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2008 Lemond Tete - rear drop out!

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2008 Lemond Tete - rear drop out!

Old 11-06-20, 08:45 AM
  #1  
tbrodzeller
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2008 Lemond Tete - rear drop out?

Hello!

I have a 2008 Lemond Tete. It’s been an absolute dream for me.

I had an incident with my rear derailleur, and am trying to repair the rear drop out.

Does anyone know if all of this drop out is metal?

Can I safely drill two small holes in this area?

(picture updated after initial post)



Id like to add the screws for this replaceable Derailleur hanger I added.






Thank you in advance!!

Last edited by tbrodzeller; 11-06-20 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 11-06-20, 10:04 AM
  #2  
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This is a carbon frameset with metal dropouts. I guess the dropouts are bonded to the stay, so the question is how much metal is there? The real question is , why would you want to drill 2 holes in this location?
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Old 11-06-20, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Steelman54 View Post
This is a carbon frameset with metal dropouts. I guess the dropouts are bonded to the stay, so the question is how much metal is there? The real question is , why would you want to drill 2 holes in this location?
I purchased this hanger to repair the frame...it worked great on a short test ride, and a 50 miler this week.

But, I'd like add the retaining screws so I can remove the rear wheel as needed.




I don't want to ruin the frame by adding the holes.

I plan to machine down the stay slightly (to remove the current "lip" on both sides). I know I have to keep it perfectly flat and square.

Thanks in advance for the help!
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Old 11-06-20, 11:56 AM
  #4  
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I would say that those are the two places I wouldn't drill holes, as there are already stress concentrations there.
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Old 11-06-20, 12:20 PM
  #5  
tbrodzeller
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
I would say that those are the two places I wouldn't drill holes, as there are already stress concentrations there.
The location of the holes are shown here in the red circles.


Would you agree the rear hole is "safe" from a stress standpoint?

That would allow the hanger to rotate forward when the rear wheel is removed...but at least it would stay attached to the frame and I think would be "better"??

(I see what you are saying with the stress area where the top/front hole would need to be added...)

*I did update the picture in my initial post to better show the hole location.

As a secondary question, the red line shows the current "lip" that I planed to machine down. My thought was with that flat, and using the screws, is the added metal from the hanger would help maintain the integrity of the dropout?

Last edited by tbrodzeller; 11-06-20 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 11-06-20, 02:51 PM
  #6  
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I believe the OP had a hanger damaging incident and the OEM one will no longer do it's job. So the OP is trying to find a solution to continue riding this frame and have a rear der on it.

For me to render an opinion will require more info, and I'm not going to spend the time to do the research so unless someone (the OP?) give us more data I'll keep my thoughts to myself.

The questions I have are: Drop out material. What happened to the OEM hanger (and the assumption that the OEM hanger wasn't a replaceable type). Rear hub brand/model (or more to this aspect can the DS axle end be made longer to overlap with the new hanger's slot). Whether it's the new hanger that would get flattened out by the OP's machining down or the frame's drop out face. Andy
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Old 11-06-20, 04:16 PM
  #7  
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jb weld? I've never used it but others swear by it for all kinds of applications. clean both surfaces very well, apply, use the wheel & QR to clamp. LIke for any claw mount derailleur and many replaceable hangers, the QR will provide the bulk of the holding power when riding and shifting. The small bolts/jb just holds the der on when you remove the wheel.


There is another brand of emergency replacement hanger. Held in place by the qr and shaped so it would fit nearly any bike. brand is ...... slipped my mind.

Problem Solvers has one:


Problem Solvers

Wheels Manufacturing has another.

Wheels Manufacturing
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Old 11-06-20, 10:29 PM
  #8  
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Andy

Thank you for your help.
My answers are below

Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
I believe the OP had a hanger damaging incident and the OEM one will no longer do it's job. So the OP is trying to find a solution to continue riding this frame and have a rear der on it.



For me to render an opinion will require more info, and I'm not going to spend the time to do the research so unless someone (the OP?) give us more data I'll keep my thoughts to myself.

The questions I have are: Drop out material. What happened to the OEM hanger (and the assumption that the OEM hanger wasn't a replaceable type). Rear hub brand/model (or more to this aspect can the DS axle end be made longer to overlap with the new hanger's slot). Whether it's the new hanger that would get flattened out by the OP's machining down or the frame's drop out face. Andy
Yes, OEM non-replaceable hanger was damaged beyond repair.




I used a hacksaw and file to remove it and make room for the replaceable hanger I bought online (see pics above)

Here’s some better pictures.





This repair “worked” and I did a 50 mile ride a few days ago with no issues.

The problem is I can’t currently remove the rear wheel without the hanger coming out of position.

I was hoping to do a “proper” repair and and add holes to the frame and the screws to keep the hanger in position and allow wheel removal.





I cant find information online about the dropout material. And where/if I can safely drill and add these holes.

I love this frame and don’t want to scrap it.
I don’t want to wreck it by drilling holes.

Im trying to repair it “right”.

I considered (and am still considering) JB weld or epoxy to keep the hanger in place, but was hoping for a more professional repair.


“Rear hub brand/model (or more to this aspect can the DS axle end be made longer to overlap with the new hanger's slot”

I didn’t consider this or think it was important...



again, I appreciate help and input on this.
I’ve never attempted a repair like this.
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Old 11-06-20, 11:12 PM
  #9  
Russ Roth
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You're talking about two small holes in what looks to be a thick enough area. I would mill down the raised section that the QR clamps to, and slowly drill out the holes, make sure you size the bit correctly to the tap. I'm guessing from the damage you show that the metal is aluminum since I haven't seen a steel hanger stretched like that at the threads but have seen similar damage on aluminum frames from before replaceable hangers.
Really it isn't a huge stress riser area since the hanger under load from the QR adds its own strength and being a vertical drop out the hanger isn't trying to twist out of place. Your frame is already ruined, you won't make it worse, if it starts to crack there you should feel anything. I'd say go for it.
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Old 11-07-20, 05:18 AM
  #10  
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One other option would be to 3D print a derailleur hanger that locks in by having extended notches under the dropout so it locks in place and doesn't swing.
I have made a 3D printed hanger for my bike of which the hanger is not available anymore, and it works like a dream.

You need to make a CAD drawing of the hanger, in which you make the hole smaller so you can tap it with M10x1.0.
Then you order it from a website like Shapeways to print it out of metal. My hanger was like 22 euro after I made the design myself.

Unfortunately I am not yet allowed to post a picture of it.
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Old 11-07-20, 07:26 AM
  #11  
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I'm a bit of a hack mechanic, but I have to agree with dsbrantjr, no way would I drill holes where you are thinking of doing so.

JB weld might work, but it will be a one time repair. Place it right the first time and forever live with the consequences.

You have a step shaped notch in the back of the old hanger stub. I would consider drilling a small hole in the new derailleur hanger to fit into that notch and hold it in place. the hanger will still come loose when you pull the wheel, but it should be quick to realign properly when putting the wheel back on. It will also help anchor the hanger to keep it from twisting. The obvious advantage of modifying the hanger is it is replaceable, whereas the drop out is not.
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Old 11-07-20, 07:38 AM
  #12  
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For the, hopefully, rare occasion you have to repair a rear flat on the road, I would not compromise that rear dropout further by drilling holes in it. I would scribe a couple of "witness marks" across the hanger and dropout to make it easier to realign them when you have to remove the rear wheel.
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Old 11-07-20, 10:04 AM
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I'm with the no drilling crowd on this one. JB Weld isn't usually the solution for broken frame parts but in this case I think it would be the best solution as you're only depending on it to hold the hanger in place while removing the wheel while the quick release supplies the strength for riding. If you go this route use the regular, slow cure JB as it's much stronger than the quick cure version. Also the slow cure gives you plenty of time to position the hanger. You could even epoxy the hanger in place, install the wheel and go for a ride to make certain it's positioned right and then wait 24 hrs for it to completely cure with the wheel in place and a firmly clamped quick release. Make sure all surfaces are clean and a light sanding helps with adhesion.

Last edited by Crankycrank; 11-08-20 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 11-07-20, 10:33 AM
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Based on the 2008 Lemond catalog (see page 6 of https://www.vintage-trek.com/Trek-Fis...2008lemond.pdf, the dropouts are manufactured from carbon. SO does not seem like a good idea to be drilling holes.
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Old 11-07-20, 10:40 AM
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I absolutely would not drill the holes. The existing drop out is bonded into the frame and the holes look like they will go directly through the existing bond line that has already taken a non-standard load with the original damage. Also, the edge distance on at least the aft hole is too low for a composite material. I know the clamping action of the QR will hold things in place but it will not remove all the loads and vibration along that bond line. Long term I would expect a failure.

Permanently bonding the new hangar in place is a good solution and the original hanger was meant to be permanently in place anyway. If you want to make it easier to remove the hanger in case of any future hanger damage you may be better off using a structural two sided tape like the appropriate 3M VHB (very high bond) tape. You would need to select one with a thin bond line. It does not come apart easily, but could be removed with a sharp edge like a razor blade if necessary.

Don't drill the holes.
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Old 11-07-20, 11:01 AM
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Another vote for ”don’t drill”. It’s clearly seen on the damage pic that the DO only has a thin metal skin on CF.
Either glue or live with manual repositioning every time you’ve had the wheel out.
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Old 11-07-20, 02:03 PM
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Another vote for "no drilling". As pointed out above, the specs in the catalog for the 2008 Tete say that they're carbon dropouts. Is that so?

If the hanger and dropout were metal (e.g. Titanium) and one piece, you might be able to find someone who would replace the whole shebang. This would involve tangs extending into the stays, supplemental carbon material, and probably better adhesive than off-the-shelf Home Depot epoxy.

Do you remove the wheel often? If not, I'd probably try an epoxy bond to hold the hanger in place. If you remove the wheel all the time (e.g. to put it on a car rack or in the back of your car) then I'd explore having the frame repaired with a new dropout.

BTW, if the dropout IS Titanium 1) you did a great job in cleaning it up, and 2) drilling into it won't be very easy. Use a drill press, and make sure sure to use the proper speed and feed. This avoids work-hardening the Ti, and snapping off a drill in the hole.
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Old 11-07-20, 06:27 PM
  #18  
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Have you contacted a company for repair, such as Calfee?
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Old 11-07-20, 11:57 PM
  #19  
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Thank you all very much! This is incredibly helpful.
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Old 11-08-20, 11:03 AM
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Looking at your pic in the first post, I’m with the no drill crowd.

I’d mill a hanger to index into the opening in the drop out.
That would give you a reproducible location for the RD upon reinstalling the rear wheel.

Barry
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Old 11-08-20, 06:44 PM
  #21  
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Thank you again everyone.
I’m so appreciative of the help.

I have installed the hanger with epoxy and will check/verify the repair in 24 hours.

It appears this will be a good long term fix.


Thanks again!




Last edited by tbrodzeller; 11-08-20 at 10:54 PM.
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