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Balky brifter, this piece fell out--what is it?

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Balky brifter, this piece fell out--what is it?

Old 09-28-20, 10:32 AM
  #1  
sapporoguy
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Balky brifter, this piece fell out--what is it?

Shimano ST-6510 brake shifter always worked fine. Suddenly I began having trouble indexing. It wouldn't shift to some bigger cassette cogs without an additional shifter nudge. I turned the barrel adjuster out on the RD and it would shift better to big cogs, but now hung up when going to a smaller cogs. Can't get it to index properly both ways.
I removed the brifter, sprayed innards with WD-40, lubed it with Tri-Flo, put it back on.
Then I noticed this little piece (pic below) stuck inside. Looks like part of a broken spring.
What is it? Could it explain my problem? If so, anyone have experience replacing these? (The innards look hopelessly complex on youtube videos I've watched.)
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Old 09-28-20, 10:43 AM
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Maybe part of the return spring that got distorted and broken before falling out for you? item 12 on the exploded view. https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/s...6510-1950A.pdf

Don't know that you can buy just that from Shimano though.
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Old 09-28-20, 10:50 AM
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Having been inside some newer brifters to retrieve a small retaining screw that fell out of the nameplate, and into the innards, thus preventing the brake lever from returning....the guts of a brifter are quite complex, as you've noted. Also, when reassembling the springs must be set properly (and it is not easy to get them in position) for the levers to work properly. Have you considered just replacing it? It may be easier than trying source a small part Shimano may or may not still have, and it will definitely be easier to install a complete brighter than fiddle with removing and reinstalling a lever. As I recall, my adventure in side the brifter took me about 90 minutes and multiple attempts to get everything seats and situated properly. YMMV, just my 2 cents.
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Old 09-28-20, 11:06 AM
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Shimano Total Integration combination shifting/brake lever (for drop handlebar) please.
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Old 09-28-20, 11:07 AM
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In other news, best to replace the whole shifter unless you want to fiddle around with it for a day.
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Old 09-28-20, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sapporoguy View Post
What is it?
That's the "Time to buy new Shifters" part.
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Old 09-28-20, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by leob1 View Post
That's the "Time to buy new Shifters" part.
Ha! What part number is that?
This may give me an excuse to buy some Gevenalle lever/shifters.
Thanks everyone for the useful input.
For now, I did this:
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Old 09-28-20, 02:17 PM
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This detailed photo series of a ST-7400-R rebuild might offer a clue.
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Old 09-28-20, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
Shimano Total Integration combination shifting/brake lever (for drop handlebar) please.
...aaannnddd we just reached the character limit for the thread title, without including the actual question.
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Old 09-28-20, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Thanks! I think this is it right here, about 12 pix down in the series:
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Old 09-28-20, 04:00 PM
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I've successfully rebuilt a Campy 10sp Chorus shifter but I could not get a Shimano MTB type shifter to work properly again and fugheddabout a Shimano road shifter. Good luck.
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Old 09-28-20, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by zacster View Post
I've successfully rebuilt a Campy 10sp Chorus shifter but I could not get a Shimano MTB type shifter to work properly again and fugheddabout a Shimano road shifter. Good luck.
I'm a compulsive tinkerer and taker-apart-of-things, so I'd try if the part were available. Which it appears not to be. But I may as well take it apart to confirm my suspicions and present it in pieces as an offering to the angry gods of Mt. Velo.
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Old 09-28-20, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
In other news, best to replace the whole shifter unless you want to fiddle around with it for a day.
It's not a matter of not being willing to "fiddle around for a day", it's a matter of not being able to source the part and not being able to repair the shifter anyway. They were never intended to be user serviceable and Shimano never made repair parts or instructions available.
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Old 09-28-20, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
It's not a matter of not being willing to "fiddle around for a day", it's a matter of not being able to source the part and not being able to repair the shifter anyway. They were never intended to be user serviceable and Shimano never made repair parts or instructions available.
If the spring just popped out of place, fiddling and fluting could help. Curse Shimano and their cleverness!
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Old 09-29-20, 06:47 AM
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I always try to fix these things and always enjoy the journey of taking them apart. I came across one where one of the tiny torsion springs on one pawl had somehow slipped off and I was able to fix it. I thought it was a couple of hours well spent.

But looking at the photo of the entire spring in post 10, I agree there's nothing to be done in this case.
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Old 09-29-20, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by sapporoguy View Post
Ha! What part number is that?
This may give me an excuse to buy some Gevenalle lever/shifters.
Thanks everyone for the useful input.
For now, I did this:
Ive used a pair for about 4 years and they are a neat bit of kit.
Just be aware that they arent as fast shifting and fun as brifters, and do require a certain amount of finger and hand gymnastics (which don't bother me) but might not be up your alley if your bike is a fast and lots of shifting bike with a close cassette etc etc--but you'll only know when you try them.
I set mine up on a touring bike, so generally a more laid back riding and shifting style, and of course the simplicity appealed to me as I was setting up my more expeditiony touring bike for far off trips, so they fit the bill perfectly for the robustness angle, and I wasnt keen on going bar end shifters.

When I got mine, I was fairly sure I would like them, but figured I could easily sell them if they really didnt agree with me. (had never seen anyone else with them up here in Canada so had no way to even put hands on a bike with them)
Is your bike 9, 10, 11 speed?
I know Gevenalle used to have quite a range of options, also short pull and long pull options, and now hydro brake options too---but you'll have to check as I'm sure things have changed over time, not to mention the covid effect also.
Oh, they also used to have road derailleur shifting cable pull options vs mtb dynasis options, so keep this in mind when looking at the models.
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Old 09-29-20, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
Is your bike 9, 10, 11 speed?
I know Gevenalle used to have quite a range of options
9-speed, and it looks like Gevenalle still offers quite a few options. I'd probably get the short-pull with their indexable RD shifter. I'm already getting used to the bar-end shifter I put on as a stop-gap, so I suspect I'll like Gevenalle's shifters. These are on our Co-Mo tandem, which we've set up mainly for touring, so the simplicity is a big appeal and rapid shifting isn't crucial.
Which version did you get, their indexible shifters or the friction shifters?
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Old 09-29-20, 03:19 PM
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I got the long pull version--specifically for avid BB7 mtb disc brakes, and 9 speed. I've spent months on this bike touring, a couple of months through Central America, about 6 weeks through parts of Mexico, another month across France, and then rides here and there--and I still like riding that bike, so they do agree with me.
I mentioned the whole sti experience, just because I still really like the faster shifting experience on my sti bike, also 9 spd .
9 spd Sora sti shifters are a lot better than the old 8 spd sora that had the thumb shifter, newer sora now has a paddle and feels very similar to my 9 spd tiagra sti's. Keep Sora shifters in mind if you think you'd like to stick with sti. I put a pair of newer sora sti on a bike for my wife and thats why I can compare them to my old tiagras.
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Old 09-29-20, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
Keep Sora shifters in mind if you think you'd like to stick with sti.
I was just looking at Sora shifters online and wondering about them, so this helps. I shall consider them. I prefer friction shift for the FD but could just keep my left-hand bar-end.
Question: Would your long-pull+MTB disc give better braking than short-pull+road disc? I ask because I'm really not totally happy with the braking on the tandem (trp mini-v on front, trp hy/rd disc on back)
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Old 09-29-20, 04:11 PM
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re the models
you said short pull for road brakes I guess (cantis are short pull, v brakes are long pull, disc depends on models)
make sure about the rd details , dynasis or not or whatever

I got indexed, I haven't ridden a rd friction bike since probably the 70s, and all of my indexed bikes, including my old dt shifter touring bike, have always always just plain worked (assuming all the basics are covered, shifters cables housings ) and the Gevenalles have shifted perfectly fine. The only hiccup I had was my own fault-I installed a cheap inline barrel adjuster that kept coming out of adjustment. My rd doesnt have a barrel adjuster on it, a 9 spd era XTR, so I had to put one somewhere--I just screwed up and didnt put the right thing on. Once I corrected that, the shifters and rd work perfectly fine together.

all that to say, I don't really get the friction thing--oh, dont forget, these shifters do have a little tab thingee so that you can switch it to friction if you want---remember, these were made for cyclocross racing, where MUCHO MUD can be a real issue with buildup and screwing up shifting, and / or a crash or whatever where a rd could get bent or something.
Also, for racers, they provide an inexpensive rebuild policy, like 30 bucks or something, if you manage to eff them up somehow.

and yes, the fd friction function works like a charm, just like a dt bike, or bar end shifters. A really nice change from sti and the KATHUNK downshifts with chainrings. There is a really nice, peaceful, super quiet thing with friction fd shifting, and again, for touring its perfectly fine ( imo )

oh, and the ability to downshift a whole shedload of gears at the back with one large sweep is actually useful sometimes with a loaded bike.
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Old 09-29-20, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by sapporoguy View Post
I was just looking at Sora shifters online and wondering about them, so this helps. I shall consider them. I prefer friction shift for the FD but could just keep my left-hand bar-end.
Question: Would your long-pull+MTB disc give better braking than short-pull+road disc? I ask because I'm really not totally happy with the braking on the tandem (trp mini-v on front, trp hy/rd disc on back)
we were both typing earlier, so didnt see this
before I forget, my wifes bike had the old type soras with thumb shifter, and they worked but felt chintzy. When one broke, the new sora with paddles really did feel so much nicer, and very similar feel to my old tiagras. Trickle down does happen.

re brake power. Sorry, I am new to disc brakes (4 years maybe) and so only have experience with Avid BB7's mtb on my Troll. In really hilly places like Guatemala and Honduras, I found them to work pretty dman well on my fairly heavily loaded bike, and coming from 30 years of touring with rim brakes, to me they work great, so much stronger braking with so much less finger pressure. So much more relaxed knowing I could dump a lot of speed easily and quickly meant downhills required less super attention to speed and road conditions---BUT dont forget, braking is so much dependent on proper braking technique--ie not dragging the brakes (heat buildup) and hammering the front brake hard , and generally short but hard braking applications, then let off, let bike go, then hammer again. No dragging.
Plus I'm a light bugger, so that helps a great deal, and I once raced motorcycles so am very comfortable hammering front brake and letting a bike run up speed before bringing the speed down.
Of course, larger rotors help you tandem folks with so much more weight.

so sorry, not really sure, but I suspect mtb stuff with larger rotors and made for lots of heavy use mountain biking probably have an advantage over light roadie stuff.......
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