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Shimano 600 tri color chain installation ??

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Shimano 600 tri color chain installation ??

Old 01-22-21, 04:32 PM
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bikemike73
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Shimano 600 tri color chain installation ??

Have a sram 830 new chain 678 speed.

I have a 7 speed.

Installed the chain but its rubbing on a bottom piece on the RD. It's like a arm guide.
it shifts fine except for the rubbing on that piece

You can see it best on picture #2

Here are some pics.

Gotta be a simple solution.

Appreciate any and all help




Last edited by bikemike73; 01-22-21 at 04:39 PM. Reason: More accurately describe
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Old 01-22-21, 04:52 PM
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1. Did you size the chain or install the length that came out of the package?
2. What does it look like on the larger cogs?
3. Do you have another bike to compare routing?
My 1st chain replacement attempt resulted in a common newbie mistake of threading it through wrong. Repeated the same mistake. THEN, I looked at another bike and DUH! It's easy to get confused when you've allowed the RDER to go totally "retracted". I extended it by hand and then visualize the routing FROM the cog through the RDER and on to the bottom of the chain ring.
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Old 01-22-21, 05:29 PM
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Not an expert here by any means, but from the images it looks like the chain might be a tad long. It might be perspective, but the chain looks a bit droopy. Like Bill said, does the new chain length match the old length?

The rear derailleur should have a little tension on the internal spring. By this I mean that the idler arm is pulled forward - at least a little - against spring tension when the chain is on the two smallest sprockets, front and rear.
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Old 01-22-21, 07:20 PM
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Thank you for responses.

Did not measure the chain that was in there because new cassette is bigger.
Routing looks the same as on another bike BUT I have no other shimano 600 to compare to.

On the larger cogs speeds 1,2 and 3 it " clears that arm and works perfect.

Could the arm be bent ?

There was a 13 - 23 on there and was no issue.

Conundrum
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Old 01-22-21, 07:25 PM
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More pics




see on the first 3 pictured here....chain is not touching that little RD arm
last pic in 7th gear it is
It touches from 4th gear thru 7th gear

Really appreciate your time and help
Thank you
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Old 01-22-21, 07:31 PM
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On the stop

Mike,
It looks like the rear derailleur is up against the stop limit pin (second picture of the new set), so the chain probably can't tension properly without removing a link. Then again, I'm not an expert.

I have a 600 Ultegra, and I'll take a pic when I get home how it's positioned with the chain on the two smallest gears.
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Old 01-22-21, 07:36 PM
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I seriously doubt the der cage got bent during the cassette and chain replacements. Like others have said it looks like too long a chain. But before you shorten it shift into that other no no combo, big/big, and see if the cage can be swung forward enough if the chain was 1" shorter. BTW this generation of the Shimano ders was IMO about the pinnacle of their development and aesthetics.

When you finally get the chain length right then check in when in the rear big and ft small the rear der's upper pulley still clears the big rear cog's underside (especially when back pedaling). Andy
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Old 01-22-21, 07:53 PM
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Update

I have a pic of the whole bike before any work was done.
Took a close up

Here it is

I think RD and or chain is topsy turvy
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Old 01-22-21, 08:17 PM
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What is the large and small tooth count on your new cassette/freewheel compared to the old? It looks to me like the big cog is larger. Your chain MUST be long enough to shift into the big front/big rear combination without strain, and if the big cog is too large (or the small one too small, or both) your derailleur may not be able to take up enough chain to avoid contact in your small front/small rear combinations. My guess is that your new cassette has a 32 tooth large cog, while your old one was 25 or 28 teeth. Right? The smaller one may now also be 12 vs 13 or 14 before which would contribute to the issue.
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Old 01-22-21, 08:33 PM
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I had a 13 -23 on there before

I have a 12 -28 on there now

Chain rings are 42 and 53

Did not change them

See how the RD is parallel in the lowest gear with the original RD
with the new cassette it is slanted

I took another link off the chain.
It clears with no rubbing except for 7th gear.
and goes in to 1st gear..largest cog ..28

Would the RD look different..position wise, with a new cassette, in the same gear ?

Really appreciate the help

Last edited by bikemike73; 01-23-21 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 01-22-21, 08:43 PM
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I have never ever done with Bill Kapaun has done ever not once, no siree. I don't even know what he is talking about.

Also seeing the title on the last pic means I gotta see the whole dang thing. I mean the campy dropouts got me swooning but then I saw Eddy and you got the juices flowin'
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Old 01-22-21, 09:04 PM
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Put the chain on BIG:BIG.
Using the method in the pic below, measure the amount of slack.
You want at least 1", but less than 2".
How much do you have>
What may be VERY important is what are the SIZE of your chain rings? That RDER doesn't have a large amount of chain wrap. Something like 26T and your new cassette is using 16T of that. That means the difference between your largest & smallest ring can't exceed 10T without possible problems.
BTW, most pics of your don't help.

Last edited by Bill Kapaun; 01-22-21 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 01-22-21, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by IdahoSpud View Post
Mike,
It looks like the rear derailleur is up against the stop limit pin (second picture of the new set), so the chain probably can't tension properly without removing a link. Then again, I'm not an expert.

I have a 600 Ultegra, and I'll take a pic when I get home how it's positioned with the chain on the two smallest gears.
that would be greatly appreciated
Thank you
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Old 01-22-21, 09:20 PM
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Hey Bill

Chain rings are 42 and 53
Same as what was on there before any issues

I'll do your test tomorrow morning and let all know
13 -23 was original cassette
New one is 12 -28
They do not make a 14 -28

And on another one of my threads

Experts said 12- 28 would work

it was maximum for the shimano 600

Really appreciate all the great help!!!

Maybe I can get I a short ride tomorrow
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Old 01-22-21, 09:35 PM
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It'd take you all of 2 minutes to perform the test in post#12.
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Old 01-23-21, 07:34 AM
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Squeezed the chain together as Bill suggested.

Got about an inch and a half.

No ride to test as it snowed overnight

I think we are close. I might not be able to use the 12 tooth cog.
That's ok if all else works.

Might have to go to the bike shop

Appreciate all the help.

Keep it coming

Greatly appreciated!!!!

Last edited by bikemike73; 01-23-21 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 01-23-21, 09:19 AM
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To avoid the next common issue with home chain installs- bikeman73 should read this current thread here, Busted chained mangled my derailleur! - Bike Forums . Andy
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Old 01-23-21, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemike73 View Post
I had a 13 -23 on there before

I have a 12 -28 on there now

Chain rings are 42 and 53

Did not change them

See how the RD is parallel in the lowest gear with the original RD
wirh the new cassette it is slanted

I took another link off the chain.
It clears with no rubbing except for 7th gear.
and goes in to 1st gear..largest cog ..28

Would the RD look different..position wise, with a new cassette, in the same gear ?

Really appreciate the help
In changing the cassette you have increased the number of links the derailleur must take up by 6; it may or may not be able to handle that many additional links without going slack in the small/small combination. Your chain must be long enough to go into the big/big combination without strain and you will have to accept a slack chain in small/small (which you should avoid anyway) unless you change your cassette or derailleur.
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Old 01-23-21, 12:09 PM
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Thanks you again for all the great replies.

I did read the thread that AR Stewart said to read.. Thank you

I have a new sram 830 chain that goes together with pushing the " lock pins" ? together and using a special tool to " click in"...slide... to secure the chain.

My apologies for not using the correct terminology....

Really do appreciate all the help.

Thank you
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Old 01-23-21, 01:18 PM
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Just looks like your chain is too long. That series der has no trouble handling an 11-28 with a 53/39 so it will have no trouble with an 11-28 53/42; I have a bike equipped just like that in the basement and I'm no great hill climber so I've always run a 28 with it. Put the gearing in the small/small combination and take out enough links that the chain will connect without touching the spot you keep referencing, then shift up through to make sure everything is fine but it all should be. Alternative is to go big/big and pull the chain tight as it will safely go but I find it harder to do that.
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Old 01-23-21, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth View Post
Just looks like your chain is too long. That series der has no trouble handling an 11-28 with a 53/39 so it will have no trouble with an 11-28 53/42; I have a bike equipped just like that in the basement and I'm no great hill climber so I've always run a 28 with it. Put the gearing in the small/small combination and take out enough links that the chain will connect without touching the spot you keep referencing, then shift up through to make sure everything is fine but it all should be. Alternative is to go big/big and pull the chain tight as it will safely go but I find it harder to do that.
The chain wrap capacity of that RDER is 26T and the OP is now at 27.
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...2-d3236e2fd096
One would expect a slight sag in Small:Small.
Removing links might not be a good idea.
I'd live with that sag and try to avoid small:small. It's the "safer" route.
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Old 01-23-21, 01:31 PM
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Your chain is too long.
Remove the chain completely.
Drape it over the big ring, through the FD and around the largest cog out back. Do NOT route thru the RD.
Bring the ends together tightly at the bottom of the big ring and add two links, allowing for the correct lonk ends that march with your connector (usually two male ends)
That’s how long your chain should be.
By measuring this way you ensure that big/big (which is much less of a no-no these days than it used to be) is safe.
Stay away from small/small anyway, you have that gearing on other big ring/cog combinations that are more efficient.
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Old 01-23-21, 01:52 PM
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It seems the OP is evading the question of chain sizing. As well if the cassette or chainwheels were changed to be different tooth count's then the total capacity and other spec's of the rear DR need to be considered too.
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Old 01-23-21, 01:52 PM
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Something I hadn't thought of-
Have you screwed in the B screw?
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Old 01-23-21, 04:17 PM
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Thank you for all the great info.

What is the " B" screw ?

And where is it located on the Shimao 600 ?

Logic would dictate ( and Russ Roth ), that if I remove one more link it will not rub on that arm piece.

I will take the chain off and do what rccardr said. I have heard that before.

I too, believe the chain is too long ( rccardr). I do have the old chain.

I will pull it out and put them side by side as well. Just to be curious

IF I take one more link out and all shifts fine....is it possible the chain could be TOO tight?

I really do not care about the 28 cog. If I can ride 12 -24 that's fine with me. 80% of the time I am in a low gear anyway.

I love this forum and am fortunate to have such expertise ( RR, rccardr, Bill ) help....even though sometimes it differs and we try to decide what to do

Please forgive me if I did not mention someone by name. ALL responses are appreciated that lead to fixing this issue .

Thank you again

Last edited by bikemike73; 01-23-21 at 05:00 PM.
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