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Tire Bead Jack Required with Third World Tires

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Tire Bead Jack Required with Third World Tires

Old 04-13-21, 06:36 PM
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michaelm101
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Tire Bead Jack Required with Third World Tires

I've objectively discovered in the last decade that all my NOT MADE IN GERMANY (Third World) tires are impossible to get on the rim by hand. Is it me of are others having similar issues? I have tennis elbow and wrist issues and am simply not interested in wrestling with my tires anymore.

This wonderful extra 100 grams (Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack) is coming along for the ride whenever I'm on Third World tires!
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Old 04-13-21, 07:03 PM
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This is insulting, maybe a provocation. The usual problems in getting the beads have to do with skills of the operator who may then seek some outside to blame for. My common exercise is to put tires on without the use of any tools or force, just by conscious manipulation of the tire and tube vs the rim. Yes, tools can make it faster, allowing you to take shortcuts, disregarding precision.
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Old 04-13-21, 07:12 PM
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I, and my bike mechanic friend, have a terrible time installing Continental Grand Prix 5000 (Handmade in Germany) onto my Mavic Open Sport rims. Some combos just are tougher than others. Country of origin has nothing to do with it.
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Old 04-13-21, 07:17 PM
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Source of manufacture has nothing to do with it. It is specific combination of rim, tire and in some cases tubes. I have had it happen with conti gatorskins, on one bike but when I moved them to another bike (with different rims) no problem

Also tubeless specific is a whole different world, don't buy these if you are not doing tubeless
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Old 04-13-21, 07:50 PM
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What countries are aligned with the non-existent Soviet Union and then what countries are you buying tires from that would be not aligned with either the Soviet era U.S. or the actual Soviet Union which hasn't existed for a while? Third world is an old Cold War term and the Cold War is long over now. Maybe you have been stuck in a bunker for over 30 years and missed all the news reports?

Country of origin has nothing to do with tire difficulty, I have had plenty of fun times installing Continental tires made in Germany on bikes and the worst happen to be Challenge tires (it is in the name) but those are open tubulars and their origin has nothing to do with the difficulty it is just the construction of the tire any open tubular is tough Vittoria is not a ton different and I am sure Veloflex and Tufo aren't any different either. Some tires are just tough to get on regardless of their affiliation during the Cold War.
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Old 04-13-21, 08:05 PM
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I've had tires that needed a bead jack, and some that would blow off the rim if not mounted carefully. The brands were Continental and Schwalbe.

Since I mount my own tires, it would be a rather freak occurrence if I got caught without a bead jack by surprise while on a ride. If the tires are tight when I put them on, I throw a bead jack in the bag. One bike in the family fleet has tires that are so tight, that they're just not serviceable in the field. In general, bikes that are "for experts only" are an impediment to the enjoyment of cycling.
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Old 04-13-21, 11:11 PM
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The other day I struggled to get a pair of Polish-made Stomil Antilopes, dating from the 1980s, off and back on a 20" wheel, while my others have been no problem. I suspect having spent the last 25 years in a basement had something to do with it

Continuing on the subject of Stomil tires, a bicycle tire brand that sunk without trace in 2005, I had two bikes that had barely moved since then with some of the last stock fitted, but each with different tread patterns. One pair were soft and came off easily, the other pair were like plastic and a nightmare. However, after some riding, the plastic-like ones became easy to remove and refit too.

There are a lot of factors that can affect tire removal and replacement.
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Old 04-14-21, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by 2_i View Post
The usual problems in getting the beads have to do with skills of the operator who may then seek some outside to blame for. My common exercise is to put tires on without the use of any tools or force, just by conscious manipulation of the tire and tube vs the rim. Yes, tools can make it faster, allowing you to take shortcuts, disregarding precision.
I used to feel that way, back when I worked in a bike shop. But now that I'm 65 years old with arthritis in both hands (perhaps a result of years of wrestling stubborn tires onto rims with my bare hands?), assistive devices can be necessary, and a bead jack is the safest device with which to mount a stubborn tire.
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Old 04-14-21, 07:39 AM
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This issue is an old one. Back in the 1970s when I started my bike shop life we had hard to mount tire/rim combos. These days we still do. I won't be the one to say that any country of origin having no consistent aspect, rim or tire. having said that some brands do seem to be closer to one end or the other end of tolerance range. Conti being one on the tighter fit end of tolerance often. But I've found it's the rim that has the greater design contribution, how deep is the bed. Since rims are made in batches of 10 (or so usually) the same rim model can see drift from intended spec far more readily then the thousands of tires coming out of the same mold.

I have offered customers the chance to mount the various tire offerings we have to find the ones that they can handle WRT the actual rims on their bike. We also try to keep in sock the Kool Stop tire jack, but don't sell many as they're not needed often.

I'm 65 years old and still will come across a really hard to mount combo. But being a guy and a pro wrench it's a matter of shop pride to avoid a tool to mount Andy
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Old 04-14-21, 09:02 AM
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My first job was in a bike shop that sold Trek bikes. They had their own brand of rim and tires (Matrix), and Matrix tires were an almost impossibly tight fit on Matrix rims.

I also bought a pair of Ritchey WCS tires that were on clearance, I believe because they were borderline defective they were so tight on some WTB rims that other tires fit on fine.
Funnily enough, the bike with Ritchey tires was stolen from my yard, then a friend found it on the roadside in the next town being thrown out with the trash a few years later. There was a cut in one of the tires and I suspect the 'new owner'(thief) gave up trying to get the tire off and just threw the bike out.
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Old 04-14-21, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
I've had tires that needed a bead jack, and some that would blow off the rim if not mounted carefully. The brands were Continental and Schwalbe.

Since I mount my own tires, it would be a rather freak occurrence if I got caught without a bead jack by surprise while on a ride. If the tires are tight when I put them on, I throw a bead jack in the bag. One bike in the family fleet has tires that are so tight, that they're just not serviceable in the field. In general, bikes that are "for experts only" are an impediment to the enjoyment of cycling.
These are my not buy tires. The Schwalbes were the worst, even with the bead jack.
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Old 04-14-21, 11:09 AM
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If you don't have a cheap set of tire levers a set of old spoons will make do. The only time I ever had trouble was with a BMX rim where the sidewall was a few mm's too wide. I had to use my friends motorcycle tire lever
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Old 04-14-21, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
This issue is an old one. Back in the 1970s when I started my bike shop life we had hard to mount tire/rim combos. These days we still do. I won't be the one to say that any country of origin having no consistent aspect, rim or tire. having said that some brands do seem to be closer to one end or the other end of tolerance range. Conti being one on the tighter fit end of tolerance often. But I've found it's the rim that has the greater design contribution, how deep is the bed. Since rims are made in batches of 10 (or so usually) the same rim model can see drift from intended spec far more readily then the thousands of tires coming out of the same mold.

I have offered customers the chance to mount the various tire offerings we have to find the ones that they can handle WRT the actual rims on their bike. We also try to keep in sock the Kool Stop tire jack, but don't sell many as they're not needed often.

I'm 65 years old and still will come across a really hard to mount combo. But being a guy and a pro wrench it's a matter of shop pride to avoid a tool to mount Andy
That makes sense. Given that the mold has to be precisely machined, it's hard to imagine tires varying unless it's a design decision. And since the wire bead is probably made on a separate machine, if there were too much variation of beads or molds, you'd be throwing out a lot of bad tires.

Given that I'm not a pro bike mechanic, but a musician, it's a matter of pride to avoid injuring my hands. So I tend to reach for the tools before they're strictly necessary.
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Old 04-14-21, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
I used to feel that way, back when I worked in a bike shop. But now that I'm 65 years old with arthritis in both hands (perhaps a result of years of wrestling stubborn tires onto rims with my bare hands?), assistive devices can be necessary, and a bead jack is the safest device with which to mount a stubborn tire.
I have all kinds of rim and tire combinations, including the dreaded Matrix rims and some overfilled with rim tape as well as new studded tires. The most challenging I found the small 16" wheels and yes for these I have studded tires too. The short circumference gives you less wiggle room than long. In each case, though, the patience and thought can win the day - I do not recall a combination that could not be mounted with bare hands only. Still, for shortcuts, to make it quick, I have a selection of tools, see below, and these are only those for the last step of mounting and not even all that I have are shown, just the more interesting ones.


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Old 04-14-21, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelm101 View Post
I've objectively discovered in the last decade that all my NOT MADE IN GERMANY (Third World) tires are impossible to get on the rim by hand.
Ah yes. The country that lost not one, but two World Wars.

John
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Old 04-14-21, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 2_i View Post
I have all kinds of rim and tire combinations, including the dreaded Matrix rims and some overfilled with rim tape as well as new studded tires. The most challenging I found the small 16" wheels and yes for these I have studded tires too. The short circumference gives you less wiggle room than long. In each case, though, the patience and thought can win the day - I do not recall a combination that could not be mounted with bare hands only.
The most difficult tires I ever had to mount were the 7" diameter front tires on my Dad's wheelchair. I had to get them hot in the clothes drier, and even then they were a struggle, even using a bead jack.
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Old 04-14-21, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 2_i View Post
My common exercise is to put tires on without the use of any tools or force, just by conscious manipulation of the tire and tube vs the rim. Yes, tools can make it faster, allowing you to take shortcuts, disregarding precision.
My common exercise is the same as yours....with most tires and rims. However, I have encountered a few tire/rim combinations that I defy you to install strictly by hand. For these cases, tools weren't a shortcut, they were a necessity and "precision" had nothing to do with it.
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Old 04-14-21, 04:16 PM
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I always love these tire mounting threads.

I’m going to be 70 this year and I need to remind myself to never say to my grandchildren...

“Hey kids do you want to watch grandpa put a tire on without any tools?”

To which they would reply...

“Why would you want to do that?”

John
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Old 04-14-21, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
I always love these tire mounting threads.

I’m going to be 70 this year and I need to remind myself to never say to my grandchildren...

“Hey kids do you want to watch grandpa put a tire on without any tools?”

To which they would reply...

“Why would you want to do that?”

John
I can remove them and put them on without anything but my fingers. GP 5000's, Vittoria Rubino Pro's, Specialized Turbo Pros and Bontrager something. No idea what country they were made in. All 23 to 26 mm 700C tires on various brands of alloy rims.

I have to get in the zone to remove them though. But once you know the trick it is pretty easy. It's the trick that is a little difficult.
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Old 04-14-21, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
I always love these tire mounting threads.

I’m going to be 70 this year and I need to remind myself to never say to my grandchildren...

“Hey kids do you want to watch grandpa put a tire on without any tools?”

To which they would reply...

“Why would you want to do that?”

John
My incident was of two kids that wanted to ride but needed to fix a flat tire first. I equipped them with materials and tools for the task, but also prepared a third younger kid with a camera, instructing to roll as the swearing set in. The shooting was quite successful and they later asked how did I know.
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Old 04-14-21, 04:37 PM
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I COULD NOT mount brand new Conti "Handmade In Germany" tires on my old Fulcrum Racing 5s from 2006 without levers. I used to mount them on another bike with Velocity rims first, run them for a week or two, THEN move the stretched tires to the Fulcrums.

This year I discovered the old Fulcrums developed cracks at most of the spokeholes in the rear wheel. So I got a new set Racing 5s. New Contis go right onto those without an issue, and can even be taken off without levers.

I wish somebody'd told me about the Trek Matrix rims, though. I just bought an old RX100/Matrix wheelset for my 1994 Cannondale, and I had a hell of a time getting tires on them, even with levers.
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Old 04-14-21, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cb400bill View Post
country of origin has nothing to do with it.
+1
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Old 04-15-21, 05:06 AM
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Living in a 3rd world country, almost all the local tires are simple to slide on by hand. It is the fancy ones I have a problem with.
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Old 04-15-21, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
I used to feel that way, back when I worked in a bike shop. But now that I'm 65 years old with arthritis in both hands (perhaps a result of years of wrestling stubborn tires onto rims with my bare hands?), assistive devices can be necessary, and a bead jack is the safest device with which to mount a stubborn tire.
^^^ My PCP says arthritis typically starts in the thumbs and for the past 10 years has made me very sensitive to this issue and I strongly agree with the above and disagree with the OP.
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Old 04-15-21, 01:40 PM
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Back in the olden days when I owned a bike shop and changed a lot of tires, I prided myself in my ability to remove and reinstall bike tires using no tools at all.

I can't do that anymore. On the other hand, tires have gotten a lot better so I get many fewer punctures than I used to.
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