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6 vs 7 speed why people upgrade?

Old 05-26-21, 05:30 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by philbob57 View Post
My experience is similar to thook's. I had my rear DO spacing changed to 126 mm (from 120) to fit 125 mm Campy hubs. A Shimano 7-speed freewheel fits fine. I have heard that there sometimes are problems with the smallest cog and chainstay wanting to be in the same space, so it will probably work for you but might not.
i had that problem on an early 70's dawes galaxy. originally a 5spd and had stamped drop outs. plus, the chainstay was just kind of fat.
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Old 05-26-21, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by EddyR View Post
Is this a old thread from 20 years ago?
welcome to....the twilight zone!
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Old 05-26-21, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
it's running an old 6-speed, 13-26 Shimano 600 freewheel. Would a NEW 7 speed Sunrace or similar freewheel fit the hub?
It may not. I often find 6-speed hub spacing requires an additional 1-2mm for the Sunrace 7-speeds. As long as you have an additional spacer, the axle is long enough and you can redish the wheel properly, this usually isn't a problem.
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Old 05-26-21, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
It may not. I often find 6-speed hub spacing requires an additional 1-2mm for the Sunrace 7-speeds. As long as you have an additional spacer, the axle is long enough and you can redish the wheel properly, this usually isn't a problem.
Anything requiring re-dishing a wheels is not what I'd call 'fit'. I guess I'll stick with my aged 6-speed Uniglide freewheel.
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Old 05-26-21, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
It may not. I often find 6-speed hub spacing requires an additional 1-2mm for the Sunrace 7-speeds. As long as you have an additional spacer, the axle is long enough and you can redish the wheel properly, this usually isn't a problem.
really? i believe noobinsf put a sunrace on one of his bikes (in a thread he started) and it went off without a hitch. i'd have to review it, i guess

he did go from a 6spd suntour to a 7spd sunrace, BUT he also swapped wheelsets...haha. oh well. i don't use any sunrace freewheels. all i have are shimano and suntour

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Old 05-26-21, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by thook View Post
really? i believe noobinsf put a sunrace on one of his bikes ... and it went off without a hitch.
Yes. It's been my experience that those 7-speed Sunrace freewheels are a little wider than vintage 6-speeds. You can sometimes just swap it in, but it depends on the hub and wheel. I choose not to place any unnecessary space between the smallest cog and the end of the seatstay/chainstay, so I often have to do a little bit of work to get it just right.
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Old 05-27-21, 05:29 AM
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I have skimmed every post. Any each poster missed the obvious reason to go to 7-speeds versus 6 speeds. Shifters. Unless you are happy using friction shifters, it's getting harder and harder to find indexed 6-speed shifters. That is, unless you have a well-stocked coop nearby with bins of discarded shifters. That's where you might find some 6-speed stuff. Maybe.

I just replaced a set of Shimano 6-speed indexed downtube shifters for a customer. We had to go from nice Shimano 600 stuff (the inner notched plate failed) to cheaper Light Action 452 shifters. That set cost $40, cheapest I could find on eBay.

7-speed shifters are plentiful, whether for flat-bar with v-brake, or drop bar STI equivalent or twist grip. That's why. If you want inexpensive indexing on the rear, and you lack the compatible parts (starting from scratch build), then 7-speed is the way to go.
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Old 05-27-21, 06:07 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Interesting. I was not aware of this trend.
I guess you weren't paying attention in the 1980s.
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Old 05-27-21, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
I guess you weren't paying attention in the 1980s.
I stopped paying attention to bikes in 1974 (the instant I got a drivers license) and started again 20 years later. Like Rip van Winkle, I fell asleep in an era of 5 speed, downtube shifters, suicide levers, and dodgy brakes and woke up in the era of 8 speeds, STIs, and dual pivots.

And yet now I find myself working backwards from 10 speed STIs to 8 speed indexed DT to 7 speed, and now to 6 speed friction shifting. I must be nuts.
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Old 05-27-21, 10:56 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by thook View Post
let's distinguish between tier level and quality, okay? just because a parts group is not marketed as the higher group status doesn't automatically exclude quality. i've had altus and alivio parts last as long and work as well as upper tier groups. quality does trickle down, in some cases. and, in some cases, the only thing really distinguishing or separating the groups is weight and finish...eg. flat/hex head fasteners vs allen head. tourney? i may concede to that, but otoh plenty of folks seem perfectly satisfied to their needs. perhaps this where our friend PimpMan has an axe to grind with marketing? i can relate to him because in many way he's absolutely right. "upgraditus" is condition we fanatics can get sucked into. i've done much better over the years. still a bit of a snob, though....lol. i actually hold respect for individuals who proudly and successfully run bottom end parts not giving a rat's ars. take commuters; they buy the most affordable stuff and run that sh** into the ground.
i don't know anyone who'd argue the freehubs/cassettes have an advantage. years of freewheel use by those who run them only proves their validity and quality though, like anything, they have limits.
Sure but Tourney is tourney is tourney. It is not of quality, we know that we can say we don't or claim it is great stuff. It is the bottom end of the garbage pile, it is cheaply made with cheap materials and doesn't last well. Yes there is a small amount of trickle down but not to the level that modern 2021 tourney will be better than say 30 year old 600 it will be maybe better than 30 year old tourney.

Allen is hex just a brand name for hex tools. Just like Xerox and photocopy.
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Old 05-27-21, 10:58 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
I disagree. I've had two IRD freewheels fail. You can find threads on related IRD issues here on bikeforums. Not only do I find the all-chrome Sunrace freewheels reliable, but they also shift much better than vintage, unramped cogsets. At least, that's my experience.
Their original stuff had some issues but the newer stuff is fine. I have been running them for years but none of mine were first gen.
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Old 05-27-21, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Sure but Tourney is tourney is tourney. It is not of quality, we know that we can say we don't or claim it is great stuff. It is the bottom end of the garbage pile, it is cheaply made with cheap materials and doesn't last well. Yes there is a small amount of trickle down but not to the level that modern 2021 tourney will be better than say 30 year old 600 it will be maybe better than 30 year old tourney.

Allen is hex just a brand name for hex tools. Just like Xerox and photocopy.
it's not just a brand name, dude. allen is a hex shape, but it's not the same as what's called hex head. you'll need a different tool for either. google in "hex head bolt" and "allen head bolt" and you'll get different results.

i conceded on tourney, didn't i? anyway, it doesn't matter. tourney has it's place. i'm sure pimpman is just happy to have something he can afford and ride for a while

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Old 05-27-21, 04:29 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by thook View Post
i'm sure pimpman is just happy to have something he can afford and ride for a while
I'm not sure the thing is actually operable. Hard to keep up with it all.
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Old 05-27-21, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
I have skimmed every post. Any each poster missed the obvious reason to go to 7-speeds versus 6 speeds. Shifters.
I mentioned shifters, specifically 7-speed brifters. But it’s cool. 1 post out of ~70 is tough to spot :-)
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Old 05-27-21, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Anything requiring re-dishing a wheels is not what I'd call 'fit'. I guess I'll stick with my aged 6-speed Uniglide freewheel.
Re-dishing to accommodate a 2mm offset (meaning 1mm dish adjustment) is maybe 1/4 turn on each drive-side nipple. You don’t even need a truing stand for it, assuming the wheel was reasonably true to begin.

Honestly, other than needing to re-center your brakes, you could just add the 2mm and ride it as-is with the slightly offset wheel. You won’t
notice it.
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Old 05-27-21, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by thook View Post
it's not just a brand name, dude. allen is a hex shape, but it's not the same as what's called hex head. you'll need a different tool for either. google in "hex head bolt" and "allen head bolt" and you'll get different results.

i conceded on tourney, didn't i? anyway, it doesn't matter. tourney has it's place. i'm sure pimpman is just happy to have something he can afford and ride for a while
I get ya now on that. I was reading it wrong. Allen is a brand though like Xerox, the bolts are sometimes called Allen head or more typically socket cap or hex cap or hex socket.

I don't know that you could easily recycle derailleurs but if possible and more ecologically sound then yes they have a good place. Shimano could easily make low cost derailleurs that are a touch higher quality and not just slap their name on something. However they choose not to and instead will put their logo on anything that can even sort of shift at least for a bit.
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Old 05-27-21, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
I get ya now on that. I was reading it wrong. Allen is a brand though like Xerox, the bolts are sometimes called Allen head or more typically socket cap or hex cap or hex socket.

I don't know that you could easily recycle derailleurs but if possible and more ecologically sound then yes they have a good place. Shimano could easily make low cost derailleurs that are a touch higher quality and not just slap their name on something. However they choose not to and instead will put their logo on anything that can even sort of shift at least for a bit.
lol....not much point in going back and forth on this. i guarantee, though, if you worked in a shop for a bit, allen head would be the identifying term used.

shimano could do that. and, they do; altus, alivio, and what's that other one? oh, acera. (i have no idea on road groups. all my road group experiences are suntour early/mid eighties). yeah, i get what you're saying, though. and, i suppose it's best to be honest with people posting about the reputation of equipment. but, to more or less just say,"hey, that's a piece of garbage (ie. bottom of the barrel)"? it's rather discouraging in several ways. personally, i try to encourage people... if i'm not feeling too salty
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Old 05-27-21, 10:02 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by thook View Post
lol....not much point in going back and forth on this. i guarantee, though, if you worked in a shop for a bit, Allen head would be the identifying term used.

shimano could do that. and, they do; altus, alivio, and what's that other one? oh, acera. (i have no idea on road groups. all my road group experiences are suntour early/mid eighties). yeah, i get what you're saying, though. and, i suppose it's best to be honest with people posting about the reputation of equipment. but, to more or less just say,"hey, that's a piece of garbage (ie. bottom of the barrel)"? it's rather discouraging in several ways. personally, i try to encourage people... if i'm not feeling too salty
I have worked in the shop for a bit and sometimes Allen head is used but usually they just say a hex bolt or Torx bolt because we don't often have actual hex heads that we need to replace or use (except occasionally usually on hitch racks but we haven't done repairs on those aside from strap replacement or something). Again Allen is a proper name so we should capitalize.

Alivio is fine Tiagra is fine, that could be the low end of the spectrum or maybe one lower and everything would be fine, just fine, how are you? (Sorry it was a Solo joke this time don't want to Star t any Wars)

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Old 05-27-21, 10:11 PM
  #69  
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i don't know how to use a shift key, so i won't be capitalizing
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Old 05-27-21, 11:53 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by PimpMan View Post
wonder whats the great advantage you get from one extra gear?
Originally Posted by PimpMan View Post
I believe its a marketing thing.
Originally Posted by PimpMan View Post
To me its more of a marketing
Originally Posted by PimpMan View Post
i be fine with either 6 or 7 speeds.
So what was the point of starting this thread if you think it's all marketing and you don't care whether your ride 6 or 7 speeds anyway?

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Old 05-31-21, 03:03 PM
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fewer cogs

Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Will they, though? Fewer cogs means more time on each cog per unit distance.
I dont know the answer to this, but just a few observations, Ive never seen a fixed speed(on older commuter bikes that see zero maintenance) wear out the chainwheel or rear cog despite being used for "centuries". I appreciate that could be because they don't get ridden the same distances as serious "fitness" cyclists.

The question is relevant to me 6 or 7 speed, I'm still riding a mid 80s 6 speed helicomatic, original cluster, and can only see wear on the middle cogs where it seems to be more a function of the wear induced by changing gears(wear to the sides of the cogs rather than in the ramps) , whereas I do most of my miles in the top two gears and they look brand new. Sure, Id like to be in the optimum cadence more often but just treat it as some exercise variation when I'm between ratios........big picture, unless a few seconds/minutes per ride is a big deal, 10 or so useable ratios is "infinitely" better than a single speed.
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Old 06-01-21, 02:22 PM
  #72  
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I upgraded from 6 to 7 speed. Reason was simple - much more choice of 7 speed shifters, and at a pinch you can use 8 speed shifters on a 7 speed freewheel (spacing is only a tiny bit different) whereas this doesnt work with 6 speed. Why not go with 8 speed freewheel I hear you ask? 8 speed freewheels snap axles and often need more space than the old 6 speed wheel has available.

So I guess if I want to go above 7 speed I'll need to move into the 21st century and pick up some modern wheels.
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Old 06-01-21, 04:29 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by sacr View Post
I dont know the answer to this, but just a few observations, Ive never seen a fixed speed(on older commuter bikes that see zero maintenance) wear out the chainwheel or rear cog despite being used for "centuries". I appreciate that could be because they don't get ridden the same distances as serious "fitness" cyclists.
Cogs not designed for smooth shifting can have a far taller (fuller?) profile than those designed for smooth shifting (reference any early freewheel vs. a Hyperglide freewheel/cassette). As such, even with a lot of wear the chain won’t be prone to skipping under load. Combined with lower mileage and less wattage being pumped into the system and it is easy to see why they can last for ‘centuries’.
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