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Is 8/9/10 speed road hub compatible with 11 speed cassette?

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Is 8/9/10 speed road hub compatible with 11 speed cassette?

Old 05-02-21, 02:02 PM
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rivrgazr
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Is 8/9/10 speed road hub compatible with 11 speed cassette?

I'm a roadie, doing a new build. I would use a 10 speed Shimano cassette, (already have the left side brifter) but the 105 ST 5700 right lever is discontinued, and am afraid will be totally unobtainable before long, so considering going to 11 speed rear, since the ST 7000 11 speed right lever is current, and easily obtainable. I already have several sets of wheels with 8/9/10 speed road hubs. Question is, will the 11 speed road cassette fit on my existing hubs? Also, will the Shimano RD 5701 10 speed rear derailleur that I already have, give enough travel to accommodate the the 11 speed cassette? I'll be using no larger than 28T large cog in the rear, probably more like 25 or 26. And, will the 11 speed chain be comfortable on Shimano 10 speed chainrings?
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Old 05-02-21, 02:26 PM
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As far as I know, the 11 speed will not work on a 8/9/10 hub. The 5700 lever is not compatible with the 7000 derailleur because the cable pull length is different, and I am not sure, but the 7000 will not work properly with the 5700 calipers for the same reason. The 11 speed chain would probably work fine on the 10 speed rings. Many people use 10 speed chains on 9 speed cranksets and cassettes, 9 on 8 and so on. The reverse, 10 speed chain on 11 speed will probably not work. The way to find out for sure on the chains is to try it.

I checked on Ebay and 5700, 5600, and 4600 STI levers are available but are very costly. 2 years ago I paid, with shipping, $76 for a set of 4600, last year I purchase another set for $99, both brand new from Taiwan. Now the cheapest listed is 153.55 plus 42.30 shipping from Taiwan. They are as high as 344.00 plus 20 for shipping. Yikes! I did not even bother comparing other 10 speed STI's.

I wish you good luck with the project.
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Old 05-02-21, 02:34 PM
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Yes, I assumed that I'd use the 7000 right lever with the 11 speed cassette, but if the cassette won't go on the 8/9/10 hub that kinda finishes the idea. I hadn't thought of compatibility with the calipers at all, so thanks much for pointing that out.
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Old 05-02-21, 11:34 PM
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The 11sp Shimano cassettes CS-HG700 and CS-HG800 will fit on a 8/9/10sp freehub.
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Old 05-02-21, 11:44 PM
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1. The RD5701 will not work with the 11 speed STI shifter because the 11 speed groupsets have different pull ratios.
2. As Katsup pointed out, the larger 34T 11 speed cassettes will go on 8-10 hubs. The smaller 25T or 28T type Shimano 11 speed cassettes will not go on a 8-10 speed body. There are ways around this- namely machining the backside of the 11 speed cassette to reduce the stack height.
3. The path of least resistance for you, is to get Microshift R10 shifters. Replaces your existing Shimano STI shifters. No need to change anything else.
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Old 05-03-21, 08:17 AM
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I'd go with getting the 11sp shifters and new 11sp r. derailleur and selling your 5700 derailleur and left shifter. Used parts are going for a premium now and would cut your losses.
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Old 05-04-21, 07:43 PM
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Thanks, Crankycrank, this was actually the solution I had in mind; I knew the 10 speed 5700 shifter wouldn't mix with the 11 speed cassette. Some people misunderstood me there. It does leave the problem of potential mismatch between the levers' pull ratio and brake calipers, but I have a bike now with older Tiagra 9 speed levers with even older Sora calipers, where I never thought of mismatch in pull ratio, but, braking seems just fine!! Even if it was a problem, this will be a new build, so getting the right calipers isn't really an issue. However, it seems there's some disagreement among respondents on whether or not the 11 speed cassette will go on the 8/9/10 hub. One reply said that machining off the back of the 11 cassette to reduce some width will make it work. This suggests to me that there interference between the back of the cassette and the spokes. Another commented that the machining is not necessary if the cassette has larger inner cogs. Having no first hand knowledge of the matter, these comments together make sense to me, I get the reasoning, just not sure I want to go that crazy to make things work. I really wouldn't want to have to take each cassette to a machine shop to put it in a milling machine and shave off a few thousandths, but I do have a 6 X 48" belt sander that I've done some crude machining with quite successfully, so I wonder about that. Thanks to everyone for the input on this.

Last edited by rivrgazr; 05-04-21 at 07:51 PM. Reason: Original reply did not reference the person I was replying to
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Old 05-04-21, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rivrgazr View Post
However, it seems there's some disagreement among respondents on whether or not the 11 speed cassette will go on the 8/9/10 hub. One reply said that machining off the back of the 11 cassette to reduce some width will make it work. This suggests to me that there interference between the back of the cassette and the spokes. Another commented that the machining is not necessary if the cassette has larger inner cogs. Having no first hand knowledge of the matter, these comments together make sense to me, I really wouldn't want to have to take each cassette to a machine shop to put it in a milling machine and shave off a few thousandths, but I do have a 6 X 48" belt sander that I've done some crude machining with quite successfully, so I wonder about that.
Some cassettes have a recessed last cog as the larger cogs can hang inboard further and not hit the spokes. Rather than machining each cassette you can just machine the freehub body.
I don't know all the details about which cassettes will work on a 10sp hub but do a search for YouTube videos about how to machine down the freehub body if you want to try that.
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Old 05-05-21, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by katsup View Post
The 11sp Shimano cassettes CS-HG700 and CS-HG800 will fit on a 8/9/10sp freehub.
That's in 11-34t only. Evidently the size of the cog #1 allows it to hang over the hub flange and/or spoke heads and still keep the rear derailleur out of the spokes.
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Old 05-06-21, 06:53 AM
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What people are saying to you is that not all 11 speed cassettes are made for the same freehub spline lengths. Usually 11 speed cassettes are either one of 2 lengths, 1) for 11 speed spline length which are usually 32t or smaller and usually called road 11 speed cassette, or 2) 10 speed spline length which are usually 36t or larger and usually called MTB 11 speed cassette. The difference is that the innermost cog is offset further inward by around 1.8mm in relation to the spline on type 2 so that it will fit on a shorter 10 speed freehub spline. You need to check the manufacturer's information about their cassettes to find out which type they are. It's not always clear so you need to do some research yourself.

So if your freehub is only for 10 speed cassette splines, then you either have to get a MTB 11 speed cassette or else take a road 11 speed cassette and mill 1.8mm off the splines of the cassette or off the freehub itself. But you have to make sure that you still have enough clearance to the spokes.

The Shimano 11-34T 11 speed CS-HG700 and HG800 are marketed for road use, but follow the type 2 MTB short spline design to allow you to mount it on 10 speed splines.
However, i don't like the cog combination of those. I would prefer to mix and match my own cogs, which is possible with Miche cassettes since their cogs are loose instead of mounted on spiders, but Miche needs 11 speed splines.
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Old 05-06-21, 07:09 AM
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As this is the opposite direction from going with a 11 speed designed hub & using a 8/9 speed cassette, you'd typically need a shim for that to work well. Going the direction you are taking [OP] you'll need to figure out if you'd need to remove material or buy a proper fitting cassette.
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Old 05-08-21, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by rivrgazr View Post
Thanks, Crankycrank, this was actually the solution I had in mind; I knew the 10 speed 5700 shifter wouldn't mix with the 11 speed cassette. Some people misunderstood me there. It does leave the problem of potential mismatch between the levers' pull ratio and brake calipers, but I have a bike now with older Tiagra 9 speed levers with even older Sora calipers, where I never thought of mismatch in pull ratio, but, braking seems just fine!! Even if it was a problem, this will be a new build, so getting the right calipers isn't really an issue. However, it seems there's some disagreement among respondents on whether or not the 11 speed cassette will go on the 8/9/10 hub. One reply said that machining off the back of the 11 cassette to reduce some width will make it work. This suggests to me that there interference between the back of the cassette and the spokes. Another commented that the machining is not necessary if the cassette has larger inner cogs. Having no first hand knowledge of the matter, these comments together make sense to me, I get the reasoning, just not sure I want to go that crazy to make things work. I really wouldn't want to have to take each cassette to a machine shop to put it in a milling machine and shave off a few thousandths, but I do have a 6 X 48" belt sander that I've done some crude machining with quite successfully, so I wonder about that. Thanks to everyone for the input on this.
rivrgazr , the brake pull mis-match isn't a huge deal between the different road groupsets. It's there, but not nearly as big a difference as between linear pull (ie. v-brake) levers and short pull in general - they just use a slightly different amount of pull each.

The biggest issue is that the SHIFTER cable pull is different - the 5700 / 5701 rear derailleur is a different cable pull than the 7000. You would be able to use a Tiagra 4700 rear derailleur or anything Shimano 11sp road. In fact, 4700 derailleur and shifter to stay 10sp would be a lower-pain route for you.

As everyone has said regarding the cassette & hub - either get a 34T or bigger for cassette and you'll be fine with the 10sp hub, or just get an 11sp hubset (might be able to replace just your freehub, depending on what hubs you have).
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