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Disc Brake rubbing - help needed.

Old 04-19-21, 11:13 AM
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Ti473
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Disc Brake rubbing - help needed.

Hey folks, I got a cannondale caad 10, QR disc.
I recently upgraded from a set of mavic Ksyrium Pro disc to EVNE SES 5.6.

Without getting into the debate of rim vs disc...

With the new wheels I cannot get rid of the annoying disc rub, but only when I put some torque on the front end while climbing/standing/accelerating.

Things to be said:

Rotors on new wheels are dura ace and are actually a tad thinner than the Sram on the Mavics
Rotors are true, calipers have been aligned perfectly (when bike is on the stand there's equal gap all the way around, no rubbing), pistons have been cleaned and retract evenly, pads are organic so should be quieter than metal ones.
The wheel is seated all the way in the dropouts and skewer is tight as hell. I noticed that it seemed to get a little better when I tightened the living crap out of it, but still a little rub.

Here's my guess to what's happening: there's a little flex/play in the hub that causes the evil rub. I don't know if the fact that the Enve's are really a 12x100 hub converted to 9x100 via caps exacerbates the problem. The Mavic hubs were born as a true 9x100 QR disc hub, and although things are a little finicky to get aligned (welcome to the disc world), I can always get them right.

I'm almost thinking about using one of those 12 to 9 sleeve adapters to see if it helps, although the clamping force should still be transferred from the fork to the end caps (it would be the 12mm caps though). to the to the axle to the hub body.

Before I resort to my park tool NE 4.1, any suggestions?
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Old 04-19-21, 11:14 AM
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P.S. This is on the front end only.
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Old 04-19-21, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Ti473 View Post
Hey folks, I got a cannondale caad 10, QR disc.
I recently upgraded from a set of mavic Ksyrium Pro disc to EVNE SES 5.6.

Without getting into the debate of rim vs disc...

With the new wheels I cannot get rid of the annoying disc rub, but only when I put some torque on the front end while climbing/standing/accelerating.

Things to be said:

Rotors on new wheels are dura ace and are actually a tad thinner than the Sram on the Mavics
Rotors are true, calipers have been aligned perfectly (when bike is on the stand there's equal gap all the way around, no rubbing), pistons have been cleaned and retract evenly, pads are organic so should be quieter than metal ones.
The wheel is seated all the way in the dropouts and skewer is tight as hell. I noticed that it seemed to get a little better when I tightened the living crap out of it, but still a little rub.

Here's my guess to what's happening: there's a little flex/play in the hub that causes the evil rub. I don't know if the fact that the Enve's are really a 12x100 hub converted to 9x100 via caps exacerbates the problem. The Mavic hubs were born as a true 9x100 QR disc hub, and although things are a little finicky to get aligned (welcome to the disc world), I can always get them right.

I'm almost thinking about using one of those 12 to 9 sleeve adapters to see if it helps, although the clamping force should still be transferred from the fork to the end caps (it would be the 12mm caps though). to the to the axle to the hub body.

Before I resort to my park tool NE 4.1, any suggestions?
Don't adjust the calibers so there is equal gap all around. Adjust them so they don't rub after releasing the brake lever. Just don't look at them. That's my 2 cents worth. Try it.
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Old 04-19-21, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
Don't adjust the calibers so there is equal gap all around. Adjust them so they don't rub after releasing the brake lever. Just don't look at them. That's my 2 cents worth. Try it.
I'm pretty sure I know what you don't do for a living.
I think the OP is on the right track w/ his thinking, and it may end up being really hard to get this perfectly quiet.
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Old 04-19-21, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
I'm pretty sure I know what you don't do for a living.
I think the OP is on the right track w/ his thinking, and it may end up being really hard to get this perfectly quiet.
You are right... I'm not a professional bicycle mechanic, but I make a lot more money than a Richard like you!
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Old 04-19-21, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
You are right... I'm not a professional bicycle mechanic, but I make a lot more money than a Richard like you!
I'm very happy for you, and mightily impressed. Still doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. Seems to be a typical stance for guys that make good money, you think it automatically includes knowledge.
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Old 04-19-21, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
I'm very happy for you, and mightily impressed. Still doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. Seems to be a typical stance for guys that make good money, you think it automatically includes knowledge.
I can think of a certain politician who exemplifies this attitude.
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Old 04-19-21, 06:04 PM
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Ouchie! Two Richards are better than one!
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Old 04-19-21, 06:09 PM
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Old 04-19-21, 08:16 PM
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Well I'm glad we avoided the rim vs disc debate!
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Old 04-19-21, 08:27 PM
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Oh wow you make more money than the poor stupid bike monkey who dances for your crappy huffy good on you. I enjoy what I do and I am sure cxwrench would say the same. I get to be around bikes all day, sure I don't make a ton of money but I have a more fulfilling life than being some random schmuck in an office.

Anywho to not derail things further I think the disc brake problem is a tough one. It could be that you are getting some flex while you are pedaling and that can cause rubbing especially with QR wheels. I have certainly seen that when no rubbing in the stand but when you get in the saddle it will make little ticks here and there. There isn't a good solution for that aside from getting a new fork and going thru-axle but that is kind of the nuclear option and really isn't worth it. If it is significant rub than you rotor could be out of true which is getting more common these days especially with Shimano rotors sadly (they are usually great rotors with few issues but the past couple years have seen a slight increase in out of true rotors not huge but enough to notice it)
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Old 04-19-21, 09:56 PM
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The rotor is as true as it's gonna get. Not to the micron or anything but after fine tuning it, it's probably truer than they come out of the box.

the gaps are pretty even and consistent all the way around when on the stand. I think the problem is flex in the hub. Like i said the other wheel does not rub, even with slightly thicker rotors, so i think fork is fine.
I have a spare set of QR caps for this that i am going to try to mod by flushing out the 9mm flange and opening the hole to 9mm so i can use a DT swiss RWS axle/skewer i just remembered i had laying around. This hopefully stiffens things up a little... We'll see
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Old 04-19-21, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
If that isn't ominous I don't know what is...
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Old 04-20-21, 05:49 AM
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Glad to see someone got the hint. Let’s find a way to get along, or just move along.
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Old 04-20-21, 07:19 AM
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I am inclined to think that acceleration and hard pedaling in and of itself is not going to cause the front to rub.

Do you mean it rubs when the front wheel is side loaded? Does it rub if you are coasting in a straight line and lean the bike to one side?

Last edited by Kapusta; 04-20-21 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 04-20-21, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
You are right... I'm not a professional bicycle mechanic, but I make a lot more money than a Richard like you!
I was actually on Team Trailangel in this exchange until you dropped this turd.
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Old 04-20-21, 08:08 AM
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Oh dear me... what have I done? I wasn't aware that only Professional Bike Mechanics were exclusive to the Mechanics portion of the website and they were the ones to respond to questions. I had no intentions of bringing out or offending the Prickly Petes here. In the future I will let the Pro BMs answer all the questions!
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Old 04-20-21, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
I am inclined to think that acceleration and hard pedaling in and of itself is not going to cause the front to rub.

Do you mean it rubs when the front wheel is side loaded? Does it rub if you are coasting in a straight line and lean the bike to one side?
it does not rub if you're just pedaling in a straight line or even turning. But when you accelerate/stand and basically put some torque on the bars, it creates some flex that is enough to produce that rubbing. If I stand next to the bike and put some weight on the bars you can see the pads getting closer to the disc. I think to some degree flex is normal, but shouldn't be so much that pads rub.
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Old 04-20-21, 08:41 AM
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Just throwing this out there, I was chasing down a brake rubbing issue during a ride last week, and it was driving me bonkers, every couple of miles, I was backing off the pads hoping to eliminate that stupid sound. In my case, it turns out that I was actually getting some spoke rub on the wheel. I retensioned the wheel (I neglect this bike even though it get used the most) and then the rubbing went away. I could not believe that I didn't think of that first (aero spokes in my case so a lot of surface area to rub). Anyway, just throwing it out there that there might be something else that's causing the noise. In my case, on the stand the wheel was silent, but under load it was noisy as heck.
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Old 04-20-21, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
I'm pretty sure I know what you don't do for a living.
I think the OP is on the right track w/ his thinking, and it may end up being really hard to get this perfectly quiet.
Start out with a unwarranted dig to someone who is offering a idea then offer no solution yourself. Very helpful.

I have had instances with SRAM calipers not moving equally and had to offset to stop rubbing.

Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 04-20-21 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 04-20-21, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
Start out with a unwarranted dig to someone who is offering a idea then offer no solution yourself. Very helpful.
His offer of help was incorrect, that's not how you adjust a disc brake. The OP has done everything correctly so I can't offer any help, but I can warn him that certain advice shouldn't be followed.
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Old 04-20-21, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
Start out with a unwarranted dig to someone who is offering a idea then offer no solution yourself. Very helpful.

I have had instances with SRAM calipers not moving equally and had to offset to stop rubbing.
Yes. The o.p overightened the skewer and it didn't fix it. So that doesn't work..
How big is the gap between piston and rotor?
Push on the wheel at the rim on the stand and see where the rub is. What play is in the hub to cause this? Which side does it rub.
You have to try other things.
Slacken the rotor bolts land pull the brake hard and rettorque the bolts. If that doesn't fix it try the caliper bolts. Test the brake before you ride it.
Or if it's very slight rub it will eventually wear in.

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Old 04-20-21, 12:52 PM
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I think maybe the torque introduced by the aggressive riding is slightly flexing the fork legs and causing the rub. I had an old MTB with first-gen hydraulic disc and QR hubs... and the flexy Judy Suspension fork definitely contributed to brake rub, even though none existed in the truing stand. Not a great solution from a cost standpoint, but maybe swap the fork out for one with a thru-axle and get a compatible wheel?

Or maybe just use two credit cards inserted in the caliper when you gap the brake pads like I did with that MTB.
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Old 04-21-21, 07:21 AM
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I double checked the thread title. It's about brakes, not other people.
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Old 04-21-21, 10:14 AM
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That is a pretty tight gap between the rotors. It's definitely due to flex when you get on it. So the question becomes, how do you get a little more space on either side of the rotor? You've done everything I would have tried to include cleaning the pistons and working them in and out to make sure they don't stick on one side or the other. You've aligned the caliper by hand.... The only thing left to try is bleeding the system, but I don't think it will fix the gap issue since you said the pistons are working as they should.
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