hierachy in quality derailleur
03-20-21, 11:21 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
hierachy in quality derailleur
Also do all acera models are less quality than alivio 's? cause many acera are more expensive.
or maybe some models on acera hi are better than alivio low model.
Is there a extensive list of models placed in quality order more precise than tourney altus acera alivioT
tx
or maybe some models on acera hi are better than alivio low model.
Is there a extensive list of models placed in quality order more precise than tourney altus acera alivioT
tx
03-20-21, 11:48 AM
#2
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Well even Shimano themselves does this for you .... kinda.
https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/components/road.html
https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/components/mtb.html
Now not every tier component can be substituted for another. But basically the top performance tiers are at the top of the list and the lower performance at the bottom. You seem to only be concerned about quality. What quality specifically is important to you? Durability? Durability of wear or durability to survive being banged and hit on when you move it around the garage and bump into things or when you fling it in the trunk of your car and it lands on the DR?
In most cases, rear DR's are inexpensive. The cost of going one or two tier levels higher for better shifting performance and equal or better durability is probably only going to be about 3 maybe 5 dollars USD difference if you shop around online for new stuff.
https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/components/road.html
https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/components/mtb.html
Now not every tier component can be substituted for another. But basically the top performance tiers are at the top of the list and the lower performance at the bottom. You seem to only be concerned about quality. What quality specifically is important to you? Durability? Durability of wear or durability to survive being banged and hit on when you move it around the garage and bump into things or when you fling it in the trunk of your car and it lands on the DR?
In most cases, rear DR's are inexpensive. The cost of going one or two tier levels higher for better shifting performance and equal or better durability is probably only going to be about 3 maybe 5 dollars USD difference if you shop around online for new stuff.
03-20-21, 11:49 AM
#3
Really Old Senior Member
Ignore List since you won't use any effort to focus on ANY of the answers you've been given.
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03-22-21, 08:36 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
Well even Shimano themselves does this for you .... kinda.
https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/components/road.html
https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/components/mtb.html
Now not every tier component can be substituted for another. But basically the top performance tiers are at the top of the list and the lower performance at the bottom. You seem to only be concerned about quality. What quality specifically is important to you? Durability? Durability of wear or durability to survive being banged and hit on when you move it around the garage and bump into things or when you fling it in the trunk of your car and it lands on the DR?
In most cases, rear DR's are inexpensive. The cost of going one or two tier levels higher for better shifting performance and equal or better durability is probably only going to be about 3 maybe 5 dollars USD difference if you shop around online for new stuff.
https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/components/road.html
https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/components/mtb.html
Now not every tier component can be substituted for another. But basically the top performance tiers are at the top of the list and the lower performance at the bottom. You seem to only be concerned about quality. What quality specifically is important to you? Durability? Durability of wear or durability to survive being banged and hit on when you move it around the garage and bump into things or when you fling it in the trunk of your car and it lands on the DR?
In most cases, rear DR's are inexpensive. The cost of going one or two tier levels higher for better shifting performance and equal or better durability is probably only going to be about 3 maybe 5 dollars USD difference if you shop around online for new stuff.
yes resitance to being banged a bit is good thing to have.
03-22-21, 08:43 PM
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
hi Bill
i feel sorry that you seem to have had bad experience in the past.
pls dont put me in a category to soon , or at all.
i did check the links and even though i can see the big names , i cannot find a place where the models are classified (by models i mean zr 33 zrt55 zr plus turbo ) that would be models of alivio grand category for example.
can you help me with that?
i would appreciate
tx
i feel sorry that you seem to have had bad experience in the past.
pls dont put me in a category to soon , or at all.
i did check the links and even though i can see the big names , i cannot find a place where the models are classified (by models i mean zr 33 zrt55 zr plus turbo ) that would be models of alivio grand category for example.
can you help me with that?
i would appreciate
tx
03-22-21, 08:47 PM
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I detect a struggle with English language. What background do you come from? Just curious. I'm no expert on bikes by any means, but it seems like price is dictated by quality, many times quantified by such things as weight, performance, and low on the list to most bikers, durability, which is not the same as dependability, Many of the lower priced items on a bike have the same durability and dependability as the pricier up the ladder, but they don't shift as crisp or weigh more, or just cosmetically not refined. You decide what works for you, HTH
03-23-21, 05:56 AM
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If I were going to list the products I might want, the first thing I would do would be to order my priorities.
I have a budget, so that chops away many options.
I ride off road, so there go some more.
I have a folder, so off go yet more.
My folder was designed in about 1970, so the options are even slimmer.
Now I can ask which choice is better.
I have a budget, so that chops away many options.
I ride off road, so there go some more.
I have a folder, so off go yet more.
My folder was designed in about 1970, so the options are even slimmer.
Now I can ask which choice is better.
03-23-21, 09:58 AM
#8
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Q
Like I said previously, "quality" is a broad range of considerations. Durability is a very small part of quality. Quality to some might be more concerned with weight, or smoothness and precision of movement.
............... my head quality means also durability that is where i ask you to correct my thinking of show me what else is important.
yes resitance to being banged a bit is good thing to have.
yes resitance to being banged a bit is good thing to have.
What do you want? Well how many speeds is your bike? Get the components that are compatible with the existing components you are not replacing. I recommend you use the same group and series components so you'll not have any unconsidered compatibility issues crop up. So if your bike was an e-bike originally, then put on it what the designers spec'd and put on it when new. If you are making your own e-bike then good luck. I'd just get an old Yamaha trail bike and have a blast.
03-23-21, 11:10 AM
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hierarchy criteria can & will be different with each OEM.
The known higher end of brands that have established themselves tend to provide a tighter tolerance & strive to create the component least noticed when in operation. Lastly, aesthetics are a factor when those higher end models are designed.
Downside to having tighter tolerances & wanting to achieve having a silent operating mechanism is finicky adjustments when setting them up for the non-shop equipped bicycle mechanic.
The known higher end of brands that have established themselves tend to provide a tighter tolerance & strive to create the component least noticed when in operation. Lastly, aesthetics are a factor when those higher end models are designed.
Downside to having tighter tolerances & wanting to achieve having a silent operating mechanism is finicky adjustments when setting them up for the non-shop equipped bicycle mechanic.
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03-23-21, 12:04 PM
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How many trips down the same gopher hole?
03-23-21, 02:44 PM
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when procreation is no longer a thing.
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03-23-21, 02:53 PM
#12
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Don't fret about hierarchy - Shimano derailleurs work more or less equally well. The only real difference is that the higher-end components weigh less, although that might not mean they last longer, or even as long. The 8-speed Altus on my Carrera Subway shifts as sweetly as you could ever imagine - it's such a gem, for its price, at least, that Rivendell's Grant Petersen wrote an ode to it (at the time of writing it cost $24):
https://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/8374...-modern-cheapy
Far more important, as Sheldon would have told you, is to keep the cables well lubed. I got a bit lazy during lockdown, rode the bike for transportation but didn't relube the cables for months, and while it still shifted well enough, the shifts had got a bit mushy - slightly slow to change up and I was having to overshift slightly when changing down. It was only after I relubed the rear derailleur cable and went back to barely being able to feel or hear the shift - i.e. 'normal' - that I realised how badly the shifting had 'gone off'. It wasn't wear or deterioration - there wasn't any - it was purely, 100 per cent, the cables drying out.
Same goes for hanger alignment - if it's out it'll make far more of a difference than different Shimano derailleur types.
Or to put it another way, provided everything's set up properly, I seriously doubt if you'd be able to tell the difference between the derailleurs you've listed.
Still, as far as making a choice goes, sometimes the hardest choices are the ones that don't matter!
https://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/8374...-modern-cheapy
Far more important, as Sheldon would have told you, is to keep the cables well lubed. I got a bit lazy during lockdown, rode the bike for transportation but didn't relube the cables for months, and while it still shifted well enough, the shifts had got a bit mushy - slightly slow to change up and I was having to overshift slightly when changing down. It was only after I relubed the rear derailleur cable and went back to barely being able to feel or hear the shift - i.e. 'normal' - that I realised how badly the shifting had 'gone off'. It wasn't wear or deterioration - there wasn't any - it was purely, 100 per cent, the cables drying out.
Same goes for hanger alignment - if it's out it'll make far more of a difference than different Shimano derailleur types.
Or to put it another way, provided everything's set up properly, I seriously doubt if you'd be able to tell the difference between the derailleurs you've listed.
Still, as far as making a choice goes, sometimes the hardest choices are the ones that don't matter!
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03-23-21, 09:37 PM
#13
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Thread Starter
I detect a struggle with English language. What background do you come from? Just curious. I'm no expert on bikes by any means, but it seems like price is dictated by quality, many times quantified by such things as weight, performance, and low on the list to most bikers, durability, which is not the same as dependability, Many of the lower priced items on a bike have the same durability and dependability as the pricier up the ladder, but they don't shift as crisp or weigh more, or just cosmetically not refined. You decide what works for you, HTH
since im not even sure that i will select the right component it is better to stay away from hi performance for a while.
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03-23-21, 09:51 PM
#14
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Don't fret about hierarchy - Shimano derailleurs work more or less equally well. The only real difference is that the higher-end components weigh less, although that might not mean they last longer, or even as long. The 8-speed Altus on my Carrera Subway shifts as sweetly as you could ever imagine - it's such a gem, for its price, at least, that Rivendell's Grant Petersen wrote an ode to it (at the time of writing it cost $24):
https://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/8374...-modern-cheapy
Far more important, as Sheldon would have told you, is to keep the cables well lubed. I got a bit lazy during lockdown, rode the bike for transportation but didn't relube the cables for months, and while it still shifted well enough, the shifts had got a bit mushy - slightly slow to change up and I was having to overshift slightly when changing down. It was only after I relubed the rear derailleur cable and went back to barely being able to feel or hear the shift - i.e. 'normal' - that I realised how badly the shifting had 'gone off'. It wasn't wear or deterioration - there wasn't any - it was purely, 100 per cent, the cables drying out.
Same goes for hanger alignment - if it's out it'll make far more of a difference than different Shimano derailleur types.
Or to put it another way, provided everything's set up properly, I seriously doubt if you'd be able to tell the difference between the derailleurs you've listed.
hi you show a https://www.rivbike.com/product-p/d17.htm]Shimano Altus M310 rear derailer[/url] . if i understand well you like it for its price correct? would this Rder work well with megarange 6 speed and megarange 5 speed?
Still, as far as making a choice goes, sometimes the hardest choices are the ones that don't matter!
https://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/8374...-modern-cheapy
Far more important, as Sheldon would have told you, is to keep the cables well lubed. I got a bit lazy during lockdown, rode the bike for transportation but didn't relube the cables for months, and while it still shifted well enough, the shifts had got a bit mushy - slightly slow to change up and I was having to overshift slightly when changing down. It was only after I relubed the rear derailleur cable and went back to barely being able to feel or hear the shift - i.e. 'normal' - that I realised how badly the shifting had 'gone off'. It wasn't wear or deterioration - there wasn't any - it was purely, 100 per cent, the cables drying out.
Same goes for hanger alignment - if it's out it'll make far more of a difference than different Shimano derailleur types.
Or to put it another way, provided everything's set up properly, I seriously doubt if you'd be able to tell the difference between the derailleurs you've listed.
hi you show a https://www.rivbike.com/product-p/d17.htm]Shimano Altus M310 rear derailer[/url] . if i understand well you like it for its price correct? would this Rder work well with megarange 6 speed and megarange 5 speed?
Still, as far as making a choice goes, sometimes the hardest choices are the ones that don't matter!
Last edited by first trip; 03-23-21 at 09:57 PM.
03-23-21, 10:01 PM
#15
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Thread Starter
Don't fret about hierarchy - Shimano derailleurs work more or less equally well. The only real difference is that the higher-end components weigh less, although that might not mean they last longer, or even as long. The 8-speed Altus on my Carrera Subway shifts as sweetly as you could ever imagine - it's such a gem, for its price, at least, that Rivendell's Grant Petersen wrote an ode to it (at the time of writing it cost $24):
https://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/8374...-modern-cheapy
Far more important, as Sheldon would have told you, is to keep the cables well lubed. I got a bit lazy during lockdown, rode the bike for transportation but didn't relube the cables for months, and while it still shifted well enough, the shifts had got a bit mushy - slightly slow to change up and I was having to overshift slightly when changing down. It was only after I relubed the rear derailleur cable and went back to barely being able to feel or hear the shift - i.e. 'normal' - that I realised how badly the shifting had 'gone off'. It wasn't wear or deterioration - there wasn't any - it was purely, 100 per cent, the cables drying out.
Same goes for hanger alignment - if it's out it'll make far more of a difference than different Shimano derailleur types.
Or to put it another way, provided everything's set up properly, I seriously doubt if you'd be able to tell the difference between the derailleurs you've listed.
Still, as far as making a choice goes, sometimes the hardest choices are the ones that don't matter!
https://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/8374...-modern-cheapy
Far more important, as Sheldon would have told you, is to keep the cables well lubed. I got a bit lazy during lockdown, rode the bike for transportation but didn't relube the cables for months, and while it still shifted well enough, the shifts had got a bit mushy - slightly slow to change up and I was having to overshift slightly when changing down. It was only after I relubed the rear derailleur cable and went back to barely being able to feel or hear the shift - i.e. 'normal' - that I realised how badly the shifting had 'gone off'. It wasn't wear or deterioration - there wasn't any - it was purely, 100 per cent, the cables drying out.
Same goes for hanger alignment - if it's out it'll make far more of a difference than different Shimano derailleur types.
Or to put it another way, provided everything's set up properly, I seriously doubt if you'd be able to tell the difference between the derailleurs you've listed.
Still, as far as making a choice goes, sometimes the hardest choices are the ones that don't matter!
03-24-21, 12:54 AM
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My take on groupset ranking - for the three major manufacturers.
With a take on durability & robustness.
Take it all with a grain of salt - not everyone agrees with it, but that's what I think, based on my knowledge and experience (and priorities).
With a take on durability & robustness.
Take it all with a grain of salt - not everyone agrees with it, but that's what I think, based on my knowledge and experience (and priorities).
03-24-21, 03:48 AM
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I know that I am only interested in old Romet bikes, 1970-2005, so I can walk through the sea of bikes at the local charity shop and ignore almost all of them. I watch other people looking at them, and they seem more concerned about the opinions of other people who are not there.
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03-25-21, 12:26 AM
#18
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My take on groupset ranking - for the three major manufacturers.
With a take on durability & robustness.
Take it all with a grain of salt - not everyone agrees with it, but that's what I think, based on my knowledge and experience (and priorities).
With a take on durability & robustness.
Take it all with a grain of salt - not everyone agrees with it, but that's what I think, based on my knowledge and experience (and priorities).
03-25-21, 12:29 AM
#19
Junior Member
Thread Starter
...because you are trying to make a decision of no particular relevance to your life, but have yet to admit it
I know that I am only interested in old Romet bikes, 1970-2005, so I can walk through the sea of bikes at the local charity shop and ignore almost all of them. I watch other people looking at them, and they seem more concerned about the opinions of other people who are not there.
I know that I am only interested in old Romet bikes, 1970-2005, so I can walk through the sea of bikes at the local charity shop and ignore almost all of them. I watch other people looking at them, and they seem more concerned about the opinions of other people who are not there.
i invite you to practice humility because you have no ideo of my physical condition and the importance of bicycling in my life. maybe it was just a joke , im not angry at the same time sometime i have to adress boundaries. im peacefull no worry
03-25-21, 12:38 AM
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Ever.
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03-25-21, 01:21 AM
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Longer answer:
There's an array of models produced, over the years - for different groupsets of different manufacturers.
I have no idea what your budget and circumstances are, but even on a tight budget, I wouldn't worry too much about a particular model.
That is: check if the model you decide to go for matches your number of speeds, and can handle the gearing you desire (max sprocket size and chain-wrap capacity).
As for the rest - you generally get more durability, and no worse shifting, with higher classes. Up to (including) Deore.
After that, it's lower weight, more speeds, "extra features" - but the value of these highly depends on your intended use, budget and preferences.
Hope that helped.
Additional thoughts:
For me to provide any meaningful info - it would help a lot if I knew exactly what setup you have. Like:
The number of rear sprockets, and the cassette configuration (like 7-speed 11-32, or 10-speed 12-25 etc.).
The number of front chainrings and their configuration (double 50-34, or triple 48-38-28 etc.)
Current shifters' model (unless you are changing them as well).
Type of bicycle and riding style (a road bike, or a MTB - mostly off-road, or only pavement - do you have any long steep climbs etc.)
Your budget for this.
Most important: what problem are you trying to solve?
Do you already have a derailleur that doesn't work well?
It could be down to poor tuning, or even poor shifting technique (no offence intended - no one is born all-knowing).
03-26-21, 11:01 AM
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Just to throw a monkey wrench into the discussion, Often 2 different models are almost identical. I am building a bike currently and wanted to use Shimano 600 components. I have 2 derailleurs, a 600 ex and tricolor that apart from the color seem to be identical.
03-27-21, 02:08 PM
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How thin can you slice the baloney?
Look at how many component groups Shimano makes. They want to make sure that, however much money a consumer is willing to spend for a bicycle derailleur, Shimnano has a derailleur at exactly that price point.
Here's the deal: The more expensive ones really are nicer. They tend to operate a tiny bit more precisely, they tend to be slightly lighter in weight and they definitely look nicer. If you were to graph the performance of derailleurs, the line would be fairly straight as you move up the food chain. If you were to graph price, you'd see an exponential curve.
If it was my bike, I'd stick on whichever derailleur looked best while still performing adequately. Back when I was young and foolish I used to buy Ultegra or XT level parts because I wanted the panach value and I gagged over the Dura Ace/ XTR prices. If I were buying new parts today, I'd be looking at the lower priced offerings.
Look at how many component groups Shimano makes. They want to make sure that, however much money a consumer is willing to spend for a bicycle derailleur, Shimnano has a derailleur at exactly that price point.
Here's the deal: The more expensive ones really are nicer. They tend to operate a tiny bit more precisely, they tend to be slightly lighter in weight and they definitely look nicer. If you were to graph the performance of derailleurs, the line would be fairly straight as you move up the food chain. If you were to graph price, you'd see an exponential curve.
If it was my bike, I'd stick on whichever derailleur looked best while still performing adequately. Back when I was young and foolish I used to buy Ultegra or XT level parts because I wanted the panach value and I gagged over the Dura Ace/ XTR prices. If I were buying new parts today, I'd be looking at the lower priced offerings.
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My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
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03-30-21, 09:11 PM
#24
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I understand, I have arthritis in almost all my joints, and my spine is distorted and frozen as a result, plus I have psoriasis over most of my body: sometimes cycling and my wife is all I have to feel normal. The point is that you do not use your disabilities to snipe at someone else.
Ever.
Ever.
something that might help you is dr seignalet regime to eradicate non desirable inflamation . results are very impressing if you stick to his guidlines, trying to help you
03-30-21, 09:17 PM
#25
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How thin can you slice the baloney?
Look at how many component groups Shimano makes. They want to make sure that, however much money a consumer is willing to spend for a bicycle derailleur, Shimnano has a derailleur at exactly that price point.
Here's the deal: The more expensive ones really are nicer. They tend to operate a tiny bit more precisely, they tend to be slightly lighter in weight and they definitely look nicer. If you were to graph the performance of derailleurs, the line would be fairly straight as you move up the food chain. If you were to graph price, you'd see an exponential curve.
If it was my bike, I'd stick on whichever derailleur looked best while still performing adequately. Back when I was young and foolish I used to buy Ultegra or XT level parts because I wanted the panach value and I gagged over the Dura Ace/ XTR prices. If I were buying new parts today, I'd be looking at the lower priced offerings.
Look at how many component groups Shimano makes. They want to make sure that, however much money a consumer is willing to spend for a bicycle derailleur, Shimnano has a derailleur at exactly that price point.
Here's the deal: The more expensive ones really are nicer. They tend to operate a tiny bit more precisely, they tend to be slightly lighter in weight and they definitely look nicer. If you were to graph the performance of derailleurs, the line would be fairly straight as you move up the food chain. If you were to graph price, you'd see an exponential curve.
If it was my bike, I'd stick on whichever derailleur looked best while still performing adequately. Back when I was young and foolish I used to buy Ultegra or XT level parts because I wanted the panach value and I gagged over the Dura Ace/ XTR prices. If I were buying new parts today, I'd be looking at the lower priced offerings.
hi tx for this big picture.
if you will , im curious about your quote My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was
what do you mean, isn't being sensitive a positive traits , that can feel different thing with adjustment?