Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Hard mounting tires for what its worth

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Hard mounting tires for what its worth

Old 05-17-21, 09:46 AM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NW Peloponnese, Greece
Posts: 531
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times in 22 Posts
Hard mounting tires for what its worth

Shimano RS700 wheels with Continental 5000 TL 700X25.
Wheetset and tires were new.
I mounted one tire on the rear wheel with a struggle, but in one effort.
I tried mounting the other tire on the front wheel, but after struggling hard, wearing light work gloves to increase the grip, I gave up after struggling for 15 min and with bruises on my palms.
Tire lip in the rim well, and pulling all the slack as much as possible.
I decided to leave the half mounted tire in the sun for about 3 hrs (26 Deg C).
Then I tried to remount the tire which I did successfully with a struggle, but one hard try. There was definitely a difference.
I suspect there was a slight difference in tire diameter.
Anyone use the EZ-Clincher Pocket Tire Tool
yannisg is offline  
Old 05-17-21, 09:54 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,341

Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked 324 Times in 225 Posts
Originally Posted by yannisg
Shimano RS700 wheels with Continental 5000 TL 700X25.
Wheetset and tires were new.
I mounted one tire on the rear wheel with a struggle, but in one effort.
I tried mounting the other tire on the front wheel, but after struggling hard, wearing light work gloves to increase the grip, I gave up after struggling for 15 min and with bruises on my palms.
Tire lip in the rim well, and pulling all the slack as much as possible.
I decided to leave the half mounted tire in the sun for about 3 hrs (26 Deg C).
Then I tried to remount the tire which I did successfully with a struggle, but one hard try. There was definitely a difference.
I suspect there was a slight difference in tire diameter.
Anyone use the EZ-Clincher Pocket Tire Tool
1. Use two wraps of 1 mil Kapton (5/8" or 16mm for traditional rims, 3/4" or 19mm for wide) totaling 0.005" thick versus .010" for thin rim tapes and .020" for Velox.
2. Start the second bead across from the valve stem instead of starting there.

Together those two things make the difference between cussing at tools and comfortable hand mounting.
Drew Eckhardt is offline  
Old 05-17-21, 10:18 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NW Peloponnese, Greece
Posts: 531
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt
1. Use two wraps of 1 mil Kapton (5/8" or 16mm for traditional rims, 3/4" or 19mm for wide) totaling 0.005" thick versus .010" for thin rim tapes and .020" for Velox.
2. Start the second bead across from the valve stem instead of starting there.

Together those two things make the difference between cussing at tools and comfortable hand mounting.
I used the rim tape that came with the new wheels. So, you are suggesting I should have replaced the rim tape?
Second bead across from valve. Yes
I was surprised regarding the difference of mounting same tires on same rims.
yannisg is offline  
Old 05-17-21, 10:21 AM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,341

Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked 324 Times in 225 Posts
Originally Posted by yannisg
I used the rim tape that came with the new wheels. So, you are suggesting I should have replaced the rim tape?
Yes. It makes a huge difference in how much slack you have.
Drew Eckhardt is offline  
Old 05-17-21, 01:07 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,655
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 576 Post(s)
Liked 171 Times in 138 Posts
Amazon.com : Kool Stop Bicycle Bike TIRE Bead Jack Lever Tool New : Sports & Outdoors
davidad is offline  
Likes For davidad:
Old 05-18-21, 09:24 AM
  #6  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Foothills of West Central Maine
Posts: 410

Bikes: 2007 Motobecane Fantom Cross Expert, 2020 Motobecane Omni Strada Pro Disc (700c gravel bike), 2021 Motobecane Elite Adventure with Bafang 500W rear hub drive

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 143 Times in 94 Posts
Soapy water on bead of tire and rim can be a hand-saver. Careful with tire jack; you can bend your rim if you apply a lot of force.
Chuckles1 is offline  
Old 05-18-21, 10:00 AM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,516

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1840 Post(s)
Liked 2,004 Times in 1,227 Posts
Originally Posted by Chuckles1
Soapy water on bead of tire and rim can be a hand-saver. Careful with tire jack; you can bend your rim if you apply a lot of force.
This is interesting. On tough tires Iíve used the old VAR lever and now the tire Jack. Iíve never heard of a rim bending; not that it canít happen.

The VAR lever would bend to where I thought the lever was going to break, but it never did.

John
70sSanO is offline  
Old 05-18-21, 11:26 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked 11 Times in 10 Posts
i prefer to have a wide AND thick enough rim tape. one way i know the rim tape is not too thin is having just a bit less spoke tension after mounting the tire, inflating and then releasing air pressure (tire fully mounted on the rim).

one of the reasons why tires are hard to mount on the rim would be low average spoke tension. that's because there is rim compression (circumferential) due to spoke tension. sloppy built wheels will have too high tension variance and also low average spoke tension. very few people care to study the whole science - not art. it's hard to have someone explaining it to you and if you don't understand the science behind wheel building chances are that each time one person learns from another... either some things will be missing in the knowledge passed on or some error/superstition in that knowledge will be passed on.

other reason of tires being hard to mount... is not knowing the proper technique. or the rim not having a deep enough channel (shape). but again, this problem can be addressed with the proper technique.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/PMulr.png

Last edited by adipe; 05-18-21 at 11:32 AM.
adipe is offline  
Old 05-18-21, 01:32 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NW Peloponnese, Greece
Posts: 531
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by adipe
i prefer to have a wide AND thick enough rim tape. one way i know the rim tape is not too thin is having just a bit less spoke tension after mounting the tire, inflating and then releasing air pressure (tire fully mounted on the rim).

one of the reasons why tires are hard to mount on the rim would be low average spoke tension. that's because there is rim compression (circumferential) due to spoke tension. sloppy built wheels will have too high tension variance and also low average spoke tension. very few people care to study the whole science - not art. it's hard to have someone explaining it to you and if you don't understand the science behind wheel building chances are that each time one person learns from another... either some things will be missing in the knowledge passed on or some error/superstition in that knowledge will be passed on.

other reason of tires being hard to mount... is not knowing the proper technique. or the rim not having a deep enough channel (shape). but again, this problem can be addressed with the proper technique.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/PMulr.png
Don't disagree with yr comments on spoke tension and variance. However, these were new wheels. I always record the spoke tension and trueness of my new wheels.
However, my post was more about the difference I encountered regarding mounting similar tires on similar rims, and the effect of sun heat.
yannisg is offline  
Old 05-18-21, 03:55 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,959

Bikes: Habanero Titanium Team Nuevo

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 394 Post(s)
Liked 180 Times in 118 Posts
Originally Posted by yannisg
Shimano RS700 wheels with Continental 5000 TL 700X25.
Wheetset and tires were new.
I mounted one tire on the rear wheel with a struggle, but in one effort.
I tried mounting the other tire on the front wheel, but after struggling hard, wearing light work gloves to increase the grip, I gave up after struggling for 15 min and with bruises on my palms.
Tire lip in the rim well, and pulling all the slack as much as possible.
I decided to leave the half mounted tire in the sun for about 3 hrs (26 Deg C).
Then I tried to remount the tire which I did successfully with a struggle, but one hard try. There was definitely a difference.
I suspect there was a slight difference in tire diameter.
Anyone use the EZ-Clincher Pocket Tire Tool
I use tubes so a tire if I could not mount very easy would not be an option. I do use Conti 5000's but not the tubeless version. Sometimes a tire is hard are first to get on but once pumped up and then remounted it gets easier. I assume since tubeless you are not planning on having to mount tire on the side of the road, but not sure. One option is to pump tire up to well over the maximum to say 140 psi and then take it off and remount again. If you do this about 3 times the tire will be much easier by far. They stretch and I have had tires I needed a level new to mount but later easy with the hand. I must admit I have rarely ever come across a tire I could not mount by hand.
deacon mark is offline  
Old 05-22-21, 01:16 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,655
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 576 Post(s)
Liked 171 Times in 138 Posts
Originally Posted by Chuckles1
Soapy water on bead of tire and rim can be a hand-saver. Careful with tire jack; you can bend your rim if you apply a lot of force.
The jack pushes down on the rim and won't bend it. The other way is on this video. I wouldn't like to do it in the rain.
I tried a set of these and they lasted a long time, but were so hard to mount that I haven't bought another.
davidad is offline  
Old 05-22-21, 09:57 AM
  #12  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Foothills of West Central Maine
Posts: 410

Bikes: 2007 Motobecane Fantom Cross Expert, 2020 Motobecane Omni Strada Pro Disc (700c gravel bike), 2021 Motobecane Elite Adventure with Bafang 500W rear hub drive

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 143 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by davidad
The jack pushes down on the rim and won't bend it.
First and only time I used a tire jack my rim bent. It was pretty well worn out from braking, wear dimples were long gone, so that was likely a factor.
Chuckles1 is offline  
Old 05-22-21, 12:16 PM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,655
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 576 Post(s)
Liked 171 Times in 138 Posts
Originally Posted by Chuckles1
First and only time I used a tire jack my rim bent. It was pretty well worn out from braking, wear dimples were long gone, so that was likely a factor.
I rarely need it for my usual tires ( panaracer Parcelas kevlar bead), but it is handy as my old hands don't have the strength they once did.
Anecdotally I haven't bent a rim with mine. I carry a VAR on the bike.
davidad is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.