5800 and 6800, then yes there is a difference. When they came out with 5800 is when the reviews changed their tune on 105's shifting being comparable to 6800
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Old 07-09-20, 06:35 PM
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We’re talking 9 speed and 10 speed, right?
Closest you will find to DA feel in 10 speed is Ultegra. Hands down. Solid stuff, lasts forever, sublime shifting.
105 10 speed had a number of issues, mostly mid-cassette shifting quality, while Ultegra avoided those issues. Not to say 105 ten speed is trash, jist not as good as Ultegra or DA.
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Old 07-09-20, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
We’re talking 9 speed and 10 speed, right?
Closest you will find to DA feel in 10 speed is Ultegra. Hands down. Solid stuff, lasts forever, sublime shifting.
105 10 speed had a number of issues, mostly mid-cassette shifting quality, while Ultegra avoided those issues. Not to say 105 ten speed is trash, jist not as good as Ultegra or DA.
What was the cause of the shifting differences? the shifters or the derailleurs?
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Old 07-10-20, 06:21 AM
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Each time you go up a level you get more alloy, more bearings, better tolerances.
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Old 07-10-20, 06:33 AM
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Shifters I've used in the past few years in order of preference. 6600>8000>5800>6700>7900. Never fortunate enough to use 7800. I understand that was the best ever.
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Old 07-10-20, 09:24 AM
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I always hear that technical and engineering upgrades start at Dura-Ace, then 'trickle-down' to Ultegra, which then trickles to 105, which then trickles to... yadayada. Pretty safe bet it almost never goes the other way. SO, wouldn't it follow that, at any given time, Ultegra has likely inherited some feature that hasn't made it to 105 yet? Ultegra would always "be ahead" on the migration scale. If you're looking at the two, made in the same year, I'd therefore think that Ultegra's got some form of a Dura-Ace feature that has not yet "flowed down" to 105 yet. What makes that "nearer to Dura-Ace" always uncertain is that we can't typically measure the marginal utility of each evolutionary feature (which can even be negative). That said, I have versions of all three of those groupsets in the garage, and I do personally see Ultegra as "the sweet spot" - I'd chose to pay up for Ultegra over 105, but I would not pay up for Dura-Ace over Ultegra. Personal preferences. (And the Campy SuperRecord looks better than all of them!)
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Old 07-10-20, 11:02 AM
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Historically 105 have been considered by most the sweetspot/best value for cost/performance I personally would not go lower than that on the shimano chain. I have 105 5800 (gen before 7000) and it has been great. of course about 2 weeks after I installed that i could have gotten ultegra 8000 for a similar prices

that said Ultegra is my favorite, has always worked great and is to me a noticeable step up from 105
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Old 07-10-20, 11:44 AM
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I have a 9 speed DA triple bike and a newer 10 speed 105 compact crank bike, with no brand name brake calipers. The DA brakes stop better. The 105 shifts with less force and the detent is still noticeable. I like the 105 10 speed better in warm weather. I ride in the winter with heavy gloves or thick goose down mittens. I can shift both in the cold. The added force and the bigger noise and feeling in the hands of the DA group is easier to get a perfect shift with gloves or mittens. I just shift carefully. No racing for me, just long rides. I've had the mittens about 50 years. They work on a motor cycle, but not as well.
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Old 07-10-20, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog View Post
no silly.
in actuality has does ultegra compare....more dura ace DNA or 105 .....
Living things have DNA metal does not.

you want opinions I guess.. & this place has many opinions...

I sense the lower cost parts , the engineering is in the machinery to produce adequate functioning components in the millions for cheap..
with no hand labor..
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Old 07-10-20, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Living things have DNA metal does not.

you want opinions I guess.. & this place has many opinions...

I sense the lower cost parts , the engineering is in the machinery to produce adequate functioning components in the millions for cheap..
with no hand labor..
holmes..it ok to say you don't know.
jonny I was hoping for a dialogue not an uneducated opinion.
but thanks.
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Old 07-10-20, 12:40 PM
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there is a functional difference between a pivot pin with an oil bushing around it, and a hole..

Tight tolerance vs Loose

I ride a Rohloff hub bike now , the Derailleur one hangs on a peg

Campag Euclid, Rally Mavic 851 My Shimano is an older LX deore..

I worked in bike shops

Watching the one more speeds makes 1 bike better than another

is just a spectator sport now.
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Old 07-10-20, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog View Post
holmes..it ok to say you don't know.
jonny I was hoping for a dialogue not an uneducated opinion.
but thanks.
Random irrelevant comments, just one reason someone is on the ignore list of 90% of BFers.
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Old 07-10-20, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Random irrelevant comments, just one reason someone is on the ignore list of 90% of BFers.
thanks bro.
maybe time to chill u seem tense.
glad ur well.
that bike again and kit what u got.
curious.😗
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Old 07-10-20, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog View Post
holmes..it ok to say you don't know.
jonny I was hoping for a dialogue not an uneducated opinion.
but thanks.
Are you saying he should say he doesn't know his own opinion? I'm pretty sure he does, and it seems like that is what you are seeking.

And by your standard of "educated," you should be ignoring anyone that isn't a Shimano engineer that worked on these specific components, no?

Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Random irrelevant comments, just one reason someone is on the ignore list of 90% of BFers.
Who is widely ignored? Hammer or Fiets?
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Old 07-10-20, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog View Post
thanks bro.
maybe time to chill u seem tense.
glad ur well.
that bike again and kit what u got.
curious.😗
??? I'm not sure what all that means but my post wasn't referring to you
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Old 07-10-20, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
Who is widely ignored? Hammer or Fiets?
Not Hammer AFAIK
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Old 07-10-20, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
Are you saying he should say he doesn't know his own opinion? I'm pretty sure he does, and it seems like that is what you are seeking.

And by your standard of "educated," you should be ignoring anyone that isn't a Shimano engineer that worked on these specific components, no?



Who is widely ignored? Hammer or Fiets?
sadly for u my friend I was seeking an informed opinion as in yes I used and btw here is my opinion.
kinda different but I fear over your head.
why play hate games yo. ride the bike share be kind
😀
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Old 07-10-20, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
??? I'm not sure what all that means but my post wasn't referring to you
ok.
good to know.
u still seem tense so chill just the same.
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Old 07-10-20, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog View Post
ok.
good to know.
u still seem tense so chill just the same.
Thanks, good advice, almost nap time
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