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How to access cone nut to remove axle?

Old 04-19-21, 07:05 PM
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qkcam
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How to access cone nut to remove axle?

anyone have any idea how to get down into this wheel to get the cone nut seperated. i took it to a bike shop yesterday and we couldn't get the gears off..but i soaked it in pb plaster and removed the "falcon" bearing set to get the gears off.
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Old 04-19-21, 07:33 PM
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No better description or photos means we are blind. It's hard for a blind person to tell you the color of your eyes.

This forum restricts your ability to directly include photos in the post until one has 10 "real" posts. One can link to a third party photo sharing site but the address will have to be disguised with "@" or "." written out as "at" or "dot". Andy
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Old 04-19-21, 07:40 PM
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shucks! I dont have a third party.. i did upload an image but forgot i am not yet qualified.

any idea?
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Old 04-19-21, 07:42 PM
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short I write a bunch of short "reaL" posts?
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Old 04-19-21, 07:48 PM
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One could reply to other posts with real comments. The admins frown on fake posts. Andy
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Old 04-19-21, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by qkcam View Post
short I write a bunch of short "reaL" posts?
No because those aren't real posts those are just someone failing to enjoy bikes and bike forums and using us as google or altavista or ask Jeeves. However you wouldn't do that because you took the time to sign up for a bike forum so you clearly have an interest in bikes and talking about them so posting in different threads on different bike related topics with reasonable conversation would be enjoyable for you. I know I enjoy it and getting to 10 posts is super easy if you enjoy yourself. If not and I was wrong about you then google or any other search engine would be happy for your traffic but this might not be the spot for you.
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Old 04-19-21, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
No because those aren't real posts those are just someone failing to enjoy bikes and bike forums and using us as google or altavista or ask Jeeves. However you wouldn't do that because you took the time to sign up for a bike forum so you clearly have an interest in bikes and talking about them so posting in different threads on different bike related topics with reasonable conversation would be enjoyable for you. I know I enjoy it and getting to 10 posts is super easy if you enjoy yourself. If not and I was wrong about you then google or any other search engine would be happy for your traffic but this might not be the spot for you.
Dear Veganbikes you are correct I enjoy bikes and i enjoy learning and fixing things. I used to with my dad work on a few bikes as a kid..it always felt rewarding...gosh back in those days bikes seemed much easier..just basic tools needed. Now I am seeing things are alot more complex.

However I feel i do not fall into either of the catagories you have pegged me. I am a disablefd person .. while i used to ride my bike as a kid and teen (many years ago) all day and half the nite. I am living with the chronic lyme disease and chronic fatigue.. all that to say.. I do not have the luxury of energy to spend doing things that are not really essential for my living condition. .. is riding a bike criticial to my living condition? heck at this point I have no idea if / how much I can really ride a bike.

I know in my mind I love the idea of being able to really ride ... i dont know if my body can handle it ..time will tell. I had an old Marin mountain bike but I found a crack in the frame.. so i picked up a really really cheap used one.. the good thing.. it got me out of the city and into an area i used to go ride with my dog. the bad news is it has an issue..

we have a local bike coop that is non profit and even they were stumped. I wish I had time/ energy and reading ability to look though and learn everything i can .. but I dont have that opportunity.. the time i spend trying to fix bike ( well maybe i should have just bought a new one..- but if i can't ride it ..i dont want to spend so much) is time that i probably need to be doing other things to work on my health. like food ..figuring out how to get more vegetables how to make them tasty and easy get them into mybody. and also a huge one i really should be spending time figuring out how to organize my apartment and downsize so i can move .. soon.

I just lost a week from some very delayed reactions to the vaccine.. oddly it was also just after attempting the 1 x bike ride .

so is there a catagory for disabled but trying to keep living and needs help.

and I did try the google source.. and as i said i even tried the bike non profit self repair. . i guess my next option is to find a 24" wheel and just not worry about getting it apart to clean out the bearings..ya know? i just hate tossing stuff into the trash/ landfill or where ever it wont be used .

it might be easier finding a matching "google" search if i knew the name of the part that holds the 70 ( i hope i found them all after then fell out) bearings . I was able ot get the
""freewheel" off.. by twising clockwise the falcon ring in the middle . i hope i got all the bearings. .. but i still couldn't get the rest of the axle. out. i reckon it is a dead deal.

I am suprised i was able to type so much.. usually i am totally exhuasted by this time.. well by 3pm usually.. i had some energy drink earily as i had to pick up the tools i had laid out side trying to find something to use to get that thing apart.
see i start aproject even something as simple as digging through tools..and then i get exhausted.. my brain gets confused and unclear and i get stuck..but because the tools were outside.. i needed to make sure to bring them in..so i had to push through.

take good care and if you have any easy ..i mean super easy veggies and how to get them in on the regular basis.. if you want to share.. i would love it.. but not to worry.. becasue mabye i am "one of those people" i have no idea.
who i am anymore. even before covid.. i pretty much had become and isolated hermit due to the fatigue and immune issues caused by chronic lyme.. and riding bike again may just be a pipe dream. why are they called 'pipe dreams" ? anyway.

thanks and hope you have some fun!
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Old 04-19-21, 10:19 PM
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if I am not the right fit here.. just let me know.. thanks
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Old 04-20-21, 04:34 AM
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qkcam:
The word "Falcon" in your post suggests to me that your bike might have a Falcon brand freewheel or cassette.

See this Park tool pages:
Freewheel or cassette?
If it's a freewheel, this is the tool for it.
If cassette, I'm not sure which tool you need, google won't tell me, but I suspect a Shimano style tool is what's called for.

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Old 04-20-21, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by qkcam View Post
if I am not the right fit here.. just let me know.. thanks
Don't know, I didn't read your long diatribe. So whether you fit any better than any other I don't know.

But there is a gallery here on BF you can upload pics to. Even as a newb and before your magical 10th post.

So what's your problem.
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Old 04-20-21, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by qkcam View Post
Dear Veganbikes you are correct I enjoy bikes and i enjoy learning and fixing things. I used to with my dad work on a few bikes as a kid..it always felt rewarding...gosh back in those days bikes seemed much easier..just basic tools needed. Now I am seeing things are alot more complex.

However I feel i do not fall into either of the catagories you have pegged me. I am a disablefd person .. while i used to ride my bike as a kid and teen (many years ago) all day and half the nite. I am living with the chronic lyme disease and chronic fatigue.. all that to say.. I do not have the luxury of energy to spend doing things that are not really essential for my living condition. .. is riding a bike criticial to my living condition? heck at this point I have no idea if / how much I can really ride a bike.

I know in my mind I love the idea of being able to really ride ... i dont know if my body can handle it ..time will tell. I had an old Marin mountain bike but I found a crack in the frame.. so i picked up a really really cheap used one.. the good thing.. it got me out of the city and into an area i used to go ride with my dog. the bad news is it has an issue..

we have a local bike coop that is non profit and even they were stumped. I wish I had time/ energy and reading ability to look though and learn everything i can .. but I dont have that opportunity.. the time i spend trying to fix bike ( well maybe i should have just bought a new one..- but if i can't ride it ..i dont want to spend so much) is time that i probably need to be doing other things to work on my health. like food ..figuring out how to get more vegetables how to make them tasty and easy get them into mybody. and also a huge one i really should be spending time figuring out how to organize my apartment and downsize so i can move .. soon.

I just lost a week from some very delayed reactions to the vaccine.. oddly it was also just after attempting the 1 x bike ride .

so is there a catagory for disabled but trying to keep living and needs help.

and I did try the google source.. and as i said i even tried the bike non profit self repair. . i guess my next option is to find a 24" wheel and just not worry about getting it apart to clean out the bearings..ya know? i just hate tossing stuff into the trash/ landfill or where ever it wont be used .

it might be easier finding a matching "google" search if i knew the name of the part that holds the 70 ( i hope i found them all after then fell out) bearings . I was able ot get the
""freewheel" off.. by twising clockwise the falcon ring in the middle . i hope i got all the bearings. .. but i still couldn't get the rest of the axle. out. i reckon it is a dead deal.

I am suprised i was able to type so much.. usually i am totally exhuasted by this time.. well by 3pm usually.. i had some energy drink earily as i had to pick up the tools i had laid out side trying to find something to use to get that thing apart.
see i start aproject even something as simple as digging through tools..and then i get exhausted.. my brain gets confused and unclear and i get stuck..but because the tools were outside.. i needed to make sure to bring them in..so i had to push through.

take good care and if you have any easy ..i mean super easy veggies and how to get them in on the regular basis.. if you want to share.. i would love it.. but not to worry.. becasue mabye i am "one of those people" i have no idea.
who i am anymore. even before covid.. i pretty much had become and isolated hermit due to the fatigue and immune issues caused by chronic lyme.. and riding bike again may just be a pipe dream. why are they called 'pipe dreams" ? anyway.

thanks and hope you have some fun!
You are all set. We frequently get a lot of people here who don't have your passion and just want to ask a question and leave and aren't looking to join in on the fun.

You can ride you just gotta believe in yourself and just take it one stroke at a time. It can be tough but you can make it. Just never give up.
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Old 04-20-21, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Don't know, I didn't read your long diatribe. So whether you fit any better than any other I don't know.

But there is a gallery here on BF you can upload pics to. Even as a newb and before your magical 10th post.

So what's your problem.
I dont read long posts or long anythings.. gosh..I just looked up the word diatribe.. It means "attack to a person" i certainly did not mean to do that..at all.
thank you for calling me out on it! i am trying to learn the "art of communication" and clearly i am still having many lessons. i am such a hermit.. so not alot of practice time.
thank you for teaching me a new word !
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Old 04-20-21, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
You are all set. We frequently get a lot of people here who don't have your passion and just want to ask a question and leave and aren't looking to join in on the fun.

You can ride you just gotta believe in yourself and just take it one stroke at a time. It can be tough but you can make it. Just never give up.
thank you Veganbikes.. I dont know how much I will be able to make it back.. and now i kind of feel like a "user" that isn't the kind of person i want to be. sorry. when i was healther I really spent alot of time helping folks.. strangers and friends when i could with different things.. now i feel selfish as i really need to focus on food and movement.

I apprecaite your encouragment truly! this lyme/immune stuff is strange. I have to say i spent 15 years believing i could get past it and that thinking would often get me in trouble. as i would feel good.. and then have a great go at it and end up sick and not able to do anything for weeks.

short story. Need to find a way to pace myself when i ride .. and build up gradually.. even i may have to start at 15mins at a time.. nice thing about bike...though i can coast some so that gives me a little rest.. and i certainly get to see more scenery than walking

thank you so much!
I
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Old 04-20-21, 09:33 PM
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UPDATE:
i found a community bike shop and they had the tool to take the hub the rest of hte way off. I had gotten the gear 7 set off. the guy at the shop said the freewheel was bad.. but he also said he had never seen the freewheel the way i had it , i had opened the falcon locknut and the bearings came out. and he had never seen a freewheel like that without the falcon part .. sorry i dont know the names.

so yay!!! tomorrow i will clean up the axel and the bearing housing, bearings. they even gave me a small little bit of bike grease.. just enough to do what i need.and I bought a cone wrench from them. super nice folks ! oh and i loved the shop.. wasn't fancy at all .. but very functional .
He did give me another used whole freewheel set. (since he said mine wasn't good anymore) I dont understand why it isn't good.. ? i know impossible to tell without pictures. sorry

for some reason i can't get the nut and the cone (washer? ) nut loosen from each other on the freewheel side.. gonna spray i guess with the pb blast and let it sit overnite.
come back to it tomorrow.
maybe i will be able to take it out .. for a little spin.. assuming i get all back together. next will be change out the handlebars maybe for a bit more upright.

i talk too much.
ride well and safe
good nite
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Old 04-20-21, 09:36 PM
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or maybe i will put quick release axels on.. probably can use what was on the old marin bike. i keep creating projects for myself..when i should focus on necessities. making life easier..but i like to have fun learning how things work and tinkering..
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Old 04-21-21, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by qkcam View Post
UPDATE:

for some reason i can't get the nut and the cone (washer? ) nut loosen from each other on the freewheel side.. gonna spray i guess with the pb blast and let it sit overnite.
come back to it tomorrow.
maybe i will be able to take it out .. for a little spin.. assuming i get all back together. next will be change out the handlebars maybe for a bit more upright.
I have a Falcon derailleur on the back of one of my 24" bikes, but the gear hub itself is Suntour.

If only one cone comes off the axle then that is good - unless you need to replace the cones. If you remove both cones then when you rebuild the axle not only must you adjust the cones, but also get the position of the cones right on the axle so you have enough thread on each end for the wheel nuts.

The gear hub should come off in one unit - the gears and the coaster/freewheel ratchet in one. If you take apart the freewheel part it is possible to rebuild it, but it is quite an advanced task as there are a lot of very small balls as well as the ratchet mechanism in there.

When you refit the gear hub to the wheel it is best to use the hub removal tool to keep the hub aligned with the very fine and very easily cross-thread aluminium threads on the wheel hub. Of course, before you put the gear hub on you will have refitted the axle: the axle will support the 'gear hub removal tool', and the tool will support your gear hub.

BTW, a pipe dream is from the time people sat on their asses, smoking their pipe, talking about all the things they were going to do one day...
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Old 04-21-21, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Geepig View Post
it is best to use the hub removal tool to keep the hub aligned with the very fine and very easily cross-thread aluminium threads on the wheel hub.
One trick that helps to start such threads is to turn the part you want to screw in anticlockwise till you hear or feel a small click, then you can gingerly try to screw clockwise in but do not force it. Sometimes it takes number of tries.

Also, once it catches the thread a little, stop and look from several sides if the part you are trying to screw in is horizontally aligned with the other one. Large diameter threads are finicky.

BTW the way this or any similar forum get new people on board is many time they look for advice and land here but find they can't post pictures and can't describe the problem in words. Well, sometimes they get the advice and leave never to be heard from again, but that is the risk that bike shops or forums have to live with.

I myself came here last fall when I bought a 'modern' bike and needed advice how to take apart BB (more exactly, how to remove pedal arms to begin with) and also had problem with posting pictures not having ten posts and was impatient to get advice from here. I am OK when working on older style bikes from last century but these finicky carbon frames and nuts and what not that I have only seen from afar on other people's bikes are a whole different league.
However everybody has access to a free, third party pic uploading sites.

Last edited by vane171; 04-21-21 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 04-21-21, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by qkcam View Post
I dont read long posts or long anythings.. gosh..I just looked up the word diatribe.. It means "attack to a person" i certainly did not mean to do that..at all.
thank you for calling me out on it! i am trying to learn the "art of communication" and clearly i am still having many lessons. i am such a hermit.. so not alot of practice time.
thank you for teaching me a new word !
Well as I said, I didn't read it. Maybe I read the first sentence or so of the really long post. Maybe it wasn't a diatribe, but I perceived it as going to be one. Not sure why. Maybe I woke up on the wrong side of the bed. <grin>

I'll give you credit for having things broken into paragraphs. It helps me when things are broken down into short concise paragraphs. Though if you searched for my replies, they sometimes ramble long with no breaks in writing or thought.

As for your issue, are you talking wheel bearings and axle. If so, why can't you just take the nut and cone off the other side and pull the axle out freewheel side? Or is this not a freewheel?

Or is the issue something else entirely?
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Old 04-21-21, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by vane171 View Post
One trick that helps to start such threads is to turn the part you want to screw in anticlockwise till you hear or feel a small click, then you can gingerly try to screw clockwise in but do not force it. Sometimes it takes number of tries.

Also, once it catches the thread a little, stop and look from several sides if the part you are trying to screw in is horizontally aligned with the other one. Large diameter threads are finicky.

BTW the way this or any similar forum get new people on board is many time they look for advice and land here but find they can't post pictures and can't describe the problem in words. Well, sometimes they get the advice and leave never to be heard from again, but that is the risk that bike shops or forums have to live with.

I myself came here last fall when I bought a 'modern' bike and needed advice how to take apart BB (more exactly, how to remove pedal arms to begin with) and also had problem with posting pictures not having ten posts and was impatient to get advice from here. I am OK when working on older style bikes from last century but these finicky carbon frames and nuts and what not that I have only seen from afar on other people's bikes are a whole different league.
However everybody has access to a free, third party pic uploading sites.
I love the idea of a carbon frame.. esp the older i get ..things seem heavier.. but the other bits and pieces.. why oh why ?? it reminds me of cars. I miss the good ole metal cars .. which took a heck of alot to lose a bumper.. now i see bumpers alongside the freeway! and really do we need all that electronics?.. I can usually park parallel a heck of alot better...on both sides than folks with those cameras they use. oh i sound like a crumudgen now!

thanks for your support
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Old 04-21-21, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Geepig View Post
I have a Falcon derailleur on the back of one of my 24" bikes, but the gear hub itself is Suntour.

If only one cone comes off the axle then that is good - unless you need to replace the cones. If you remove both cones then when you rebuild the axle not only must you adjust the cones, but also get the position of the cones right on the axle so you have enough thread on each end for the wheel nuts.

The gear hub should come off in one unit - the gears and the coaster/freewheel ratchet in one. If you take apart the freewheel part it is possible to rebuild it, but it is quite an advanced task as there are a lot of very small balls as well as the ratchet mechanism in there.

When you refit the gear hub to the wheel it is best to use the hub removal tool to keep the hub aligned with the very fine and very easily cross-thread aluminium threads on the wheel hub. Of course, before you put the gear hub on you will have refitted the axle: the axle will support the 'gear hub removal tool', and the tool will support your gear hub.

BTW, a pipe dream is from the time people sat on their asses, smoking their pipe, talking about all the things they were going to do one day...
thank you!! this is helpful. i have alot to say but can't find the right glasses to see what i am typing all that well.

I was able (thanks to PB blast get the cone nut and nut by the spacer apart. I ordered a tool .. I should have read msgs here before i put it back together. I didn't have a tool to put the hub back on.. and since i was able to get the other side of the axel apart I cleand those bearings ..and put it back .. i even measured the distance it was when i pulled it out with a ruler. (MMs I thought i put it back in the same place..but darn .. the axel isn't even on both sides. 1 side fits just into the frame and tightens, the other side has a little hang over.

anyway to adjust the axel without taking all apart? honestly i should take it apart when the removal tool comes so i can make sure it goes on even like you mentioned (THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!) I used the hub from the nice young man at the community bike shop., he gave it to me.

1. I still have the freewheel i took the falcon ring out of and I had collected all the bearings.. I think . I found a video on how to put back together.. the falcon is USA made. .i thought that was cool. However darn I wish i could show pix. one section of the falcon hub has some pitting.. i am not sure from what though.. it appears to be on the section (you know how 2 layers of ball bearings, right? ) or 2 differnet sections. the pitting appears to be behind on the opposite side of the lower level of bearings. it isn't wear the bearings go.

it would give me great satisfaction to be able to put it back together and use it! how fun would that be!! but i have a working solution in case not sometimes it is hard for me to let these things go and i can get a bit obcessive.. darn. esp with limited energy /time.. maybe i just use what works and let go of the rest.. but i want to fix it.. it's fun!! and i have other things to do.. ? can anyone relate?

2. alas I did notice some strange wear on the cone I took out this am.. darn.. although when i put all back together i made sure to take the play out and the axel spins much much better than it had.

Pipedream.. good to know!! thank you. they must have been pisces!! i Have a ton of "dreams" or used too.. some i accomplished.. but since health changed.. i mostly let it all go stopped having dreams that have anything to do with the reliablity of my body. maybe the reason i like taking things apart and "fixing" them is becasue i can't figure out how to fix this body after 20 years.

I wonder if eating more veggies will help? if i didnt eat them for 50 years can i make up for a 50 yr deficit?
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Old 04-21-21, 06:53 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Well as I said, I didn't read it. Maybe I read the first sentence or so of the really long post. Maybe it wasn't a diatribe, but I perceived it as going to be one. Not sure why. Maybe I woke up on the wrong side of the bed. <grin>

I'll give you credit for having things broken into paragraphs. It helps me when things are broken down into short concise paragraphs. Though if you searched for my replies, they sometimes ramble long with no breaks in writing or thought.

As for your issue, are you talking wheel bearings and axle. If so, why can't you just take the nut and cone off the other side and pull the axle out freewheel side? Or is this not a freewheel?

Or is the issue something else entirely?
i dont know if i was writing a diatribe or not.. you have me wondering.
and thank you for the good question. when i was at the volunteer bike shop on sunday they even had the (is it hub or freewheel ) tool? 3 people even with a breaker bar could not get the freewheel lose.. we were able to get one side cone out and cleaned and greased .. however the axel would just spin , we couldn't get anythnig loose on the other side.

thank goodness for that shop casue at least i got to see what one side was supposed to look like! we tried a long time and different tools.

I brought it home and pb blasted it.. I heard the guy at the community bike shop say.. when i asked about the "falcon" lock nut.. i said.. "ah these two indents must be helpful to loosen this up?" he said it wasnt' supposed to come apart..

I have a very curious mind.. so i decided to take that falcon lock nut off if i could. once i got that off i was able to get the freewheel off.. but still believe it or not could not get the dang cone and spacer nut loose.. I pb blasted again last nite.. and today they came apart!!! yay!

that is where i saw some slight wear... maybe a tad bit of pitting on that cone. I guess i should replace it... since i am gonna need to take it apart to do a better job of centering the axle. I wonder how expensve a new cone or good used cone from community bike shop would be compared to online?

I was really hoping to be able to go out for a ride tomorrow.. but it looks like I will need to finish it up the right way before I get to go play

thank you for your support
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Old 04-21-21, 07:05 PM
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am trying to put photos in gallery. have em uploaded but no idea how if they show or not.. ???

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Old 04-21-21, 07:07 PM
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oh somehow.. ok that is inside the FALCON those pits are on the opposite side from the bearings.. and just above where it screws onto hub. what would cause those? and is it use able?
thank you.
here is one of the cones.. wondering if it needs replaced?
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Old 04-21-21, 07:10 PM
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here are 2 freewheels.. (keep wanting to call them fly wheels!) one is what came on the old bike falcon (us made) and the free one nice young man at bike shop gave me - would love the satisfaction of putting the falcon back together and using it.. if it is useable ?
yippy skippy!! i can post pics!!
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Old 04-21-21, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by qkcam View Post
...some slight wear...
Glad you got the pics posted.

Takes allot of neglect to get wear like this. I would think... REPLACE.
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