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Extra seatpost in the seattube removal

Old 07-08-21, 04:06 PM
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degan 
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Extra seatpost in the seattube removal

So I picked up a Skykomish with neat neon paint and Tange MTB tubing, a perfect base for a commuter or drop conversion. Unfortunately when I had it all apart I realized there was an entire seatpost down at the bottom of the seattube! I assume the seattube got pushed in too far so a previous owner just put one on top, but I like to think they were storing it there in case the current one broke lolololol. Anyway, I want it out. If it were a bigger frame I would probably not worry about it but its a small frame so the seatpost down in there takes up most of the seattube, limiting the length and adjustability of the seatpost that can be used. I don't think its stuck or oversized and jammed in there or anything. I have access to a welder, so I was thinking of welding a shim to a piece of rebar and making a makeshift slide hammer. Any better ideas?

Look at it there, lurking.

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Old 07-08-21, 04:56 PM
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Seat tube go into the BB shell or does it just sit on the BB shell? If it goes into, you might.... might find it easier to push the seat post into the BB shell and cut in sections. Other wise you need to fabricate something with a hooked edge to snag the bottom of the post and pull or slide hammer it out the top.

Maybe to or three hooked ends that are slightly bent with enough spring in them to go into the smaller top of the post and spring out when through the bottom. Split a piece of thick wall steel tube after shaping the hook on the end with a lathe or careful grinding.

Might want to ream or clean the inside of that tube as much as possible before pulling it out.

Appreciate you messing with my mind and putting the fork in like that! <grin>
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Old 07-08-21, 05:05 PM
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Will a quill wedge fit inside of it?

Maybe a pipe with the end tapered and some all thread. Washer and nut to secure it and a second washer/plate and nut at the end with a slide underneath.

John
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Old 07-08-21, 05:11 PM
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While the fork doesn't look bent, something just looks wrong with it.
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Old 07-08-21, 05:27 PM
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If it slipped in there it should slip back out. I would lube the inside of the seat tube with some oil and attempt to pull it back out with a piece of wire like a coat hanger. It may be an easy repair with those caveats in play. Smiles, MH
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Old 07-08-21, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by degan View Post
The bike. DON'T JUDGE MY GARAGE.
Have you seen my basement or living room?

All the others who posted had some great suggestions maybe get something pretty rugged to hook to the bottom of the post and see if you can get it out. Maybe add a little TriFlow or something just to make it easier to get out. Or see if you can get a tap and a really long handle and see if you can thread it and pull it out that way
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Old 07-08-21, 09:24 PM
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I ran into this once. The following only will work if the BB is open to the seat tube. I assume itís already been sprayed with a decent lube.
I ran a piece of all thread down through the post, put a washer on the bottom big enough to catch the post, then a nut. Then an oversized washer on top of the seat tube, and a nut on top. Grab the all thread with vise-grips, and turn the top nut to pull the post up. Eventually it will hit the top washer, but by then you can probably just yank on the all-thread to get it out.
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Old 07-08-21, 09:32 PM
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Would a star nut for a 1Ē threadless fork fit in there? That with a very long bolt (metric all thread?) would probably give you enough to kludge a slide hammer from.

Are you sure itís not a piece of the frame? A lug of some sort or something used to pin everything in place prior to brazing?
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Old 07-08-21, 09:57 PM
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A lot of great replies, thanks all! I'll try to answer a few questions. I should have mentioned this because its pretty important, but the seattube is sitting on the BB shell with only a ~5mm hole, so any chance of cutting the seatpost down section by section is out, though an interesting idea that I hadn't thought about but would do in a heartbeat. I have pretty much no access to the bottom of the seatpost, except maybe with a screwdriver at a weird angle or something. The bike has some rust which worries me about how stuck the seatpost is now, even if it wasn't stuck when it was pushed in there. I've soaked it down with penetrating oil a couple time over the two weeks or so, so hopefully its not too bad. I like the quill idea. I have a grinder so I could grind down a sacrificial quill wedge and I already have a pipe that I've been considering for a tool to pull it from the bottom that should work. I also like the idea of tapping the top of the seatpost. My brother has a serious tap set that has a big enough tap it I'm sure. My brother is on vacation so when he gets back we might have to weld a tap to the end of something, since he has the welder too. I think the easiest method, as multiple people have stated, would be to hook it in some way and pull it out. That will probably be my first strategy. Like I said, I have a pipe, more like metal conduit I guess, that fits down the opening in the seatpost. I'm going to either cut the bottom of the pipe and bend some tabs or attach something more sturdy/flat/thin if need be. Updates to follow.

Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
Would a star nut for a 1” threadless fork fit in there? That with a very long bolt (metric all thread?) would probably give you enough to kludge a slide hammer from.

Are you sure it’s not a piece of the frame? A lug of some sort or something used to pin everything in place prior to brazing?
I'll have to check the exact size, but that might be an option because I have some 1" threadless parts sitting around. I'm like 95% sure its not part of the frame. The picture only shows a little ring down there but with the naked eye you can definitely see its tapered at the top and chrome. I've also worked on tons of these Tange 90s frames and have never seen a sleeve that goes halfway up the seattube. I guess well see!
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Last edited by degan; 07-08-21 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 07-09-21, 12:32 AM
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If the stem is rusted in then getting anything in there that is robust enough to pull the stem out could be difficult.

Is the hole into the BB big enough to fit a washer that will slide up inside the stem?


Who's judging your garage?
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Old 07-09-21, 05:26 AM
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Toggle bolt and threaded rod.

​​​​​​https://www.acehardware.com/departme...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
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Old 07-09-21, 05:32 AM
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If the seatpost is aluminum and the frame is steel, it might be one with the frame by now. Steel on steel you might have a chance with a robust pulling device. DOT 3 brake fluid is an excellent iron oxide penetrant but it will ruin paint.

Try a heat gun on the seat tube too, but only if the post is steel. If the post is aluminum, try dry ice down the tube.

If the bottom of the seatpost is abutting the BB shell, it'll be very hard to hook it.

If like most straight seat posts the top is flared in a little, that'll make the starfangled nut and quill stem ideas a little more difficult. Removing that flare would be a headache.

At least you found it in early days. I don't know how many times I've gone to adjust the saddle height after hours of labor only to find a show-stopper like this. Now I typically check it with a quick twist and would have missed this one.
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Old 07-09-21, 06:50 AM
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If, as you say, it isnít stuck in there or anything, have you tried turning the frame upside down and giving it a couple of good bumps on the floor?
Who knows, might just slide right outÖ
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Old 07-09-21, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Toggle bolt and threaded rod.

​​​​​​https://www.acehardware.com/departme...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
The problem with that is that if it doesn't work, there's no way to get the toggle bolt out. You'd have to back out the threaded rod and then you'd have the toggle bolt rattling around inside.
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Old 07-09-21, 08:26 AM
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Maybe these-

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-NA-i...ool/1002599840

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-Removal-Tool/1002633308
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Old 07-09-21, 08:40 AM
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Wow, this sounds like a neat challenge! People who work in the well drilling field have various ideas and fishing tools to extract broken vertical pipe to recover.

My idea involves a tool that acts like the attached "sprinkler pipe riser remover". The idea would be to use this type of tool to turn and break the seat post free, assuming there is some corrosion or debris jamming it in the seat post. Once freed, you'd still have to remove the seat post, like using the methods described above.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Orbit-Riser-Extractor/3420774
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Old 07-09-21, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by MudPie View Post
Wow, this sounds like a neat challenge! People who work in the well drilling field have various ideas and fishing tools to extract broken vertical pipe to recover.

My idea involves a tool that acts like the attached "sprinkler pipe riser remover". The idea would be to use this type of tool to turn and break the seat post free, assuming there is some corrosion or debris jamming it in the seat post. Once freed, you'd still have to remove the seat post, like using the methods described above.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Orbit-Riser-Extractor/3420774
Along those lines you could probably drill & tap the handle of an internal pipe wrench for some all thread as well.

​​​​​​https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-NA-i...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
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Old 07-09-21, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Neese View Post
The problem with that is that if it doesn't work, there's no way to get the toggle bolt out. You'd have to back out the threaded rod and then you'd have the toggle bolt rattling around inside.
If you got a big fender washer (big enough to sit on top of the seat tube) you could actually use the toggle and threaded rod to back the seat post out of the frame (or at least to the top of the seat tube where the fender washer sits). Just a thought.
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Old 07-09-21, 11:53 AM
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The problem for any tool that expands or wedges inside the seat post is that it will expand the seat post a little wedging even more in the seat tube.
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Old 07-09-21, 12:59 PM
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there is always the lye thing

Stuck Seat Post? Lye your way out of it!

Stuck Seatpost After "Only" 30 years.

caustic soda/sodium hydroxide for alum. seat post
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Old 07-09-21, 01:58 PM
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Wow, so many great ideas again, and good discussion, thanks all! Just a quick reply as I haven't gone at the thing yet. Pictured is my access to the seattube via the BB. Not great. I thought about making a BB cutout so maybe I could get something down through there and tap it out, but drewing a frame is pretty low on the list of ideas for me. Maybe just above using lye, though I discovered the seatpost is probably AL and not chromed steel like I thought so its an option. I'd rather just leave it in there, except maybe using just enough to get it to slip out on it own and not a full obliteration of the seatpost. As I said my bro gets back from vacation in a couple days and he has most of the fancy tools and threaded rods and whatnot, but I'll give it a go with what I (and maybe HF) have first. I'll have a few hours for it this evening.
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Old 07-09-21, 03:29 PM
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To clean the seat tube I use a bit of sand paper wound around a dowel. You can get a dowel about 1/2inch or even 3/8inch and cut a slit in the dowel that you can thread the sandpaper into. Build up the paper to the right diameter by wrapping multiple layers together and then use your drill to power the sanding tip into the tube to be cleaned. Any rust and debris stuck on the inside of the seat tube will be cleared and make the removal easier. After cleaning the tube insides I would plug the hole in the BB with a cork and pour in about 6 ounces of acetone, ATF 50/50 mix. Then let it sit for an over-night soaking before trying to remove it. Smiles, MH
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Old 07-09-21, 04:23 PM
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Some threaded rod, some nuts and washers, a socket, a small flat, perhaps could fashion up a removal device.
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Old 07-09-21, 04:42 PM
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looking at the picture..... no access to put any thing in from the bottom to catch the lip of the post.

speculation here, but probably it did not slip down, but was forced down when another seat post was put in on top.

If it were me I would go get rubber cork to plug the hole in the bottom bracket and some lye and not goof around with anything else
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Old 07-09-21, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertUI View Post
If you got a big fender washer (big enough to sit on top of the seat tube) you could actually use the toggle and threaded rod to back the seat post out of the frame (or at least to the top of the seat tube where the fender washer sits). Just a thought.
I understand. But what if it doesn't work and the seat post won't move? Or what if the toggle bolt breaks? There's no way to get it back out. You could back out the threaded rod but there's no way to collapse the toggle bolt to pull it back out. It's in there forever and it will rattle around.
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