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6 vs 7 speed why people upgrade?

Old 05-24-21, 09:10 PM
  #26  
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I think evaluating just how many combinations of gears you ride in is the real crux. I have my compact crank up front. I've got five to seven gears on my freewheels (threaded), but of those 5 to 7 gears I really only use about three of them. So what of those other gears? Well it's nice to know they are there if I need them.

I have noticed that riders with indexed shifters use allot more gear combinations than I do. Maybe it's also the training and familiarity. It appears that older riders tend to do a little more mashing before switching gears. And maybe that is just laziness...
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Old 05-24-21, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
I get it new technology can be scary sometimes but I can assure you 9, 10, 11 and 12 speed are quite nice and have improved things over the years it is not just marketing it is people actually advancing things forward. You wouldn't be able to post on a forum on a website without the advancement forward with technology and your computer is marketing hype along with the internet you use but in the end it really isn't.
To me its more of a marketing, if you bike is a goal then one put new expensive stuff, if its just a means of transportation commuting one care less about all the fancy things.

Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
I will say though when my Dura Ace 7400 works it works quite well and it is 6 speed but at the time was the pinnacle of technology now is quite old and showing it's age, tiny freewheels and massive front chainrings are just not what I call useful.
Does it affect gear ration in any way if you have big cog in the front and small in the rear or other way around, i doubt. but of course there's some marketing explanation that this setup is better in some way etc...


Again i like riding 1 speed so i be fine with either 6 or 7 speeds.

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Old 05-25-21, 12:17 AM
  #28  
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lol...dude, you've got a bone to pick or something with your "question". no one's trying to convince you to do anything other than what you want with your gears

fyi, any change you make to the size of the chainrings and/or freewheel cogs absolutely changes the gear ratio. that's not marketing. that's physics. even changing the size of your wheels/tires changes the gear ratio. surely you've noticed all that? i think a good question here is why are you upgrading from one to 7 speeds. oh wait....you NEED it.

if you have a rear dropout spacing that will only fit 5 or 6 speed clusters and yet you need a lower gear than what you've been using while still retaining the high gear your used to, what will happen is that you will necessarily have larger jumps shifting from one gear to the next.
example...
14/16/ 18/21/24/28. say that 28 tooth cog isn't low enough
then you try..
14/16/18/21/24/30

that jump from 24 to 30 is an abrupt change. it may not matter so much under many of the circumstances you ride, but the shifting won't be quite as smooth nor will your cadence.... unless! you simply add another/seventh gear.

14/16/18/21/24/28/32

see how that works? smoother shifting and an even lower gear. too fancy? is that marketing? i'd buy it
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Old 05-25-21, 08:47 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by zandoval View Post
I think evaluating just how many combinations of gears you ride in is the real crux. I have my compact crank up front. I've got five to seven gears on my freewheels (threaded), but of those 5 to 7 gears I really only use about three of them. So what of those other gears? Well it's nice to know they are there if I need them.

I have noticed that riders with indexed shifters use allot more gear combinations than I do. Maybe it's also the training and familiarity. It appears that older riders tend to do a little more mashing before switching gears. And maybe that is just laziness...
I can tell you, as an older, heavier rider who lives in an area with a lot of hills, I use ALL my gears on ALL my bikes, whether friction or indexed, and 6, 7, 8, 10, or 11 speeds. I find I shift my DT shifter bikes less, but that's a question of both less convenient shifting AND fewer gears.
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Old 05-25-21, 08:49 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by thook View Post
lol...dude, you've got a bone to pick or something with your "question". no one's trying to convince you to do anything other than what you want with your gears

fyi, any change you make to the size of the chainrings and/or freewheel cogs absolutely changes the gear ratio. that's not marketing. that's physics. even changing the size of your wheels/tires changes the gear ratio. surely you've noticed all that? i think a good question here is why are you upgrading from one to 7 speeds. oh wait....you NEED it.

if you have a rear dropout spacing that will only fit 5 or 6 speed clusters and yet you need a lower gear than what you've been using while still retaining the high gear your used to, what will happen is that you will necessarily have larger jumps shifting from one gear to the next.
example...
14/16/ 18/21/24/28. say that 28 tooth cog isn't low enough
then you try..
14/16/18/21/24/30

that jump from 24 to 30 is an abrupt change. it may not matter so much under many of the circumstances you ride, but the shifting won't be quite as smooth nor will your cadence.... unless! you simply add another/seventh gear.

14/16/18/21/24/28/32

see how that works? smoother shifting and an even lower gear. too fancy? is that marketing? i'd buy it
The OP's questions on this thread and others give a distinct 'Sour Grapes' impression.
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Old 05-25-21, 08:56 AM
  #31  
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I refuse to believe this is not 100% satire.
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Old 05-25-21, 09:46 AM
  #32  
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I am inclined to think this is a troll question, simply because it asks about upgrading from 1984 technology to 1989 technology. But in case it is sincere:

The difference between low-cost entry level parts and higher-end parts is generally the amount of use you can expect before the moving bits are worn out or start to take more effort to keep in adjustment. A two season old Altus derailleur will have some serious slop and be hard to keep adjustment. A two season old XT derailleur has years to go before it reaches a similar condition.

As for the 'why' people get more gears, the better quality stuff comes with more gears - they stopped making 7 speed Shimano XT parts in 1994 or 95. If you want good quality parts that will last a few years, you get 11 or 12 speed cassettes because that is what comes with the good quality parts.

If you want an answer tailored to your specific scenario - why people are upgrading from 6 speed to 7 speed, well, not many people are doing that and haven't been for at least 30 years. As mentioned above, most 6 speeds have 'freewheel' hubs, which have an unsupported length of axle under the freewheel, and that is a common point of failure. Since the late 80s, most Shimano parts (other manufacturers followed) have been equipped with a 'freehub' rear hub, where the ratchet mechanism is built into the hub and the axle is supported way out at the ends instead of in the middle, making it much more robust. Switching from 6 speed to 7 speed with freewheels made the need for this change more obvious because the added length of unsupported axle greatly increased the frequency of failure.
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Old 05-25-21, 09:47 AM
  #33  
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The mountain bike I replaced had a 6 speed freewheel. Its 14 - 34T sprockets being evenly spaced with BIG jumps between gears. This made it less likely for me to find the right gear (most comfortable) for many situations.

My new comfort bike's 7 speed freewheel also uses14 - 34T sprockets, But what shimano did is use 6 properly spaced sprockets from 14 - 24T and added a granny cog with 34T. The result is 6 of the most used gears on this 7 speed are better spaced then many 10 and 11 speed cassettes. And I still have an extra low "bailout gear" if needed.

At first I was unhappy with this decades old design But after using it I understand why it is so popular with many entry level bikes to this day (mine's a 2018) when budget limitions make this 7 speed "Megarange" a fine choice if you want to keep the most used gears properly spaced and urprisingly that 10T jump isn't as objectionable as I first thought because it's in such a low gear to start.These work best and often come with a double or triple chaining as the six14 - 24T cogs don't offer much range.
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Old 05-25-21, 10:49 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by PimpMan View Post
wonder whats the great advantage you get from one extra gear?
For me and my vintage road bikes, it's about new freewheel availability. The really nice all-chrome Sunrace 7-speeds are easier to find than the 6-speeds.

There's also probably some advantage to having the closer gear ratios. But there may be a disadvantage to the slightly greater wheel dish due to the wider hub spacing.
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Old 05-25-21, 11:05 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
For me and my vintage road bikes, it's about new freewheel availability. The really nice all-chrome Sunrace 7-speeds are easier to find than the 6-speeds.

There's also probably some advantage to having the closer gear ratios. But there may be a disadvantage to the slightly greater wheel dish due to the wider hub spacing.
there is if you're just picky enough...and i am. when i first ran a 13/15/17/21/24/29/34 cassette, i was kinda turned off in the first few rides. the bigger 5 tooth jumps made shifting while (steep) climbing a bit trickier than what i was used to with 4 tooth jumps in the same given range of the gears. i did get used to it, though. i think the difference wheel dish is of nominal concern unless one is hardcore off road and/or of a husky build. but, i suppose it is there
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Old 05-25-21, 12:20 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
...and fixed gear riding has broadened the cadence range in which I am comfortable.
This is something overlooked, except for those who ride single speed. Being able to ride comfortably at different cadences is a benefit in non-competitive situations, as JohnDThompson has pointed out.

I’ve posted this before so I won’t go into detail, but running 3 cassette cogs for high end, cruising, and low end might be the perfect setup for those who want simplicity and fewer gears, but also want better climbing and more top end when needed.

John
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Old 05-25-21, 02:20 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by ClydeClydeson View Post
I am inclined to think this is a troll question.....
I can't imagine you are alone in that.
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Old 05-25-21, 03:07 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by PimpMan View Post
people like to upgrade 6 speed to 7 speeds, wonder whats the great advantage you get from one extra gear?
When I upgraded [sic] from 6 to 7 speeds -- which was a dozen years ago, on a bike that was 20 years older than that -- it was simply because at that time replacement 7 speed cogs/freehweels were more easily available than 6 speed.
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Old 05-25-21, 07:52 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by PimpMan View Post
To me its more of a marketing, if you bike is a goal then one put new expensive stuff, if its just a means of transportation commuting one care less about all the fancy things.


Does it affect gear ration in any way if you have big cog in the front and small in the rear or other way around, i doubt. but of course there's some marketing explanation that this setup is better in some way etc...


Again i like riding 1 speed so i be fine with either 6 or 7 speeds.
Again not marketing...It is actually practical. As for transportation I would want quality parts on my bike that are reliable and require less work and maintenance. New parts in 6 and 7 speed are not quality these days newer stuff has a bit more to a lot more quality. It has nothing to do with marketing, some stuff is based in marketing but most of it not so much.

Single speed stuff can be quality as well and also there is cheap stuff as well. I didn't get my Sugino 75 Direct Drive because of someone marketing to me, I wanted it because of the features it has that work well for me and like it is something that will last a long time and look good. I don't care who rides on it or if someone somewhere has a cool ad for it. My drivetrain is noticeably smoother because the chainring is properly round and has a profile that works well for the chain. Not marketing just a fact of me riding on it and using it.

Yes any change in gearing will effect gear ratios, again nothing to do with marketing. Having such a massive set of gears is just not fun to ride and not having a low enough gearing for hills is also not fun. I love the bike it looks great but the gearing on it sucks.

I am really curious what your fear of everything being marketing? Just because something is nicer than you are used to it has nothing to do with marketing.
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Old 05-25-21, 08:19 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
New parts in 6 and 7 speed are not quality these days....
.
you might be surprised. there are some choice quality parts to be had in that spectrum. for example, sunrace makes some great hyperglide freewheels
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Old 05-25-21, 08:31 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by thook View Post
you might be surprised. there are some choice quality parts to be had in that spectrum. for example, sunrace makes some great hyperglide freewheels
Where? it is tourney/bottom level stuff. SunRace is OK stuff but isn't a mark of quality it is lower end stuff . Keep in mind 6 and 7 speed was top of the range back in the late 80s to early 90s. The only really quality multi-speed freewheels are IRD or NOS units. Cassettes came around that same point but were pretty much standard by 7 speed. Yes you could still have 7 speed freewheels but beyond that it came to cassettes or was quite low end or something odd.
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Old 05-25-21, 08:33 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by ClydeClydeson View Post
I am inclined to think this is a troll question, simply because it asks about upgrading from 1984 technology to 1989 technology. But in case it is sincere:
Not surprising since this is one of the threads he started a few weeks ago.
Tour de-france type of riders, what's their deal?
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Old 05-25-21, 08:49 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
The only really quality multi-speed freewheels are IRD or NOS units.
I disagree. I've had two IRD freewheels fail. You can find threads on related IRD issues here on bikeforums. Not only do I find the all-chrome Sunrace freewheels reliable, but they also shift much better than vintage, unramped cogsets. At least, that's my experience.
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Old 05-25-21, 09:11 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Where? it is tourney/bottom level stuff. SunRace is OK stuff but isn't a mark of quality it is lower end stuff . Keep in mind 6 and 7 speed was top of the range back in the late 80s to early 90s. The only really quality multi-speed freewheels are IRD or NOS units. Cassettes came around that same point but were pretty much standard by 7 speed. Yes you could still have 7 speed freewheels but beyond that it came to cassettes or was quite low end or something odd.
let's distinguish between tier level and quality, okay? just because a parts group is not marketed as the higher group status doesn't automatically exclude quality. i've had altus and alivio parts last as long and work as well as upper tier groups. quality does trickle down, in some cases. and, in some cases, the only thing really distinguishing or separating the groups is weight and finish...eg. flat/hex head fasteners vs allen head. tourney? i may concede to that, but otoh plenty of folks seem perfectly satisfied to their needs. perhaps this where our friend PimpMan has an axe to grind with marketing? i can relate to him because in many way he's absolutely right. "upgraditus" is condition we fanatics can get sucked into. i've done much better over the years. still a bit of a snob, though....lol. i actually hold respect for individuals who proudly and successfully run bottom end parts not giving a rat's ars. take commuters; they buy the most affordable stuff and run that sh** into the ground.
i don't know anyone who'd argue the freehubs/cassettes have an advantage. years of freewheel use by those who run them only proves their validity and quality though, like anything, they have limits.
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Old 05-25-21, 09:17 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
I disagree. I've had two IRD freewheels fail. You can find threads on related IRD issues here on bikeforums. Not only do I find the all-chrome Sunrace freewheels reliable, but they also shift much better than vintage, unramped cogsets. At least, that's my experience.
i have a shimano 7spd mega range freewheel on one wheelset. i scoffed and scoffed wanting emphatically to change it out before running the wheels. but, i don't have the tool. so, i said eff it and it's better than i thought it'd be. the jump from 24 to 34 is annoying, but it does shift it quite well. yay hyperglide!! how long will it last? who cares..haha
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Old 05-26-21, 09:49 AM
  #46  
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I skimmed the thread and didn't see this reason so I'll share mine: you can get 7-speed brifters (but not 6 speed or at least not as easily). My brother-in-law bought an old Raleigh to ride but hated the downtube shifters. He didn't need/want a 7-speed freewheel but it was an easy-enough swap and allowed me to install an old pair of Shimano Tourney-level brake/shift levers I had sitting around (came off a bike that went from 7 to 10 speeds!). 'Modernized' his bike for about $25. If I recall correctly, I had to re-space the hub to 128mm, and adjust the dish of the rim slightly to compensate, to position the longer freewheel properly.
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Old 05-26-21, 10:47 AM
  #47  
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Question about freewheels - my newest bike, which is also my oldest bike, is a 1982 Lotus Supreme. It's got DT friction shifters and 126mm spacing. It's also got two wheelsets, one of which is for freewheels. Currently it's running an old 6-speed, 13-26 Shimano 600 freewheel. Would a NEW 7 speed Sunrace or similar freewheel fit the hub? Obviously with friction shifting spacing between the gears is not a problem, but will it fit between the spokes and the dropouts?
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Old 05-26-21, 10:52 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Question about freewheels - my newest bike, which is also my oldest bike, is a 1982 Lotus Supreme. It's got DT friction shifters and 126mm spacing. It's also got two wheelsets, one of which is for freewheels. Currently it's running an old 6-speed, 13-26 Shimano 600 freewheel. Would a NEW 7 speed Sunrace or similar freewheel fit the hub? Obviously with friction shifting spacing between the gears is not a problem, but will it fit between the spokes and the dropouts?
it should. i've read 126mm spacing is compatible to 6 and 7spd. practically speaking, i ran a 7spd freewheel on my old '82 trek that originally came as a 6spd. i didn't have to change a thing
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Old 05-26-21, 04:20 PM
  #49  
philbob57
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My experience is similar to thook's. I had my rear DO spacing changed to 126 mm (from 120) to fit 125 mm Campy hubs. A Shimano 7-speed freewheel fits fine. I have heard that there sometimes are problems with the smallest cog and chainstay wanting to be in the same space, so it will probably work for you but might not.
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Old 05-26-21, 05:15 PM
  #50  
EddyR
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Is this a old thread from 20 years ago?
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