Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Do I need this chain guide?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Do I need this chain guide?

Old 12-16-20, 08:57 PM
  #1  
chaadster
Thread Killer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,299

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1471 Post(s)
Liked 494 Times in 308 Posts
Do I need this chain guide?

Folks,

I’m perplexed by this chain guide thingy which came on my bike. It seems like it cannot be positioned to really do anything, so I’m wondering if I cannot just pull it off without concern.

It’s a 1 x 10 setup, with a guarded 40t chainring and 11-42t cluster.

I have the guide/keeper positioned as close to the guard as I can get it, aligned so that it doesn’t rub in any gear, but the trailing end is dropped as low as it can go, in hopes it might catch some chain if it decides to come off and do something to retain it. Could it be installed improperly?

It strikes me as a really clunky piece of kit if not an utterly useless one; I’ve seen some pretty discreet chainkeepers— if that is, in fact, what this thing is— but this huge piece looks like a fixed derailleur. I tied to spice it up with some anodized bolts, but visually I’d rather be rid of it, so if it’s superfluous or there are better options, any insight would be appreciated.

As you can see in the pic, it’s well proud of the chain and not capturing it at all. The guide channel is not wide enough to overlap both the ring guard and chainring, so it cannot be lowered, and the guide plates are to thick to slip between the ring guard and chainring, so it cannot be lowered to capture more chain for that reason, too.

Really, I cannot get my mind around this piece; is it only effective when in the
40/42 combo? I don’t get it. Please help!

Thanks!


chaadster is offline  
Old 12-16-20, 11:25 PM
  #2  
2_i 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,083

Bikes: Trek 730 (quad), 720 & 830, Bike Friday NWT, Brompton M27R & M6R, Dahon HAT060 & HT060, ...

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 565 Post(s)
Liked 141 Times in 113 Posts
The chain guide is likely there to prevent a dropped chain. When you shift in the rear, a wave propagates up to the front and may lift the chain off the ring.
2_i is offline  
Old 12-17-20, 12:16 AM
  #3  
LesterOfPuppets
cowboy, steel horse, etc
 
LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Valley of the Sun.
Posts: 36,774

Bikes: everywhere

Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7169 Post(s)
Liked 2,502 Times in 1,331 Posts
If you don't have a clutch rear derailleur, you'll want to keep that on there or the chain will likely drop occasionally while shifting gears or riding on bumpy ground/pavement.
LesterOfPuppets is offline  
Old 12-17-20, 01:25 AM
  #4  
BCDrums
Recreational Road Cyclist
 
BCDrums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: MetroWest, Mass.
Posts: 333

Bikes: 1990 Peter Mooney road bike

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Liked 81 Times in 53 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
As you can see in the pic...

How'd you get your name onto the chain stay?
BCDrums is offline  
Old 12-17-20, 04:45 AM
  #5  
Amt0571
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 902

Bikes: Canyon Grand Canyon AL SL 8.0, Btwin Ultra 520 AF GF, Dahon Mu P27, Triban Road 7, Benotto 850

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked 177 Times in 119 Posts
Unless you have a narrow-wide chainring and a clutch derailleur, you need some means to keep the chain on it.

If you don't like the guide, you could do something more discreet, like putting a chainguard on both sides of the ring. My Dahon folding bike has the chainring "sandwitched" between 2 chainguards and it works. Sometimes I hear a metal "clank" when shifting and it's the chain hitting the metal guard, so they seem to do their job.
Amt0571 is offline  
Old 12-17-20, 07:48 AM
  #6  
chaadster
Thread Killer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,299

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1471 Post(s)
Liked 494 Times in 308 Posts
Originally Posted by 2_i View Post
The chain guide is likely there to prevent a dropped chain. When you shift in the rear, a wave propagates up to the front and may lift the chain off the ring.
Is there any other reason for a chain guide?

I didn’t realize that simply shifting would cause chain drop. I thought it took bumps or shocks to do that, especially across the upper run, where the chain is under tension...or are you saying the wave travels backwards, across the bottom and lifts the chain from the underside of the chainring? Such a chainguide would seem to be in the wrong place for a mechanism like that.
chaadster is offline  
Old 12-17-20, 07:49 AM
  #7  
chaadster
Thread Killer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,299

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1471 Post(s)
Liked 494 Times in 308 Posts
Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
If you don't have a clutch rear derailleur, you'll want to keep that on there or the chain will likely drop occasionally while shifting gears or riding on bumpy ground/pavement.
it’s a Deore Shadow Plus, so it is clutched; you think the guide is superfluous, then?
chaadster is offline  
Old 12-17-20, 07:56 AM
  #8  
chaadster
Thread Killer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,299

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1471 Post(s)
Liked 494 Times in 308 Posts
Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
Unless you have a narrow-wide chainring and a clutch derailleur, you need some means to keep the chain on it.

If you don't like the guide, you could do something more discreet, like putting a chainguard on both sides of the ring. My Dahon folding bike has the chainring "sandwitched" between 2 chainguards and it works. Sometimes I hear a metal "clank" when shifting and it's the chain hitting the metal guard, so they seem to do their job.
I dunno if if the ring is “narrow-wide,” but the RD is clutched (Deore Shadow+).

I’ve payed attention to it but cannot hear any contact between chain and guide in any gear. It came preinstalled on the bike, and when going over it out of the box, it seemed positioned so high that there was no way it could have contacted the chain, so I brought down, in as close as I could to the chainring and without any rub in any gear.

This is my first 1x setup, so I’m not familiar with problems specific
to that kind of setup, but I see lots of 1x bikes without such a guide and wonder what the difference is that this bike needs one. Given it seems unlikely it could even do anything, I’d really prefer to remove it if it is indeed unnecessary.
chaadster is offline  
Old 12-17-20, 08:03 AM
  #9  
chaadster
Thread Killer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,299

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1471 Post(s)
Liked 494 Times in 308 Posts
Originally Posted by BCDrums View Post
How'd you get your name onto the chain stay?
Oh, I get vinyl transfer decals made for most
of my rigs! There are lots of online shops who make them, and I like https://www.customvinyllettering.net/.

Here are a few of the others:




chaadster is offline  
Likes For chaadster:
Old 12-17-20, 08:07 AM
  #10  
Amt0571
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 902

Bikes: Canyon Grand Canyon AL SL 8.0, Btwin Ultra 520 AF GF, Dahon Mu P27, Triban Road 7, Benotto 850

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked 177 Times in 119 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I dunno if if the ring is “narrow-wide,” but the RD is clutched (Deore Shadow+).

I’ve payed attention to it but cannot hear any contact between chain and guide in any gear. It came preinstalled on the bike, and when going over it out of the box, it seemed positioned so high that there was no way it could have contacted the chain, so I brought down, in as close as I could to the chainring and without any rub in any gear.

This is my first 1x setup, so I’m not familiar with problems specific
to that kind of setup, but I see lots of 1x bikes without such a guide and wonder what the difference is that this bike needs one. Given it seems unlikely it could even do anything, I’d really prefer to remove it if it is indeed unnecessary.
It's probably tehre because the chainring isn't narrow-wide. If you remove it it'll probably derail.
r
Amt0571 is offline  
Old 12-17-20, 08:50 AM
  #11  
chaadster
Thread Killer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,299

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1471 Post(s)
Liked 494 Times in 308 Posts
Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
It's probably tehre because the chainring isn't narrow-wide. If you remove it it'll probably derail.
r
thanks. I’ll see about fitting a “narrow-wide” chainring then.
chaadster is offline  
Old 12-17-20, 09:12 AM
  #12  
Amt0571
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 902

Bikes: Canyon Grand Canyon AL SL 8.0, Btwin Ultra 520 AF GF, Dahon Mu P27, Triban Road 7, Benotto 850

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked 177 Times in 119 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
thanks. I’ll see about fitting a “narrow-wide” chainring then.
You can try if it derails with the included chainring first though. My bet is that its going to work in normal conditions, and probably derrail if you shift over bumps.
Amt0571 is offline  
Old 12-17-20, 10:04 AM
  #13  
chaadster
Thread Killer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,299

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1471 Post(s)
Liked 494 Times in 308 Posts
Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
You can try if it derails with the included chainring first though. My bet is that its going to work in normal conditions, and probably derrail if you shift over bumps.
I looked up NW rings and went out to check the bike, and it does have one already. So this is perplexing, because it has a clutch RD and a NW ring, so why does it have that clunky guide on it??

I guess I'll just take it off and see how it goes.

Thanks for the help!
chaadster is offline  
Old 12-17-20, 10:05 AM
  #14  
Amt0571
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 902

Bikes: Canyon Grand Canyon AL SL 8.0, Btwin Ultra 520 AF GF, Dahon Mu P27, Triban Road 7, Benotto 850

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked 177 Times in 119 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I looked up NW rings and went out to check the bike, and it does have one already. So this is perplexing, because it has a clutch RD and a NW ring, so why does it have that clunky guide on it??

I guess I'll just take it off and see how it goes.

Thanks for the help!
Take it off then. You shouldn't need it.
Amt0571 is offline  
Old 12-17-20, 10:22 AM
  #15  
hokiefyd 
Senior Member
 
hokiefyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Northern Shenandoah Valley
Posts: 3,442

Bikes: '18 Redline Zander MTB, '14 Surly Pugsley, '97 Trek MultiTrack 750, '70 Peugeot UO-18 Mixte

Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1176 Post(s)
Liked 408 Times in 318 Posts
It costs you nothing to remove it and just how it works. I have a fatbike with a non-clutched rear derailler and a "poor man's" 1x drivetrain -- I took the large ring off the crankset and I'm using only the small ring. I removed the front derailleur entirely, I don't have a chain device, and the chain ring is not a narrow-wide design. Despite that, I haven't dropped a chain yet. I couldn't say that it'd never happen, but it's been fine so far. You could remove it and see how you make out. It'll cost you nothing but time...and perhaps some greasy fingers if you do drop the chain once or twice.
hokiefyd is offline  
Likes For hokiefyd:
Old 12-17-20, 10:32 AM
  #16  
Amt0571
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 902

Bikes: Canyon Grand Canyon AL SL 8.0, Btwin Ultra 520 AF GF, Dahon Mu P27, Triban Road 7, Benotto 850

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked 177 Times in 119 Posts
Originally Posted by hokiefyd View Post
It costs you nothing to remove it and just how it works. I have a fatbike with a non-clutched rear derailler and a "poor man's" 1x drivetrain -- I took the large ring off the crankset and I'm using only the small ring. I removed the front derailleur entirely, I don't have a chain device, and the chain ring is not a narrow-wide design. Despite that, I haven't dropped a chain yet. I couldn't say that it'd never happen, but it's been fine so far. You could remove it and see how you make out. It'll cost you nothing but time...and perhaps some greasy fingers if you do drop the chain once or twice.
Well, if you drop the chain unexpectedly when sprinting, for example, it can cost you your teeth
Amt0571 is offline  
Likes For Amt0571:
Old 12-17-20, 12:32 PM
  #17  
2_i 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,083

Bikes: Trek 730 (quad), 720 & 830, Bike Friday NWT, Brompton M27R & M6R, Dahon HAT060 & HT060, ...

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 565 Post(s)
Liked 141 Times in 113 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Is there any other reason for a chain guide?

I didn’t realize that simply shifting would cause chain drop. I thought it took bumps or shocks to do that, especially across the upper run, where the chain is under tension...or are you saying the wave travels backwards, across the bottom and lifts the chain from the underside of the chainring? Such a chainguide would seem to be in the wrong place for a mechanism like that.
The wave along the bottom is dampened by the tensioner. It is the one going along the top that can cause the drop without provisions of one sort or another. On bikes with front derailleurs it is the derailleur cage that prevents the drop. The clutch that is on in a clutched rear derailleur reduces the wave on top.
2_i is offline  
Old 12-17-20, 01:09 PM
  #18  
Gresp15C
Senior Member
 
Gresp15C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,717
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1004 Post(s)
Liked 556 Times in 360 Posts
I was dropping the chain on my Diamondback 1x9 all the time. It had a chain guide too. Of course Murphy's Law dictated that it only happened at the most embarrassing moments. Switching to a narrow-wide ring was like night and day -- no drops since then.
Gresp15C is offline  
Old 12-17-20, 01:47 PM
  #19  
Geepig
Senior Member
 
Geepig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Eastern Poland
Posts: 637

Bikes: Romet Jubilat x 4, Wigry x 1, Turing x 1

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked 160 Times in 122 Posts
My 1974 Carlton never had one, but it was only 1x5, and the only time was when I did something stupid with a badly worn chain. My brother's 2x5 would, if the lever wasn't quite in place.
Geepig is offline  
Old 12-17-20, 02:09 PM
  #20  
Canker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,483
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 236 Post(s)
Liked 85 Times in 50 Posts
The chain guide isn't meant to work with that style of bash gaurd so you might remove one or the other. The chain guide is pointless as currently setup. If you don't have a narrow wide chainring I'd loose the bash and keep the chain guide, even on a gravel/road bike that could be useful. The bash is pointless unless you are actually mtn biking.
Canker is offline  
Old 12-17-20, 06:27 PM
  #21  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 8,490

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), Cilo Road Frame, Proteus frame, Ti 26 MTB

Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2323 Post(s)
Liked 1,286 Times in 874 Posts
Take it or leave it probably not a bad thing but with a clutch and a NW you should be fine. Heck my NW with a non-clutched derailleur (old XT 8 speed) works just fine and dandy and I haven't yet dropped a chain (at least not that I can remember)

I do like the pink bolt on it so I would vote to keep but only for that bolt.
veganbikes is offline  
Likes For veganbikes:
Old 12-17-20, 07:54 PM
  #22  
chaadster
Thread Killer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,299

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1471 Post(s)
Liked 494 Times in 308 Posts
Originally Posted by Canker View Post
The chain guide isn't meant to work with that style of bash gaurd so you might remove one or the other. The chain guide is pointless as currently setup. If you don't have a narrow wide chainring I'd loose the bash and keep the chain guide, even on a gravel/road bike that could be useful. The bash is pointless unless you are actually mtn biking.
That’s what I thought...it certainly does not appear to be able to do anything as-is. The bash guard, however, also protects the pants leg from brushing the chain, so I’m preferring to keep it for that. Ditching it, though, does open up the possibility of a fiting a tricked-out chainring! Bespoke Chainrings has a couple of dope ones in stock right now which would look so swass...
chaadster is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.