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Possible to repair steel frame?

Old 01-30-21, 09:21 AM
  #1  
pandaparry
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Possible to repair steel frame?

Hi all,

I bought a nice steel (columbus SL) pinarello frame today (Montello Cromonero). I mainly bought it for the fork, as the owner said the rest was totalled. It indeed looks like a nasty crack (dent in chain stay and crack near rear brake). See pictures.

But... is IS a Pinarello Montello Cromonero from the mid eighties that has never even been used. Damage was from box that fell on the frame.

My question is whether such damage can be repaired with some minor fixes (without doing too much damage to the unique finish), or whether it is indeed total loss. The owner mentioned the entire rear part of the frame had to be renewed. In that case I probably make something else out of it.

Thanks for the help!

Kees



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Old 01-30-21, 09:33 AM
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Call some good frame shops. It's possible to replace the seatstay in some cases and repaint but I'm sure it won't be cheap. But since, as you mentioned, it's a Pinarello and might be worth it. Where are you located as someone here may be able to steer you to a local repair shop. You may also want to post in the "Framebuilders" section as some of the regulars there don't visit this section often.
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Old 01-30-21, 09:44 AM
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unterhausen
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Originally Posted by Crankycrank View Post
You may also want to post in the "Framebuilders" section as some of the regulars there don't visit this section often.
Please don't advise people to cross post, it's not allowed. I would move it if the OP wants, and that's the way to do it.

I'm in the process of replacing a rear triangle, which is the way I would go. Tubes are in short supply and matching exactly is not that easy. To me, the chain stay and seat stay need to be replaced. Some people will just patch. It's not unsafe, but it offends my sensibilities. If you just want a rider that's a possibility.

Maybe other builders think differently. I would check with Franklin frames to see what they think.
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Old 01-30-21, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Please don't advise people to cross post, it's not allowed. I would move it if the OP wants, and that's the way to do it..
Got it.
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Old 01-30-21, 10:31 AM
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Even if you could get a framebuilder to try "minor" fixes, which I doubt, the brazing will damage the finish for sure. You can spend hundreds getting new tubes and paint but the Cromovelato is clear-coating over a polished chromed frame. I don't think you can replicate the Cromonero as I understand it was a colored clear coat applied to the chrome is no long produced do to the super nasty chemicals in the coating. Sorry, it would be a beauty on the road.
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Old 01-30-21, 11:07 AM
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The mechanism of doesn’t sound right . I’m guessing that the original insult WAS the box falling on the frame but the actual damage occurred when attempting to restore the chain stay to its original form. 20/20 hindsight is always more clear and frequently moot but step one should have been “call the bike shop” ! Regardless of when, how and who was/were to remedy this issue, I don’t believe it could be done without significant damage to the finish. This IMHO is a job for a professional. In addition to the chain stay damage, I’d want to hav a close look at the seat stay up near the lug connection with the seat tube.
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Old 01-30-21, 11:32 AM
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Thanks for the advice. As far as I can see, no attempt has been made to restore the bike. No clue what really happened, as the structural damage looks like a crash happened but paint has no scratches. It seems from feedback that repairs will likely be both costly and damaging to the unique paintwork (which indeed is not made anymore due to some toxic stuff?). Costly is not the main problem, but damaging the finish will be.

Well, i bought it for the fork and I have another Montello in Spumoni colors with a broken fork, so I will probably stick to my original plan to use it there. Better one complete Montello on the road than two broken ones hidden in the shed...

Too bad, as this is the most beautiful finish I have seen. I might use the frame in some creative way (without doing further damage in case I will give it another try in some years).

Best,

Kees
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Old 01-30-21, 12:59 PM
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This is the damage that would occur if the rear dropout (with no wheel) was pushed into the other dropout. I couldn't really tell if it was one of the clear over chrome finishes. So I didn't mention that complicates the repair quite a bit. The chrome in the areas that are going to be heated should be removed.
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Old 01-30-21, 01:10 PM
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The fact that someone didn't have it repaired when that was a new and in demand item should indicate that the cost of repairing properly outweighs the benefit.

However if you personally feel the frame calls to you, then I wouldn't fault you for spending the money to have it fixed properly. And I'd agree you probably need to replace the entire rear triangle to have all the stay tubes match.

Might be you can find a frame builder that somehow got stuck with tubes for the rear already in their inventory and will do it relatively cheap or you might just run into frame builders that will have to buy the new tubes and pass that cost directly to you.
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Old 01-30-21, 09:27 PM
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The tubes are definitely replaceable. The finish might not. In my estimation, a frame makes crummy wall art without the fork, so you might as well get it fixed and painted and ride it.
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Old 01-31-21, 07:25 AM
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Frame is repairable. Columbus SL is still to be found. Framebuilders with inventory do talk to each other. Just as an indication, because they post online prices, Mercian asks 95 GBP to replace either a seat stay or a chain stay. Add a little for the oddball tubes. So US $300 or so for the torchwork. Sounds about right.

Nothing generates tall tales like chrome. Black chrome is even worse. Disregard the stories and find out what can be done. Franklin Frames, already mentioned, is the only domestic source for this work. Ask them. If they donít want it, canít do the black part, ask more than you will spend, the other place is velociao.com. You will incur the costs of roundtrip shipping to Berlin. Robert Schmidt and everyone at his shop speak English. The chrome will be done in Italy. Italian chrome looks Italian. They do a lot of this work. If matching is possible they can do it. Or maybe matching is easier than imagined and Franklin will be glad to do that.

My ballpark for complete job with shipping would be $1000-1500. Much less than the cost of building new. Much more than most would pay for an old frame. Up to you.

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Old 01-31-21, 09:14 AM
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Might want to contact Yellow Jersey as well. A frame repair at Yellow Jersey, 1964 Paramount #R43 Not the easiest website to navigate but lots of interesting other stuff to see.
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Old 01-31-21, 11:33 AM
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Might try Franklin Frame, he does this kind of stuff, also knows a chrome plater. You will have to pay appropriately, but he does really good work.
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Old 01-31-21, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Please don't advise people to cross post, it's not allowed. I would move it if the OP wants, and that's the way to do it.

I'm in the process of replacing a rear triangle, which is the way I would go. Tubes are in short supply and matching exactly is not that easy. To me, the chain stay and seat stay need to be replaced. Some people will just patch. It's not unsafe, but it offends my sensibilities. If you just want a rider that's a possibility.

Maybe other builders think differently. I would check with Franklin frames to see what they think.
The chainstay could probably be repaired. It's not as bad damage, it's likely thicker, and you could get away with less than perfect cosmetics. But the seatstay is toast.
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Old 01-31-21, 03:06 PM
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Avert your eyes if hackery causes distress

I was thinking about cutting out the part of the seat stay that is cracked and just brazing another section of tube in its place. It's the sort of repair that I would only do on a bike in exigent circumstances, like someone was on a trip.

The chainstay I would braze a piece of chainstay over top of that nasty dent. It's going to crack there, probably pretty quickly.

I think I might have made this into a bad advice thread.
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Old 01-31-21, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Avert your eyes if hackery causes distress

I was thinking about cutting out the part of the seat stay that is cracked and just brazing another section of tube in its place. It's the sort of repair that I would only do on a bike in exigent circumstances, like someone was on a trip.

The chainstay I would braze a piece of chainstay over top of that nasty dent. It's going to crack there, probably pretty quickly.

I think I might have made this into a bad advice thread.
Yes might even cut out the dented piece because it's got nasty sharp corners.

I guess a slightly less sketchy repair of the seatstay would be to cut out a very short section only 1 or 2mm and insert a bit of tube or even solid rod inside extending about an inch each side. Weld all the way around the edges and across the gap. Sand it all flush. This could even be made to look OK.
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Old 01-31-21, 09:08 PM
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The lugged frame can definitely be repaired, but the cromovelato paint job will be hard to duplicate. I think the best bet is to get the rear triangle replaced, and then paint it a solid color, which fades into the cromovelato finish of the front triangle.
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Old 02-01-21, 12:05 AM
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Wow, I hate to see that. The Montello model is the premium Pinarello from that era, I'm sure you know that. You say you bought it for the fork, I would say just go with that and don't pursue a repair of the frame. That's just my my opinion, of course, but everything that makes that frame special won't really be the same, even with a professional repair. I own a lugged steel Pinarello myself, love it, best road bike i've ever owned, etc, etc. I'll say again, I hate to see that damage to that frame, but I think I would just retire that one.
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Old 02-01-21, 12:28 AM
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Yes it is possible.
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Old 02-01-21, 07:49 AM
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@pandaparry - Like you said, go to have at least on Montello on the road.
Could you verify that the frame decal doesn't reflect SLX? I was under the impression that all Montello's were made with SLX.
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Old 02-01-21, 01:03 PM
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Frame is very much repairable, but it will absolutely ruin the finish. If a professional repair is done, the finish, although lovely, does not effect how the bike rides. You could get the chainstay replaced for a few hundred then just use a rattlecan to protect the new stay and joint that was brazed.
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Old 02-01-21, 03:18 PM
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There is powder coatings that give a similar effect. And there is also something called "Hydro Chroming". It's probably a bit cheaper then how the original finish was done
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Old 02-01-21, 04:04 PM
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Certainly something to play with if your just going to write it off. Like internal or external sleeves of brass silver soldered for a decent repair without completely destroying the rest of the paint job...

I have seen guys in Austin take a sweet frame like this and have it running as a Franken Fixey in a matter of days.

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Old 02-01-21, 05:50 PM
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Could this crack happen from the frame wearing out? I think my Nishiki broke there BITD. My Teacher had used it to travel across America 2x and Canada once with it back in the 80's. I just happened to finish it off.
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Old 02-02-21, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by cbrstar View Post
Could this crack happen from the frame wearing out? I think my Nishiki broke there BITD. My Teacher had used it to travel across America 2x and Canada once with it back in the 80's. I just happened to finish it off.
You can have cracks from fatigue but in this case you can see lots of severe denting on both stays that implies traumatic damage. The radiant spangliness of the chromovelato finish is also consistent with this bike hardly having been ridden.

If you look closely at the cross-section of a crack I think you can also tell if it's fatigue somehow. But if it happened after many thousands of miles JRA then it probably was fatigue.
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