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Swapping out the small cog 11sp cassette

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Swapping out the small cog 11sp cassette

Old 07-16-20, 09:44 AM
  #1  
cthenn
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Swapping out the small cog 11sp cassette

Forgive me if this is dumb question, but I had this thought about my 11sp Shimano cassette. I'm running a 12-28 cassette, and I'm happy with the 16T in lieu of the 11T in an 11-28 cassette, as I use it far more than I would an 11T. However, I wonder if it's possible to have the best of both cassettes, and swap out the end cog (12T) on the cassette with an 11T? Right now, it goes 12, 13, 14....so it would go 11, 13, 14 if I swapped. Since it's the end cog, both are properly machined to be the end, so I can't imagine that part of it would be a problem. May have to also go with a lockring suited to an 11T end cog, which I also have. The jump from 11T to 13T doesn't seem like it would be a problem, so are there any other reasons why this would not work?
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Old 07-16-20, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
Forgive me if this is dumb question, but I had this thought about my 11sp Shimano cassette. I'm running a 12-28 cassette, and I'm happy with the 16T in lieu of the 11T in an 11-28 cassette, as I use it far more than I would an 11T. However, I wonder if it's possible to have the best of both cassettes, and swap out the end cog (12T) on the cassette with an 11T? Right now, it goes 12, 13, 14....so it would go 11, 13, 14 if I swapped. Since it's the end cog, both are properly machined to be the end, so I can't imagine that part of it would be a problem. May have to also go with a lockring suited to an 11T end cog, which I also have. The jump from 11T to 13T doesn't seem like it would be a problem, so are there any other reasons why this would not work?
thatís an 18% increase from the 13 to the 11 - thatís a big jump at that end of the cassette. Maybe if you saved it for special occasions, like suddenly finding yourself drafting on a long downhill, but personally I would find a jump that big to be too disruptive for normal riding - it would throw my cadence off completely, with the result that Iíd hardly ever use it. Iíd rather a 12 that I might (and do) use regularly than an 11 that gets very little use. YMMV, of course
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Old 07-16-20, 10:52 AM
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I hear you, that's why I like the 16 in the middle. It's one more cog in there with a single tooth jump, which is much more of a smooth transition. I'm way more often in that zone of the cassette than at the small end. The only real use I have for the 12 (or 11) is when I want to go fast on a descent. I don't have the power to push an 11 or 12 at a reasonable cadence on a flat road, so it's more or less there for downhills where I can push it for fun. So, the jump from a 13 to an 11 would not really be disruptive, again because I'm not really ever on those cogs for "normal" riding. But the question is can it be done or is there some mechanical reason why it can't?
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Old 07-16-20, 11:20 AM
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Sure. No problem swapping out the 11t for a 12t. I’ve swapped out a lot of cogs to get gapping that works for me.

I’m not sure of your 16t question. If you want to swap out a 16t, it all depends on the cassette and whether it is spidered together.

What speed cassette are you using?

Can you get to the 16t?

There is one last concern and that is whether the 16t cog is designed for a 1t tooth change or 2t+ tooth change. It has to do with the number of years ramps.

John
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Old 07-16-20, 11:24 AM
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No problem using 11t instead of 12t..... but you probably will need the lockring that goes with the 11t.... not the 12t lockring.
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Old 07-16-20, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Litespud View Post
thatís an 18% increase from the 13 to the 11 - thatís a big jump at that end of the cassette. Maybe if you saved it for special occasions, like suddenly finding yourself drafting on a long downhill, but personally I would find a jump that big to be too disruptive for normal riding - it would throw my cadence off completely, with the result that Iíd hardly ever use it. Iíd rather a 12 that I might (and do) use regularly than an 11 that gets very little use. YMMV, of course
I agree with you about the large jump.
However, how long does it take to swap the 12T back in if it turns out it's really not what the OP desired.
An 11-13 jump is quite common on mountain bike cassettes.
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Old 07-16-20, 01:10 PM
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The teeth are shaped for specific combinations so the new combo will shift definitely worse, but it will fit and may or may not feel acceptable.
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Old 07-16-20, 01:57 PM
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It will fit and work but, as cpac noted, the 11 to 13 shift will probably not be very good. If you are not rushed it will shift adequately but probably not under load. BTW, I'm also a big fan of the 16T cog but it's the first one to disappear when cassettes add an 11T cog or go larger than 27T or 28T.
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Old 07-16-20, 02:37 PM
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Just to reiterate you will need a 11t specific locking.
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Old 07-16-20, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by cpach View Post
The teeth are shaped for specific combinations so the new combo will shift definitely worse, but it will fit and may or may not feel acceptable.
OK, this is the kind of thing I was asking about. I didn't think of this but I get it. Thankfully it would be a shift at the end of the cassette and not used often, but at least now I know that's a possibility.
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Old 07-16-20, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
Sure. No problem swapping out the 11t for a 12t. I’ve swapped out a lot of cogs to get gapping that works for me.

I’m not sure of your 16t question. If you want to swap out a 16t, it all depends on the cassette and whether it is spidered together.

What speed cassette are you using?

Can you get to the 16t?

There is one last concern and that is whether the 16t cog is designed for a 1t tooth change or 2t+ tooth change. It has to do with the number of years ramps.

John
I just worded my question poorly. I want and like the 16T, but it's the first one Shimano takes out for most cassette combinations (other than the 12-28, and maybe a few others), hence the reason why I don't just use a standard 11-28. But my initial question was being able to keep the 16T that the 12-28 comes with, but being able to swap out a 12 with an 11 for those times I want to push hard or go fast on a downhill.
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Old 07-16-20, 05:46 PM
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What speed cassette do you have?

John
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Old 07-16-20, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cpach View Post
The teeth are shaped for specific combinations so the new combo will shift definitely worse, but it will fit and may or may not feel acceptable.
Yes, this is true. It has to do with the number of ramps on the hyperglide cog. I had mentioned it for the 16t, but it is just as valid with your 14t. I should have brought this up.

To backtrack a bit, if the 14t only has 1 tamp, it will shift slower going from a 12t to 14t than a 13t to 14t. If it has 2 ramps it will shift the same. Been there done that.

John
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Old 07-18-20, 03:53 AM
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If you look for the exploded EV drawings, you can check to see if part numbers of the cogs match with a different cassette that has 11,13 or 11,12,13 to the part numbers on your cassette. If they do match then there won't be problems with ramps. If not then it's a bit of chance on whether the shifting will be good.
i don't know about the 11 speed, but some Shimano 9 and 10 speed cassettes have the 12t cog designed to be in either first or second position, which means that the 11t can be placed on top of the 12t if desired. I can't remember if the 13t is then having a special built in spacer design with a counterbore recess for the 12t. The exploded drawings with the part numbers will give you a clue.
​​​​​​
My 9 and 10 speed cassettes 12-34 are both custom built from 11-30. They have 11,12,13 and I just drop the 11 and put on the locking for 12t. Or else they were 12-30 and I put the 11t on top of the 12t. But that's because the 12t on those specific cassettes were designed to be in either first or second position and probably the 13t is designed to be in either second or third position.

Currently I have 10 speed 12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,28,34.
If I had 11 speed then I would have either inserted a 16 or 11. The 16 would be nice for getting they 13.3% smaller. 11 would get me higher speed. Otherwise I could change the 24 to a 23 and get 11,12,13,14,15,16,18,20,23,28,34
The only way to get this custom built cassette in 11 speed is with Miche because the Shimano, SRAM, and sunrace have the 5 biggest cogs on spiders.

Last edited by tomtomtom123; 07-18-20 at 04:20 AM.
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