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new chain; skips; cassette ok

Old 09-11-20, 07:02 AM
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new chain; skips; cassette ok

Put a new chain on the Masi (along w/new tires, clean drivetrain, balance wheels, etc). Rode it, chain skips in the rear under heavy or even moderate pressure. Cassette is ok- no sharkfins; I keep my drivechains clean. This is the third chain for the cassette/chainrings. sup?
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Old 09-11-20, 07:05 AM
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Cassette is toast.
I've worn out plenty of cassettes, and none of them was visibly worn out.
I've only had sharkfinning on chainrings.
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Old 09-11-20, 07:06 AM
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Is it the same brand you usually use? My go to is Sram, I have tried KMC, and impossible not to make jump under load, no matter how much I toy with it.
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Old 09-11-20, 07:10 AM
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Cassette wear is notoriously difficult to diagnose visually. Replace it.
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Old 09-11-20, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Cassette wear is notoriously difficult to diagnose visually. Replace it.
The most reliable way to diagnose a worn cassette is to install a new chain and look for the symptoms as described in the OP. It has to be pretty far gone to be obvious visually in my experience.
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Old 09-11-20, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart
The most reliable way to diagnose a worn cassette is to install a new chain and look for the symptoms as described in the OP. It has to be pretty far gone to be obvious visually in my experience.
Couldn't agree more. It's quite difficult to visually diagnose a worn cassette. What you usually find is that the chain will skip in the middle of the cassette on the gears that see the most use but, will still shift ok in the upper and lower gears.
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Old 09-11-20, 07:38 AM
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I have been through this and would have sworn the cassette was fine. Changed the cassette and the drivetrain magically started operating properly.
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Old 09-11-20, 08:11 AM
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Cassette - replaced mine under same circumstances - all is good.

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Old 09-11-20, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by epnnf
This is the third chain for the cassette/chainrings. sup?
Third chain in the life of that cassette? Or the third chain you've tried and they all exhibit this issue?

If three chains for one replacement period then I'd think you've spent the cost of a cassette. So try it.

If you've replaced two other chains at normal intervals and this it the third time, then that cassette is probably worn out along with the chain rings maybe.

We don't need to ask if you used the correct speed chain do we?
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Old 09-11-20, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Third chain in the life of that cassette? Or the third chain you've tried and they all exhibit this issue?

If three chains for one replacement period then I'd think you've spent the cost of a cassette. So try it.

If you've replaced two other chains at normal intervals and this it the third time, then that cassette is probably worn out along with the chain rings maybe.

We don't need to ask if you used the correct speed chain do we?
Third chain in the life of the cassette & no, you don't have to ask if I used the correct speed chain (9 speed).
FTR, I change chains about every 9 months/1500 miles or so.
The previous 2 chains worked fine.
My LBS always wants $ for new chainrings whenever the cassette is changed.
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Old 09-11-20, 02:03 PM
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My experience, starting with 5 spd FW and now with 11 spd cassettes is that once you have worn out two chains
the FW/cassette will object to the 3d chain and need to be changed. When the 3d chain wears out, chainwheels
get to be at or near EOL, more so with 2x than 3x. Unfortunately with SRAM/Shimano/FSA and some others
price of a pair of new chainwheels is such that it makes some sense to just get a new crankset for not much
more.
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Old 09-11-20, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by epnnf
Third chain in the life of the cassette & no, you don't have to ask if I used the correct speed chain (9 speed).
FTR, I change chains about every 9 months/1500 miles or so.
The previous 2 chains worked fine.
My LBS always wants $ for new chainrings whenever the cassette is changed.
In my experience, a chainrings last many times longer than a cassette. Symptom of a worn-out chainring will be "chainsuck" when a new chain is installed. i.e. instead of smoothly leaving the chainring on its return to the RD, it will "stick" to the bottom of the chainring. In a mild case, it makes a rattling noise as the RD tugs it off the chainring. In a severe case it remains stuck to the chainring and gets rammed into the underside of the FD.
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Old 09-11-20, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by sch
My experience, starting with 5 spd FW and now with 11 spd cassettes is that once you have worn out two chains
the FW/cassette will object to the 3d chain and need to be changed. When the 3d chain wears out, chainwheels
get to be at or near EOL, more so with 2x than 3x. Unfortunately with SRAM/Shimano/FSA and some others
price of a pair of new chainwheels is such that it makes some sense to just get a new crankset for not much
more.
It depends on how much you favor a few cogs. I ride cassettes with one tooth jumps to the 19T, don't neglect any apart from the small cog, and have 25,000 miles on my current cassette that's on its 6th and probably last chain.

It also depends on how worn you let it get which depends on chain metallurgy. I run Campagnolo chains with front shift degradation from increased lateral flexibility as they reach 1/32" of elongation around 4500 miles. Wippermann chains reportedly grow slowly too.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 09-12-20 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 09-11-20, 02:41 PM
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You have checked that it's not just that coincidentally the DR needs some adjustment? little more or less cable (barrel adjuster) or bent hangar?
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Old 09-11-20, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Shimagnolo
In my experience, a chainrings last many times longer than a cassette. Symptom of a worn-out chainring will be "chainsuck" when a new chain is installed. i.e. instead of smoothly leaving the chainring on its return to the RD, it will "stick" to the bottom of the chainring. In a mild case, it makes a rattling noise as the RD tugs it off the chainring. In a severe case it remains stuck to the chainring and gets rammed into the underside of the FD.
This. I'm dealing with this exact situation right now on my primary bike. Probably the easiest ways to tell are: 1) put a new cassette on and see if the problem went away OR 2) have someone watch you from the drive side and look for the chain to ride up the chainring instead of releasing (if you don't have an observer... look down at the RD and see if it "JUMPS" on the skips... that'd be chain suck).
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Old 09-11-20, 10:47 PM
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If you still have your old chain, measure it for "stretch". If the chain is 1/8" (or more) longer over 12", then the elongated probably reshaped the cogs such that a new chain won't mesh properly, causing the chain to skip/slip.
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Old 09-12-20, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Cassette wear is notoriously difficult to diagnose visually. Replace it.
I agree its the cassette, but from experience Ive noticed the skipping may subside if you ride the new chain for a little while. No need to replace it right away unless the skipping is severe and dangerous.
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Old 09-12-20, 12:30 AM
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Many years ago the third chain I installed on my 6500 cassette started skipping almost immediately upon installation. I think it may have been the 3rd or 4th gear but I can't remember for sure. I thought maybe I could ride it out into shape but that didn't work. So I changed the cassette and skipping continued. So I put on a new chain and all was well. I think I ruined the barely used third chain by running it out a worn out cassette. My rule of thumb after that was two chains for each cassette. I know there are people who post about getting extraordinary miles on their drive-train but I'm pretty skeptical. I ride in good conditions and have always been pretty fastidious about cleaning. Generally I change a chain between 2,000-2,500 miles (I've not noticed faster wear on my 10 and 11 speed bikes btw), so I do think that changing a chain at 1,500 miles as the poster did seems a little quick--but then again I don't know that conditions he riding in. It's a wear part(s) and I'm actually fairly happy I've been able to ride enough to need to replace them.
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Old 09-12-20, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by epnnf
Third chain in the life of the cassette & no, you don't have to ask if I used the correct speed chain (9 speed).
FTR, I change chains about every 9 months/1500 miles or so.
The previous 2 chains worked fine.
My LBS always wants $ for new chainrings whenever the cassette is changed.
If I changed a chain every 1500 miles or so, I would be running through a chain every month. I run the chain through a Park "Chain Gang" cleaner every week, then put fresh lube. This makes the driveline last much longer. I get about a year of hard riding out of a chain, in my racing days chains and cassettes were replaced at the same time, otherwise I would have the skipping problem.
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Old 09-12-20, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan
I agree its the cassette, but from experience Ive noticed the skipping may subside if you ride the new chain for a little while. No need to replace it right away unless the skipping is severe and dangerous.
Sure, but that would be because the chain is wearing prematurely.
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Old 09-12-20, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Sure, but that would be because the chain is wearing prematurely.
Not from my experience. It may be in theory but I have done so in the past and not noticed anything unusual. That one cassette displayed a bit of skipping from the first to the second chain, but it quickly subsided. I did replace the second chain a bit sooner than the first one, that was very worn, but only to not have skipping on the third chain, that is on now. - not because it was faster wearing. At least not to a noticeable degree. YMMV. and all that.
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Old 09-12-20, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Not from my experience. It may be in theory but I have done so in the past and not noticed anything unusual. That one cassette displayed a bit of skipping from the first to the second chain, but it quickly subsided. I did replace the second chain a bit sooner than the first one, that was very worn, but only to not have skipping on the third chain, that is on now. - not because it was faster wearing. At least not to a noticeable degree. YMMV. and all that.
I will say that, when I put a new chain on a fairly-used cassette, I can feel and hear the two trying to "mesh" (for lack of a better word) for, perhaps, a hundred miles or so (broad estimate - I don't pay close attention) until the chain 'wears in' to the cassette teeth. It's very subtle, and some riders may not notice it at all. So, I would suspect that I just change out a cassette a bit earlier, and you are willing to use it a but longer. But I would definitely replace a cassette if I get skipping with a new chain. If I am slogging my way up some big hill, at a low cadence and slow speed, I don't want my chain skipping.
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Old 09-12-20, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
If I am slogging my way up some big hill, at a low cadence and slow speed, I don't want my chain skipping.
This...
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Old 09-14-20, 05:07 PM
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Update: got new cassette- problem solved! (after slight adjustment)
ummm, my cassette has seen ... 4 previous chains, not 2 as I previously stated
This is my old cassette:

(ignore date)
ty for all replies/great conversation
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Old 09-14-20, 05:35 PM
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FWIW, I generally get about 3 chains per cassette before I have shifting issues or skips. So, sounds right to me.
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