Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

help with rear derailleur shifting

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

help with rear derailleur shifting

Old 04-28-21, 11:28 PM
  #1  
Symox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 381

Bikes: '07 Specialized Roubaix Comp Triple, '12 Gravity Fixie, '21 Liv Rove 4, '06? Giant EB Spirit

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked 108 Times in 64 Posts
help with rear derailleur shifting

Got a weird one for y'all

I have a bike with a 10 speed 105 brake shifter (ST-5600) with a 105 rear derailleur ( RD-5600 GS long cage - its a triple front derailleur bike) with a Dura Ace 10 speed 11-28 cassette.
Shifting is flawless except going from 2nd to 3rd gear (maybe 3rd to 4th, can't remember)- but its ok going the other direction. I've tried adjusting everything including 11 to 10 speed shim widths, B limit, stroke adjustment as well as cable adjustment and I just cannot get it perfect.

With a 105 10 speed cassette it works fine. The Dura Ace cassette behaves the same on a different wheel.

My guess is the shift increments are ever so slightly different between the DuraAce cassette and 105 shifter. However since it is ok in the other direction I wonder if there is friction in the system. I have new Jagwire Pro cables so I doubt that's the issue.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks
Symox is offline  
Old 04-29-21, 04:40 AM
  #2  
Amt0571
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 902

Bikes: Canyon Grand Canyon AL SL 8.0, Btwin Ultra 520 AF GF, Dahon Mu P27, Triban Road 7, Benotto 850

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 177 Times in 119 Posts
Originally Posted by Symox View Post
Got a weird one for y'all

I have a bike with a 10 speed 105 brake shifter (ST-5600) with a 105 rear derailleur ( RD-5600 GS long cage - its a triple front derailleur bike) with a Dura Ace 10 speed 11-28 cassette.
Shifting is flawless except going from 2nd to 3rd gear (maybe 3rd to 4th, can't remember)- but its ok going the other direction. I've tried adjusting everything including 11 to 10 speed shim widths, B limit, stroke adjustment as well as cable adjustment and I just cannot get it perfect.

With a 105 10 speed cassette it works fine. The Dura Ace cassette behaves the same on a different wheel.

My guess is the shift increments are ever so slightly different between the DuraAce cassette and 105 shifter. However since it is ok in the other direction I wonder if there is friction in the system. I have new Jagwire Pro cables so I doubt that's the issue.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks
Check derailleur hanger alignment. I had similar issues on a couple of bikes and it always was caused by a misaligned rear derailleur.

Last time it happened with my mountain bike that hesitated to downshift from the 3rd cog to the 4th and the chain rubbed the 2nd cog while on the 3rd. All other gears worked well.
Amt0571 is offline  
Likes For Amt0571:
Old 04-29-21, 01:40 PM
  #3  
Symox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 381

Bikes: '07 Specialized Roubaix Comp Triple, '12 Gravity Fixie, '21 Liv Rove 4, '06? Giant EB Spirit

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked 108 Times in 64 Posts
Yup, had a slight bend when I removed the hanger and compared to a straight edge. I couldn't bend it back perfect without the right tool so I ordered a new one

Thanks!
Symox is offline  
Old 04-29-21, 01:41 PM
  #4  
dsbrantjr
Senior Member
 
dsbrantjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 8,150

Bikes: '93 Trek 750, '92 Schwinn Crisscross, '93 Mongoose Alta

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1369 Post(s)
Liked 905 Times in 630 Posts
Originally Posted by Symox View Post
... I have new Jagwire Pro cables so I doubt that's the issue.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks
Make certain that the ends of the shift housing are properly prepared with no protruding wires and firmly seated in their sockets, and equipped with correct ferrules where required. Make certain that the housings exit the ferrules/sockets squarely so that the shift cables do not rub against them. If your shift cables run under the bar tape ensure that the housing has not dislodged slightly out of the shifter socket, which can happen while wrapping tape.
dsbrantjr is offline  
Old 04-29-21, 05:43 PM
  #5  
Barry2 
LRųP=HR
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,026

Bikes: 79 Holdsworth Special, 93 C-dale MT3000 Tandem, 96 C-dale F700CAD3, 2018 Cervelo R3, JustGo Runt, Ridley Oval, Kickr Bike 8-)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 388 Post(s)
Liked 392 Times in 247 Posts
Hanger

So I'm told... even a new hanger may need to be aligned.
But a spare is never a bad idea.

Barry
Barry2 is offline  
Old 04-29-21, 08:59 PM
  #6  
cxwrench
Senior Member
 
cxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 2,015

Bikes: lots

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 928 Post(s)
Liked 1,202 Times in 679 Posts
You should always check a new hanger. They're generally always perfect but where they attach to the frame might not be. I vericy alignment on every new hanger I install.
cxwrench is offline  
Likes For cxwrench:
Old 05-01-21, 07:58 PM
  #7  
oldbobcat
Senior Member
 
oldbobcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 3,447

Bikes: '79 Gios, '80 Masi, '06 Felt, early '60s Frejus

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 161 Post(s)
Liked 119 Times in 88 Posts
There are about 20 years of discussions on this board regarding derailleur shifting problems. Your problems are not unique. Instead of starting a new discussion, why not use the Search function at the top of the page to see what's already been said about them?
oldbobcat is offline  
Old 05-01-21, 08:02 PM
  #8  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 3,820

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1136 Post(s)
Liked 968 Times in 638 Posts
You forgot to tell him to get off your lawn.

John
70sSanO is offline  
Likes For 70sSanO:
Old 05-01-21, 08:10 PM
  #9  
Symox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 381

Bikes: '07 Specialized Roubaix Comp Triple, '12 Gravity Fixie, '21 Liv Rove 4, '06? Giant EB Spirit

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked 108 Times in 64 Posts
Got a new hanger and checked with the park tool. It was dead nuts on.

I still canít seem to get both the 3rd to 4th shift to work consistently without the 10th to 9th slipping. itís either one or the other. Ugh.

might have to have a shop look at it or just live with it.
Symox is offline  
Old 05-01-21, 08:24 PM
  #10  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 3,820

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1136 Post(s)
Liked 968 Times in 638 Posts
When I first read this it didn’t sound like a hanger problem if it only happens with one 10 speed cassette and not the other. Cassette spacing is the same for Shimano 10 speed cassettes.

It could be a bad cassette. It is very expensive and wouldn’t expect it. Is the 10 speed Dura Ace new?

John

Last edited by 70sSanO; 05-01-21 at 10:57 PM.
70sSanO is offline  
Old 05-02-21, 01:22 AM
  #11  
Symox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 381

Bikes: '07 Specialized Roubaix Comp Triple, '12 Gravity Fixie, '21 Liv Rove 4, '06? Giant EB Spirit

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked 108 Times in 64 Posts
Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
When I first read this it didnít sound like a hanger problem if it only happens with one 10 speed cassette and not the other. Cassette spacing is the same for Shimano 10 speed cassettes.

It could be a bad cassette. It is very expensive and wouldnít expect it. Is the 10 speed Dura Ace new?

John
no I got it on Craigslist. Great deal but I guess I know why
Symox is offline  
Old 05-02-21, 06:01 AM
  #12  
ARider2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 494
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked 82 Times in 61 Posts
Do you think you got a fake knockoff part from Craigslist rather than a genuine Shimano part?
ARider2 is offline  
Old 05-02-21, 07:53 AM
  #13  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 3,820

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1136 Post(s)
Liked 968 Times in 638 Posts
With an unknown cassette, the next question is your current chain. It becomes a bit of a rabbit hole trying to find the exact cause.

Position 3 to 4 is 13t-14t, not sure if you can get to them to swap out a cog or two. Also how nice they will play if you did find them. And if it is wear, how much longer will the rest of the cogs run smoothly.

John
70sSanO is offline  
Old 05-02-21, 08:26 AM
  #14  
Symox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 381

Bikes: '07 Specialized Roubaix Comp Triple, '12 Gravity Fixie, '21 Liv Rove 4, '06? Giant EB Spirit

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked 108 Times in 64 Posts
Originally Posted by ARider2 View Post
Do you think you got a fake knockoff part from Craigslist rather than a genuine Shimano part?
I doubt it - someone would have to go through a lot of trouble to match the build quality
Symox is offline  
Old 05-02-21, 06:26 PM
  #15  
Symox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 381

Bikes: '07 Specialized Roubaix Comp Triple, '12 Gravity Fixie, '21 Liv Rove 4, '06? Giant EB Spirit

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked 108 Times in 64 Posts
Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
When I first read this it didn’t sound like a hanger problem if it only happens with one 10 speed cassette and not the other. Cassette spacing is the same for Shimano 10 speed cassettes.

It could be a bad cassette. It is very expensive and wouldn’t expect it. Is the 10 speed Dura Ace new?

John
One thing I noticed is the marking on the two spacers is "11s" Can anyone with a Dura Ace 10 speed cassette verify what the marking is?

I tried putting the 105 10 speed spacers and didn't have any more luck.

The symptom by the way is I can get all shifts to go perfect except going from 3rd to 4th (13 tooth to 15 tooth). A wee bit more pressure on the shifter and it works fine.

Last edited by Symox; 05-02-21 at 06:39 PM.
Symox is offline  
Old 05-02-21, 07:21 PM
  #16  
Bigbus
Very Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Always on the Run
Posts: 1,211

Bikes: Giant Quasar & Fuji Roubaix

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 412 Post(s)
Liked 339 Times in 241 Posts
Don't quote me, but 11s usually means 11speed in most instances.
Bigbus is offline  
Old 05-02-21, 07:24 PM
  #17  
Symox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 381

Bikes: '07 Specialized Roubaix Comp Triple, '12 Gravity Fixie, '21 Liv Rove 4, '06? Giant EB Spirit

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked 108 Times in 64 Posts
I think it is much better now. I tried again putting the 105 10s spacers I had but this time without and additional shim between freewheel and cassette making sure when I tightened the lockring the fit was good. It works much better now.

I think a combination of the derailleur hanger and the wrong speed spacers may have been the issue.
Symox is offline  
Likes For Symox:
Old 05-02-21, 07:31 PM
  #18  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 3,993
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3833 Post(s)
Liked 5,065 Times in 2,239 Posts
Just fyi: I would never buy a second-hand cassette. You will never know how many miles it has been ridden, nor whether it was cleaned occasionally, etc.
Koyote is offline  
Old 05-02-21, 08:09 PM
  #19  
Symox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 381

Bikes: '07 Specialized Roubaix Comp Triple, '12 Gravity Fixie, '21 Liv Rove 4, '06? Giant EB Spirit

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked 108 Times in 64 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Just fyi: I would never buy a second-hand cassette. You will never know how many miles it has been ridden, nor whether it was cleaned occasionally, etc.
understood but Iíve had good luck with cassettes from people upgrading to 11sp systems

I probably never would have afforded a Dura Ace cassette if it werenít for Craigslist and it definitely performs better than the 105 I had

ymmv
Symox is offline  
Old 05-02-21, 08:20 PM
  #20  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 3,993
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3833 Post(s)
Liked 5,065 Times in 2,239 Posts
Originally Posted by Symox View Post
understood but Iíve had good luck with cassettes from people upgrading to 11sp systems

I probably never would have afforded a Dura Ace cassette if it werenít for Craigslist and it definitely performs better than the 105 I had

ymmv
I've used D/A, Ultegra, and 105 cassettes and found they perform the same. Only difference is weight. And a new cassette always performs better than one that is old and worn.
Koyote is offline  
Old 05-02-21, 08:47 PM
  #21  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 3,820

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1136 Post(s)
Liked 968 Times in 638 Posts
Originally Posted by Symox View Post
I think it is much better now. I tried again putting the 105 10s spacers I had but this time without and additional shim between freewheel and cassette making sure when I tightened the lockring the fit was good. It works much better now.

I think a combination of the derailleur hanger and the wrong speed spacers may have been the issue.
Good for you. Never thought of 10 speed cassette with 11 speed spacers, but that would mess up the shifting. Glad it worked out.

John
70sSanO is offline  
Old 05-05-21, 02:42 PM
  #22  
Symox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 381

Bikes: '07 Specialized Roubaix Comp Triple, '12 Gravity Fixie, '21 Liv Rove 4, '06? Giant EB Spirit

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked 108 Times in 64 Posts
So I had used a 10speed cog spacer to convert the 11speed freewheel to 10speed as the supplied spacer wasn't enough for the Dura Ace for some reason. Well, it was made of plastic and it cracked. I swapped with the "11s" metal spacers that were inadvertently sent to me with the cassette. Shifting is the best its ever been now
Symox is offline  
Old 05-05-21, 02:51 PM
  #23  
Symox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 381

Bikes: '07 Specialized Roubaix Comp Triple, '12 Gravity Fixie, '21 Liv Rove 4, '06? Giant EB Spirit

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked 108 Times in 64 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
I've used D/A, Ultegra, and 105 cassettes and found they perform the same. Only difference is weight. And a new cassette always performs better than one that is old and worn.
I've found the DA cassette shifted faster and "crisper" than the 105. 105 had a delay and kind of "crunched" into gear. DA seems to have more of an immediate "ker plunk"
Symox is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.