glue for fixing tube patch
05-30-21, 12:15 AM
#26
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to keep the glue from going to waste you could save up like, ten tubes with holes in them and patch them all at once.
anybody remember the 'Hot Patch'?
gas stations use to patch your tubes for 35 cents. the guy would put the glue on there, light it on fire for a brief moment, and then glue the patch down. don't know what kind of cement they used but it sure was flammable. lots of fumes but the guy didn't care because he usually had a ciggy hanging out of his mouth while he was patchin. they used the hot patch on car tubes when that particular thing was going on. the hot patch would never leak or come off, because the patch was "welded" to the tube.
nothin was a worse rip off than the Camel patch kit with the metal scraper.
you could pull the patch right off the tube and they did not hole air for more than 15 minutes on a good day.
anybody remember the 'Hot Patch'?
gas stations use to patch your tubes for 35 cents. the guy would put the glue on there, light it on fire for a brief moment, and then glue the patch down. don't know what kind of cement they used but it sure was flammable. lots of fumes but the guy didn't care because he usually had a ciggy hanging out of his mouth while he was patchin. they used the hot patch on car tubes when that particular thing was going on. the hot patch would never leak or come off, because the patch was "welded" to the tube.
nothin was a worse rip off than the Camel patch kit with the metal scraper.
you could pull the patch right off the tube and they did not hole air for more than 15 minutes on a good day.
Last edited by cjenrick; 05-30-21 at 12:26 AM.
05-30-21, 02:01 AM
#27
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In S E Asia, they apply the glue, light it with a cigarette lighter and blow it out after less than a second. They normally light it, and blow it out, three times, then immediately apply the patch. I can't say for sure that this is better, but it seems the patch sticks better due to the heat. The glue may not be the same as glue sold in some countries. These patches and glue are made in China.
Then they have another method, where the patch is clamped to the tube, and heat is applied, melting it to the tube. Glue is not used. It seems this method is very effective, and when done properly, patches never come off. It is a bit like the patches we used to light several decades ago. You can buy sheets of rubber, and cut patches any size you want. Heat is normally applied for about 15 minutes, so this method takes more time. Rubber sheets are made in Vietnam and Cambodia. I think this is done in the Philippines as well.
Things in this part of the world are very cheap.
Then they have another method, where the patch is clamped to the tube, and heat is applied, melting it to the tube. Glue is not used. It seems this method is very effective, and when done properly, patches never come off. It is a bit like the patches we used to light several decades ago. You can buy sheets of rubber, and cut patches any size you want. Heat is normally applied for about 15 minutes, so this method takes more time. Rubber sheets are made in Vietnam and Cambodia. I think this is done in the Philippines as well.
Things in this part of the world are very cheap.
Last edited by alo; 05-30-21 at 02:13 AM.
05-30-21, 02:38 AM
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I only really work with cans of vulcanizing fluid at my local co-op. Even there with the cans being constantly opened and closed, a can of fluid can last for weeks. The fluid can dry out but that usually only happens at the very bottom of the can and when the cap is left off.
As for the saturation question, let’s assume that all the solvent is xylene. Xylene has a saturation point of 38g per cubic meter at 20°C and 68g per cubic meter at 30°C. That’s room temperautre and about 90°F. A can of fluid has a volume of 240 mL. If the can were empty, the amount of xylene above the fluid would be 0.068 miligrams. An 8 oz can weighs about 225g. Let’s assume that the xylene is about 1/3 of the weight or 75g. To just open and close the can, flush out the air over the, that works out to 1100 openings before you’d saturate the air over the fluid with that amount of xylene. And that would be at 90°F. It jumps up to about 2000 times at room temperature.
That’s also assuming a 240 mL headspace. When the can is full, the volume of that headspace is around 60 mL.
I don’t agree. If you make sure the can is closed between uses, it’s not hard to get close to the 1000 patches per can that I worked out above. I do agree that a can is overkill for most people...it is too easy to leave the can open. I generally use tubes of glue but last year I did a patching project for my co-op and bought a can of glue. I did about 150 patches about a year ago and have done a few patches since. The fluid is just fine even after sitting in my garage through winter and summer temperatures.
As for the saturation question, let’s assume that all the solvent is xylene. Xylene has a saturation point of 38g per cubic meter at 20°C and 68g per cubic meter at 30°C. That’s room temperautre and about 90°F. A can of fluid has a volume of 240 mL. If the can were empty, the amount of xylene above the fluid would be 0.068 miligrams. An 8 oz can weighs about 225g. Let’s assume that the xylene is about 1/3 of the weight or 75g. To just open and close the can, flush out the air over the, that works out to 1100 openings before you’d saturate the air over the fluid with that amount of xylene. And that would be at 90°F. It jumps up to about 2000 times at room temperature.
That’s also assuming a 240 mL headspace. When the can is full, the volume of that headspace is around 60 mL.
I don’t agree. If you make sure the can is closed between uses, it’s not hard to get close to the 1000 patches per can that I worked out above. I do agree that a can is overkill for most people...it is too easy to leave the can open. I generally use tubes of glue but last year I did a patching project for my co-op and bought a can of glue. I did about 150 patches about a year ago and have done a few patches since. The fluid is just fine even after sitting in my garage through winter and summer temperatures.
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05-30-21, 05:10 AM
#29
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to keep the glue from going to waste you could save up like, ten tubes with holes in them and patch them all at once.
anybody remember the 'Hot Patch'?
gas stations use to patch your tubes for 35 cents. the guy would put the glue on there, light it on fire for a brief moment, and then glue the patch down. don't know what kind of cement they used but it sure was flammable. lots of fumes but the guy didn't care because he usually had a ciggy hanging out of his mouth while he was patchin. they used the hot patch on car tubes when that particular thing was going on. the hot patch would never leak or come off, because the patch was "welded" to the tube.
anybody remember the 'Hot Patch'?
gas stations use to patch your tubes for 35 cents. the guy would put the glue on there, light it on fire for a brief moment, and then glue the patch down. don't know what kind of cement they used but it sure was flammable. lots of fumes but the guy didn't care because he usually had a ciggy hanging out of his mouth while he was patchin. they used the hot patch on car tubes when that particular thing was going on. the hot patch would never leak or come off, because the patch was "welded" to the tube.
05-30-21, 05:46 AM
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anybody remember the 'Hot Patch'?
gas stations use to patch your tubes for 35 cents. the guy would put the glue on there, light it on fire for a brief moment, and then glue the patch down. don't know what kind of cement they used but it sure was flammable. lots of fumes but the guy didn't care because he usually had a ciggy hanging out of his mouth while he was patchin. they used the hot patch on car tubes when that particular thing was going on. the hot patch would never leak or come off, because the patch was "welded" to the tube.
gas stations use to patch your tubes for 35 cents. the guy would put the glue on there, light it on fire for a brief moment, and then glue the patch down. don't know what kind of cement they used but it sure was flammable. lots of fumes but the guy didn't care because he usually had a ciggy hanging out of his mouth while he was patchin. they used the hot patch on car tubes when that particular thing was going on. the hot patch would never leak or come off, because the patch was "welded" to the tube.
The part that burnt was a bit like match heads, but covering a larger surface area. It was in a metal tray. The patch was on the bottom, under the metal.
It was clamped tightly to the tube.
At that time I did not see glue on patches. The hot method was probably the only method at the time.
They use hot patches now in S E Asia, as I mentioned above. But have different methods of heating them. They still work on the same principle - melting the patch to the tube.
05-30-21, 08:49 AM
#31
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Well I wasn't expecting a chemistry lesson for the science of tube patching. I never counted how many patches we get out of an 8oz can but in our case of patching tubes in bulk it is certainly worth it. We are good about closing the can in between patch groups (8-10 at a time) and always make sure we wipe the top of the can of any glue so the cap doesn't stick between patch days. We have never had a can go dry and will replace the empty can every 6-9 months.
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05-30-21, 09:18 AM
#32
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I'd believe 1000 patches, if you're careful to apply the glue only where you need it, and thinly. I don't, because I have a can full of fluid and am not going to run out, and putting an extra half inch of glue around the hole is easier, and harder to mess up when you put the patch on. I expect I'll get closer to 300 patches out of the can.
05-30-21, 11:50 AM
#33
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A can of Rema glue lasts years, if you seal the cap correctly. There is no problem getting solvents, Trichloroetylene or Heptane, that make the glue last forever. If you want to spend your life complaining, about the drying out glue or weather, you are of course free to do so.
From My Tube Repair Kit
From My Tube Repair Kit
05-30-21, 06:32 PM
#34
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OK, that was a fun explanation, and I'm softening my position a little bit because I didn't realize how cheap those cans are. An 8oz can is roughly the price of five 10g tubes. So the calculation now is this: assume the can will yield acceptable glue for ... five years before it's unusable. If you use more than one 10g tube per year for patching, it would be cheaper to buy the can. Financially, you could save SCORES of cents per year.
But if you bugger up the threads on that cheap metal cap, or don't get it on perfectly just once... it's not there next time you need it.
Rema is mostly Naphtha, which is a blend of hydrocarbons and can have a boiling point as low as 40C... way way way lower than xylene.
https://www.rematiptop.com/assets/te...2020%20JFO.pdf
But if you bugger up the threads on that cheap metal cap, or don't get it on perfectly just once... it's not there next time you need it.
Rema is mostly Naphtha, which is a blend of hydrocarbons and can have a boiling point as low as 40C... way way way lower than xylene.
https://www.rematiptop.com/assets/te...2020%20JFO.pdf
Well, that would be true whether you used any or not 
Do you agree with the 1000 patches per can estimate?
Do you agree with the 1000 patches per can estimate?
Just too be clear, I didn’t say that you could get 1000 patch jobs out of a can. I said at the rate of saturation, that you could open and close the can 1000 times before the solvent would evaporate into the head space. The number of patch jobs you can get out of a can is probably 500 to 800.
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05-31-21, 12:42 AM
#35
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that dude lit the patch with his lighter when only a few feet away was an open can of highly flammable lacquer thinner, and he was drunk, wtf? God looks after fools and drunks.
oh and nice on the trichlor liver cancer trick.
i think i will just stick to new tubes and skip the liver transplant list.
don't ever be an organ donor. if the paramedics find you half alive, they will let you die so their friends can have your kidneys.
oh and nice on the trichlor liver cancer trick.
i think i will just stick to new tubes and skip the liver transplant list.
don't ever be an organ donor. if the paramedics find you half alive, they will let you die so their friends can have your kidneys.
05-31-21, 10:05 AM
#36
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oh and nice on the trichlor liver cancer trick.
i think i will just stick to new tubes and skip the liver transplant list.
don't ever be an organ donor. if the paramedics find you half alive, they will let you die so their friends can have your kidneys.
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05-31-21, 03:33 PM
#37
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Component* CAS # Weight %
Heptane, branched, cyclic and linear 426260-76-6 60 - 70
Acetone 67-64-1 20 - 25
From the 2015 SDS:
Component* CAS # % By Wt.
Trichloroethylene, TCE 79-01-6 40 – 70
The main component of mineral spirits is hexane.
05-31-21, 06:18 PM
#38
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This is strange. From the 2019 SDS for the Rema #203-204-205 Vulcanizing Fluid:
Component* CAS # Weight %
Heptane, branched, cyclic and linear 426260-76-6 60 - 70
Acetone 67-64-1 20 - 25
From the 2015 SDS:
Component* CAS # % By Wt.
Trichloroethylene, TCE 79-01-6 40 – 70
The main component of mineral spirits is hexane.
Component* CAS # Weight %
Heptane, branched, cyclic and linear 426260-76-6 60 - 70
Acetone 67-64-1 20 - 25
From the 2015 SDS:
Component* CAS # % By Wt.
Trichloroethylene, TCE 79-01-6 40 – 70
The main component of mineral spirits is hexane.
Most companies have been moving away from the use of halogenated compounds.
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06-01-21, 12:12 AM
#39
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no wonder the patches didn't stick, no more Tri-C.
we had 50 gallon drums of that stuff at work, the drums would get tilted horizontal and a spring loaded spigot was attached so after a hard day's work drilling angle iron for transformer brackets you could simply wash your hands with the Tri-C and they would be ready to perform surgery. and someone will surely be thinkin to themselves "that explains a lot of things"
they are still trying to fix the soil from the Fairchild plant near Whisman and 237.
don't get me started on New Idria and dirt biking in asbestos dust and drinking mercury water,
we had 50 gallon drums of that stuff at work, the drums would get tilted horizontal and a spring loaded spigot was attached so after a hard day's work drilling angle iron for transformer brackets you could simply wash your hands with the Tri-C and they would be ready to perform surgery. and someone will surely be thinkin to themselves "that explains a lot of things"
they are still trying to fix the soil from the Fairchild plant near Whisman and 237.
don't get me started on New Idria and dirt biking in asbestos dust and drinking mercury water,
06-01-21, 08:59 AM
#40
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Patches don’t stick because people do the patching wrong. They may not prep the tube correctly, don’t wait for the fluid to dry, use rubber cement instead of vulcanizing fluid, try to use the wrong patch, use any patch kit other than Rema, touch the patch, touch the dried fluid, blow up the tube to “check” the patch, etc. I have patched thousands of tubes...perhaps tens of thousands...and my failure rate is probably in the 1 per 1000 range and everyone that failed was a mistake made on my part.
Ya, I would say “don’t do that!” Halogenated solvents should be handled like you would handle a rattlesnake. In other words, handle them only if you are trained to handle them and even then leave them alone as much as possible. If you don’t know what “halogenated” means, don’t touch them at all.
we had 50 gallon drums of that stuff at work, the drums would get tilted horizontal and a spring loaded spigot was attached so after a hard day's work drilling angle iron for transformer brackets you could simply wash your hands with the Tri-C and they would be ready to perform surgery. and someone will surely be thinkin to themselves "that explains a lot of things"
they are still trying to fix the soil from the Fairchild plant near Whisman and 237.
don't get me started on New Idria and dirt biking in asbestos dust and drinking mercury water,
they are still trying to fix the soil from the Fairchild plant near Whisman and 237.
don't get me started on New Idria and dirt biking in asbestos dust and drinking mercury water,
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06-02-21, 11:52 PM
#41
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for a long time i did not even carry a spare tube. if i got a flat, i would simply patch it on the side of the road, in the rain, whatever.
and i did not like to waste tubes. one tube had 17 patches on it, that was my record, then i got a life.
and i did not like to waste tubes. one tube had 17 patches on it, that was my record, then i got a life.
06-03-21, 11:18 AM
#43
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Or what I would call barely used. 35 patches. I have a life but I’m cheap enough to squeeze snot out of Lincoln’s nose.
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06-03-21, 06:01 PM
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Make sure you squeeze out all the trapped air out of the tube of cement (like a hyperdermic needle) if you leave in the air it will harden the glue..works for me all the time..hope this helps..Zoltan
06-04-21, 03:22 AM
#45
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Oh for F sakes! My head is spinning from the irrelevant knowledge we've all gained.
Just go on EBay and buy a bunch of the right kind of glue. You can get bunches of the little tubes like the ones that come in patch kits, or bulk containers as has been explained above. I prefer buying they little tubes in bulk to replenish the little saddle bag kits.
Just search for the name brand you are familiar with or get generics - which I've done and they work fine. You can buy bulk little patches too.
I'm sure you can do the same on Amazon but aside from not wanting to support that company and it's greedy head, eBay sellers have been much much better at fulfillment and shipping time for me.
Just go on EBay and buy a bunch of the right kind of glue. You can get bunches of the little tubes like the ones that come in patch kits, or bulk containers as has been explained above. I prefer buying they little tubes in bulk to replenish the little saddle bag kits.
Just search for the name brand you are familiar with or get generics - which I've done and they work fine. You can buy bulk little patches too.
I'm sure you can do the same on Amazon but aside from not wanting to support that company and it's greedy head, eBay sellers have been much much better at fulfillment and shipping time for me.
Last edited by Camilo; 06-04-21 at 03:31 AM.
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06-04-21, 06:14 AM
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Patches don’t stick because people do the patching wrong. They may not prep the tube correctly, don’t wait for the fluid to dry, use rubber cement instead of vulcanizing fluid, try to use the wrong patch, use any patch kit other than Rema, touch the patch, touch the dried fluid, blow up the tube to “check” the patch, etc. I have patched thousands of tubes...perhaps tens of thousands...and my failure rate is probably in the 1 per 1000 range and everyone that failed was a mistake made on my part.
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06-04-21, 04:00 PM
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Oh for F sakes! My head is spinning from the irrelevant knowledge we've all gained.
Just go on EBay and buy a bunch of the right kind of glue. You can get bunches of the little tubes like the ones that come in patch kits, or bulk containers as has been explained above. I prefer buying they little tubes in bulk to replenish the little saddle bag kits.
Just search for the name brand you are familiar with or get generics - which I've done and they work fine. You can buy bulk little patches too.
I'm sure you can do the same on Amazon but aside from not wanting to support that company and it's greedy head, eBay sellers have been much much better at fulfillment and shipping time for me.
Just go on EBay and buy a bunch of the right kind of glue. You can get bunches of the little tubes like the ones that come in patch kits, or bulk containers as has been explained above. I prefer buying they little tubes in bulk to replenish the little saddle bag kits.
Just search for the name brand you are familiar with or get generics - which I've done and they work fine. You can buy bulk little patches too.
I'm sure you can do the same on Amazon but aside from not wanting to support that company and it's greedy head, eBay sellers have been much much better at fulfillment and shipping time for me.
Rema uses chemistry to make new rubber. In that SDS above, “N-Ethylcyclohexylamine” is added as an accelerator used to make new bonds with chemicals contained in the patch. I can’t find what the chemical in the patch is but it is a sulphur compound that won’t start cross linking without the accelerator. If the patch actually uses “cold vulcanization”, the patch and fluid have to be matched so that the chemistry is right. Just grabbing a patch that looks like Rema patches doesn’t mean that it will act like a Rema patch.
And, if you don’t think that cold vulcanization is a thing or that the chemistry doesn’t matter, long conveyor belts are repaired with cold vulcanization...as the preferred method.. That’s a whole lot more demanding job then a bicycle patch.
Finally, I’ve seen the results of “just going with the cheapest patch” at my local co-op. We used to use Rema fluid in cans and Rema patches in bulk. Someone made the decision to go with cheap Clark patches. Failures went from 1 in 10 (mostly due to user error) to 2 in 5. It actually cost us more because of all the failures.
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Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
