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Swapping rims.

Old 03-26-21, 12:25 AM
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Swapping rims.

Swapping rims.
I have a nicely built All-road bike with a decent set of wheels consisting Shimano Deore 650 hubs and nice SS spokes and MDA rims. I have a nice set of Mavic A319 rims that are 26mm outside width and the MDAs are 21mm. The Mavics have eyelets while the MDAs do not. I am running Schwalbe Big Apples and am wondering what will happen with those tires going to a wider rim.
Both sets of rims have the same ERD and swapping the rim will entail removing the nipples one at a time and swapping the spoke and nipple over to the new rim, truing, and then tensioning.

Is it worth it in this new time of quarantine here in Cambodia to do this.


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Old 03-26-21, 12:47 AM
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Old 03-26-21, 12:58 AM
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You'll put your eye out!
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Old 03-26-21, 01:11 AM
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Rim swapping sounds good in theory, but then later one rim and hub make a better fit and you are left with another rim and a hub that do not match at all.
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Old 03-26-21, 01:25 AM
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So Sorry, my computer sent out the post before I finished it, the above posts do not have my full original post.
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Old 03-26-21, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by bwilli88 View Post
......Is it worth it in this new time of quarantine here in Cambodia to do this.
What does the time & place have to do with anything?
You'll probably put someone else's eye out.
What are you actually trying to accomplish & why?
You won't see that much difference.
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Old 03-26-21, 03:11 AM
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I would not destroy good wheels, when it may or may not be a good idea.

You could pick up another set of hubs, build your new wheels, and have two sets.
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Old 03-26-21, 03:26 AM
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Actually I have 3 sets of wheels in this scenario,1, the set on the bike, 2, the set with the mavic A319 rims, built with SS spokes and shimano 105 hubs(more road bikey), and 3, a set with Shimano Deore 530 hubs and Bontrager rims with eyelets and SS spokes.
The existing wheels have 18mm inside 21mm outside size rims without eyelets.
The 105 wheels have the A319 rims with 22mm inside and 26mm outside rims with eyelets
the bontrager wheelset has 18+mm inside and 22mm outside rims with eyelets.
I am thinking that the Deore 650 hubs with the A319 rims will provide a stronger set of wheels.
OBTW, I am a Clyde at over 230 lbs.
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Old 03-26-21, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by bwilli88 View Post
Swapping rims.
I have a nicely built All-road bike with a decent set of wheels consisting Shimano Deore 650 hubs and nice SS spokes and MDA rims. I have a nice set of Mavic A319 rims that are 26mm outside width and the MDAs are 21mm. The Mavics have eyelets while the MDAs do not. I am running Schwalbe Big Apples and am wondering what will happen with those tires going to a wider rim.
Both sets of rims have the same ERD and swapping the rim will entail removing the nipples one at a time and swapping the spoke and nipple over to the new rim, truing, and then tensioning.

Is it worth it in this new time of quarantine here in Cambodia to do this.

That is a handsome looking machine!

Have you considered removing a tire and tube and gently fitting them to one of the other rims, gently inflating the tire so it just takes the shape? If you happen to have a spare hub and set of spokes you could do a temporary wheel build - I laced a wheel the other evening simply to test how far off the spoke lengths were for a replacement hub.
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Old 03-26-21, 07:45 AM
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I could easily swap the tire to the A319 rims as they are built up with the Shimano 105 hubs.
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Old 03-26-21, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bwilli88 View Post
Swapping rims.
I have a nicely built All-road bike with a decent set of wheels consisting Shimano Deore 650 hubs and nice SS spokes and MDA rims. I have a nice set of Mavic A319 rims that are 26mm outside width and the MDAs are 21mm. The Mavics have eyelets while the MDAs do not. I am running Schwalbe Big Apples and am wondering what will happen with those tires going to a wider rim.
Both sets of rims have the same ERD and swapping the rim will entail removing the nipples one at a time and swapping the spoke and nipple over to the new rim, truing, and then tensioning.

Is it worth it in this new time of quarantine here in Cambodia to do this.
I wouldn’t. At least not until something goes wrong with the original rims. ‘Tain’t broke. Don’t fix it. Swapping rims is fairly trivial but if it’s unnecessary, why do it? Ride your current wheels until they break (or try to break them) and go from there.
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Old 03-27-21, 09:11 AM
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You have quite a few relatives in Lancaster, PA? Are you Amish?

Anyway, if you want to swap rims it does take some effort but its not rocket surgery. All the advice above (if it ain't broke, don't fix it) applies, but sometimes "man's reach should exceed his grasp, else what's a heaven for?".

First thing is to fine the ERD (effective rim diameter) of the current rim. Should be posted for your exact rim. Then find the ERD for the new rim. If they're the same you'll be able to use your original spokes. Take off tire, tube, rimstrip from the original. Loosen each spoke a fixed number of turns (5 or 10? What do the experts say?). The hub should be loose and easily moved from side to side at this point. Tape the new rim to the old, aligning the hole for the stem, and ensuring that the hole offset (every other hole may be offset to one side or the other) matches. Then take the nipple off a spoke (start with the spokes on one side of the hub, the side that's on the side of the new hub) and pull the spoke out, transferring it to the corresponding hole in the other rim. Screw the nipple on a fixed number of turns (say 5) - you should have a little play. Repeat until you have all the spokes from that side transferred. Then do the other side.

If you've a new rim with a different ERD than the original, you may have to buy new spokes. There is some info on-line, and some spoke-length calculators available too. Calculate length and price new spokes. This can be expensive depending upon how "optimal" you want your spokes to be. You can buy ultra-high strength polyethylene spokes (!) for about $250/rim, or everyday plain-jane stainless spokes for ~20 bucks per wheel. But get the right size!

After this, you probably should read up a lot on how to tighten, true, and prestress the wheel. For years, folks put new rims and adjusted overall tension by feel. Or by tone: they'd pluck the tightened spokes to ensure consistent pitch. Some people have good enough pitch to specify the actual pitch (G with plain spokes, A with butted). Or, you can buy a spoke tension meter and look up optimum pitch. Or you can use your 2nd wheel as a gauge to inform the tension of the new wheel. The tension has to be about correct (exact is not super critical, and too loose probably worse than a little bit too tight) but the wheel has to be true. If you have good mechanical insight and are good with your hands, the first wheel may take a day or two. The second wheel, a few hours. And so forth. In the shop I worked in as a lad, Perry O. could do a wheel in about ten minutes, maybe less. I was always impressed by speed and skill he used to make a wheel.

For an orientation, check out the late Sheldon Brown's site on wheelbuilding. Books you might consider are The Bicycle Wheel 3rd Edition: Jobst Brandt, Roger Musson's Professional Guide to Wheel Building 7th Edition. Gerd Schraner's "The art of wheelbuilding has some nice info, but some of the arguments (tying and soldering spoke crossings) is not, errrr, "orthodox"". I think Musson's book may have the most practical stuff and its available on-line. But I like Brandt, too.

Your bike looks very nice- very clean and functional. The area in your pictures looks like a great place to ride. Good luck.

Last edited by WizardOfBoz; 03-27-21 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 03-27-21, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
I wouldn’t. At least not until something goes wrong with the original rims. ‘Tain’t broke. Don’t fix it. Swapping rims is fairly trivial but if it’s unnecessary, why do it? Ride your current wheels until they break (or try to break them) and go from there.
cyccommute has given you the correct answer from an engineer's point of view. To an engineer, by the way, that's the only possible correct answer.

An artist would tell you to keep changing things on the bike until it makes you happy. To an artist, by the way, that's the only possible correct answer.
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Old 03-27-21, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
cyccommute has given you the correct answer from an engineer's point of view. To an engineer, by the way, that's the only possible correct answer.

An artist would tell you to keep changing things on the bike until it makes you happy. To an artist, by the way, that's the only possible correct answer.
Not an engineer. Just being practical.

And, to be sure, this is coming from a guy who took a bike with perfectly serviceable Avid BB7 front discs and rear Avid Arch Rival V-brakes and swapped those out for TRP Spykes and Paul Motolite. And then, just because I wanted green brakes, swapped out the Spykes for Paul Klampers. I also changed from plain black spoke nipples to green ones for no other reason than I wanted that color.

I’m a chemist, by the way. To explain the difference, a chemist and an engineer walk into a bathroom. They both do their business at the urinal. The engineer walks over to the sink and starts to wash his hands. The chemist heads for the door. The engineer says, ”Hey, buddy! They taught use to wash our hands after going to the bathroom in engineering school!”

The chemist answers, “Well in chemistry school they taught us not to pee on our hands.”
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Old 03-27-21, 09:32 PM
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Two of the wheel sets were built by me and the one is factory. The rims are all within a mm or 2 of the same ERD. It would be relatively easy to do this just time consuming.
The end result would be a wider set on my all-road and a narrower set for my 105 equipped road bike.
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Old 03-27-21, 09:47 PM
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Ok, it sounds like you know exactly what it takes to build wheels, and the rims are about the same size.

Isn't the answer really your personal preference?
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Old 03-29-21, 04:56 AM
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So, My decision ended up as.
Leave them all as they are and use the wheels with the M530 hubs.
The Mavic rims with the 105 hubs will go back on my Fuji if I ever get it repainted as it will get the rest of the 105 group.
The wheels with the T610 hubs were removed from the All-Road bike and left as they are and put in storage for another bike some time.
So that leaves the better eyeletted rims with the M530 hubs, they went on the All-Road since they are Mt Bike hubs they have a better set of seals on the bearings.
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