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What mastermind came up with this?

Old 11-11-20, 10:37 AM
  #1  
Ryan_M
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What mastermind came up with this?

I was on a ride yesterday and noticed my tire going flat, it was on smooth pavement so must have been a bit of glass or something. Bummer! but I ride with patches, spare tube, and tools so only a minor inconvenince. My bike is "tubeless ready" but I never really looked much farther into converting to tubeless because I'm not really sold on trusting a fluid to seal my tire. I got the bike flipped up and noticed some milky fluid bubbling out of the tire. So they were running tubeless, and also my lack of trust in the fluid to seal a puncture proved valid lol. It was a tiny slit ~3mm - see pic below. As I mentioned I'm not that knowledgeable on tubeless but know that they are supposed to seal so I started pumping the tire but the fluid was still spitting out. Oh well, I have a tube so I'll put that in.

I fought to get the tire off and couldn't believe what I saw. These tires have an integral tube. They dont seal themselves, I cant repair them, I cant patch them, I can't put a tube in to get me home. Get a flat with these tires and you're either walking home or waiting for a ride. Perhaps a plug kit would have worked but still, who thought designing a tire like this was a good idea?! It must have been some big cost saving measure vs. doing a proper tubeless setup or a normal tire with tube to supply a bike with these. Luckily I was only 5km from home and was riding with my GF so after about 40 minutes on the side of the trail trying to figure out what to do, I ended up using her bike to ride home to get my truck to circle back and pick her and my bike up.

Also now I'm grounded until I get new tires, and in this market of anything bike being in short supply at inflated prices I'm likely going to have to take what I can get instead of getting what I want. What a PITA!!!



Small slit in tire


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Old 11-11-20, 10:41 AM
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Thanks much for the Pics.
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Old 11-11-20, 11:01 AM
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Is it not just the tube stuck to the tire casing?
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Old 11-11-20, 11:06 AM
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I guess your bike should have come with the kit Giant describes in this video?
Giant Bicycles: How to fix a flat on an ERT tire
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Old 11-11-20, 11:09 AM
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Sort of like it's own rim strip built in. Not so much an inner tube. I don't know what to think of them, but if you look at the comment in the reviews it's suggested that there is a one year warranty. What circumstances that covers I have no idea.

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/crosscut-at-ert-2019

So you've been tubeless and didn't know it. Or at least you are somewhere inbetween and need to treat it as tubeless with whatever sealant additions and other PM that requires.
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Old 11-11-20, 11:09 AM
  #6  
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
Is it not just the tube stuck to the tire casing?
That's what I thought at first, but nope

INTEGRATED AIR CHAMBER

Inflating a tubeless tire can be tricky for even the most experienced rider. With the integrated air chamber holding the air, pumping up an EasyRide tubeless tire is a snap! Adding Giant tubeless sealant into the chamber before inflation also helps avoid punctures and flats, so you can enjoy the ride with less worry!
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Old 11-11-20, 11:14 AM
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Someone wanted to lower purchase cost for the sort of consumer who shops on price instead of quality. This sort of thing lowers manufacturing cost by $0.13 per bike. Moo.
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Old 11-11-20, 11:15 AM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by Ryan_M View Post
I was on a ride yesterday and noticed my tire going flat, it was on smooth pavement so must have been a bit of glass or something. Bummer! but I ride with patches, spare tube, and tools so only a minor inconvenince. My bike is "tubeless ready" but I never really looked much farther into converting to tubeless because I'm not really sold on trusting a fluid to seal my tire. I got the bike flipped up and noticed some milky fluid bubbling out of the tire. So they were running tubeless, and also my lack of trust in the fluid to seal a puncture proved valid lol. It was a tiny slit ~3mm - see pic below. As I mentioned I'm not that knowledgeable on tubeless but know that they are supposed to seal so I started pumping the tire but the fluid was still spitting out. Oh well, I have a tube so I'll put that in.

I fought to get the tire off and couldn't believe what I saw. These tires have an integral tube. They dont seal themselves, I cant repair them, I cant patch them, I can't put a tube in to get me home. Get a flat with these tires and you're either walking home or waiting for a ride. Perhaps a plug kit would have worked but still, who thought designing a tire like this was a good idea?! It must have been some big cost saving measure vs. doing a proper tubeless setup or a normal tire with tube to supply a bike with these. Luckily I was only 5km from home and was riding with my GF so after about 40 minutes on the side of the trail trying to figure out what to do, I ended up using her bike to ride home to get my truck to circle back and pick her and my bike up.

Also now I'm grounded until I get new tires, and in this market of anything bike being in short supply at inflated prices I'm likely going to have to take what I can get instead of getting what I want. What a PITA!!!
Inflate and ride it, see if it seals.

You might need some fresh tubeless goop. I'd just go with 2 oz in that tyre.

How long have you had the bike? Here in the desert we have to top off tubeless goop every 3 months, but in wetter climes I hear of people going 9 months before adding goop.

If the cut is too big to seal, Giant has a baconstrips style plug kit. I imagine any tubeless tire plug kit would work, however.

Then when you've worn out these tires you can get some tubed ones if you prefer.
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Old 11-11-20, 11:16 AM
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What a drag. I'm not sure if you tried this, but sometimes spinning the wheel can help seal a small puncture or at least turning the wheel so the puncture is at the bottom, where the fluid is. Otherwise for a bigger hole you will most likely need a plug kit. Giant has a video on their website. Your tire should be salvageable. Good luck
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Old 11-11-20, 11:20 AM
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Tubeless? It's like a heavyweight tube with a tread...
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Old 11-11-20, 11:25 AM
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Unlike car rims bicycle rims have spokes. Tubeless bike tires and wheels seem like kind of a dumb idea.
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Old 11-11-20, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Charliekeet View Post
I guess your bike should have come with the kit Giant describes in this video?
Giant Bicycles: How to fix a flat on an ERT tire
Wow, what a failed system. "emergency" repair only then buy a new tire.

I wonder if an auto plug would work as well?

https://www.autozone.com/tire-repair...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
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Old 11-11-20, 12:37 PM
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So just how long have you been rolling around on these tires?
Tubeless tires do require maintenance in the way of fresh sealant.

About every 3 months, I used a syringe to remove the old sealant (just to find out what's left) and I replace with fresh sealant.

Although I will say.....
1. Being unable to get the inside of the tire does stop you being able to apply a patch for larger holes.
2. I bet your rims are nice and clean.

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Old 11-11-20, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
Inflate and ride it, see if it seals.

You might need some fresh tubeless goop. I'd just go with 2 oz in that tyre.

How long have you had the bike? Here in the desert we have to top off tubeless goop every 3 months, but in wetter climes I hear of people going 9 months before adding goop.

If the cut is too big to seal, Giant has a baconstrips style plug kit. I imagine any tubeless tire plug kit would work, however.

Then when you've worn out these tires you can get some tubed ones if you prefer.
Yeah I won't be riding on these tires anymore. I still need to educate myself on tubeless but as far as I understand if I get a tiny leak the sealant should do it's job and I should be none the wiser. If it's something more sunstantial and the tire goes flat and won't hold air I'd plug it (then patch when I got home as a permanent fix). In the event it's a bad leak I can remove the tire, remove the valve stem, install a tube to get me on my way, and assess when I get home. With this system I the best I can do is put a plug in as an emergency repair to get me home, I wouldn't consider that a permanent fix. Also I don't have the last resort fix of being able to put a tube in. In this particular instance a plug probably would have gotten me home, butd what if the leak was worse? Either way I'd still be looking at new tires,

FWIW the bike is a 2020 Giant Roam 1 that I bought new at the end of May and I live in Canada near Toronto. I don't know which system I'd prefer yet so I'm not really opposed to a PROPER tubeless setup and I don't mind maintenance, I'm usually looking for something to tinker with on my bike anyway.
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Old 11-11-20, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Wow, what a failed system. "emergency" repair only then buy a new tire.

I wonder if an auto plug would work as well?

https://www.autozone.com/tire-repair...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
Yeah, that seems like a good, cheap option if one doesn't have the official OEM kit. Gotta say I definitely hear the OP's frustration - I like Giant's bikes, but would personally not opt for this tire system.
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Old 11-11-20, 01:36 PM
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Your tires and rims may be tubeless ready, but used a tube. This is perfectly possible. But don't bash "tubeless" because you had a flat - you didn't have a tubeless setup.

First, you can get a flat with any setup, like you can slice the entire tire with tuebless. Second, a tubeless setup uses a sealant that seals small leaks. Obviously with a tube in there, this isn't working. If you have larger holes, there are patchkits and other fixes for tubeless. You also can take a spare tube with you. How far you want to go with spare and repair stuff depends on how far from civilization you go and what territory.

Have it set up properly before you judge it.
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Old 11-11-20, 01:51 PM
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Never leave a GF on the side of a trail by herself.
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Old 11-11-20, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
Your tires and rims may be tubeless ready, but used a tube.
No. No it didn't.

Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
This is perfectly possible.
Yes I mentioned I'm aware.

Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
But don't bash "tubeless" because you had a flat
I'm not, I'm bashing this system.

Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
- you didn't have a tubeless setup
Also aware of that, not a proper tubeless setup anyway.

Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
First, you can get a flat with any setup
Ummm.... thanks? Very helpful.

Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
a tubeless setup uses a sealant that seals small leaks.
Also mentoned I'm aware of that.

Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
Obviously with a tube in there, this isn't working.
There's no tube in there.

Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
If you have larger holes, there are patchkits and other fixes for tubeless.
I said I had a patch kit with me.

Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
You also can take a spare tube with you.
Yup said I had one of those too.

Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
Have it set up properly before you judge it.
Please READ the thread.
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Old 11-11-20, 02:52 PM
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Couldn't you have cut off the valve and then added a tube?
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Old 11-11-20, 02:59 PM
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Tubeless plug kit for bikes (the brown snot strings are much smaller)
Finish Line Sealant in tire.

ERT seems to combine the worst aspects of tubed and tubeless systems and none of the advantages. Some engineer somewhere needs a good paddling.
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Old 11-11-20, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by CargoDane View Post
Couldn't you have cut off the valve and then added a tube?
Possibly, not sure if the "tube part" would have stretched enough to meet the inside of the tire as it's only meat to span and seal to the rim. Either way I didn't have a knife with me. However, I may be able to trim that entire rubber piece out and put a tube in to get me riding again until new tires arrive. Thanks for the idea!!!
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Old 11-11-20, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Unlike car rims bicycle rims have spokes. Tubeless bike tires and wheels seem like kind of a dumb idea.
Okay, we've now got that out of the way. Moving on...

Originally Posted by Ryan_M View Post
FWIW the bike is a 2020 Giant Roam 1 that I bought new at the end of May and I live in Canada near Toronto. I don't know which system I'd prefer yet so I'm not really opposed to a PROPER tubeless setup and I don't mind maintenance,
If you had known it was essentially a tubeless setup with sealant, and known that you need to top up the sealant every now and then, it probably would've sealed up before you knew there had been a puncture.

I suggest that you get it set up as proper tubeless, maintain it properly, and enjoy. Tubeless isn't right for everyone...But if it is appropriate for you, it's really quite useful.
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Old 11-11-20, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan_M View Post
Possibly, not sure if the "tube part" would have stretched enough to meet the inside of the tire as it's only meat to span and seal to the rim. Either way I didn't have a knife with me. However, I may be able to trim that entire rubber piece out and put a tube in to get me riding again until new tires arrive. Thanks for the idea!!!
No problem
If the inner diameter was a problem, you could cut the dead "tube" thing lengthwise I gather. and sort of use it a full-width liner.
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Old 11-11-20, 03:16 PM
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So is the tire trash? Seems that now knowing you had a tubeless set up you could just put it back on and start doing what you'd do for tubeless tires. Or was the puncture too big for sealant to do it's thing? Of course you are going to have to get more sealant and other stuff if you do use it.

Cutting out the whatever you call the almost an inner tube thing and installing an inner tube will probably work if it doesn't leave a rough edge. But that smacks of being overly obsessed with frugality to me.

Last edited by Iride01; 11-11-20 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 11-11-20, 03:45 PM
  #25  
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That's a truly horrific design. It's like a tubular clincher. This seems like it was done purely to enable the tires to be sold as "tubeless" and easy to setup. The drawback is that it's difficult to patch, and if it gets any sort of cut the tire is basically trashed.
There are plenty of tubeless patch kits, but honestly, my advice would be to trash the tire and never look back.
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