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Why tubeless over tubulars?

Old 12-27-21, 11:06 AM
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The shop I sort of work at (still, no longer on the schedule but am "on call") runs a Fall CX series (including one of the few North American UCI 1 races) so we see some of the local riders' bikes and some do run sew ups. Some of those riders use sealant in their tires. These tires seem to have less bleed down or "slow leaks" but when punctured by an outside object don't seal as well as a tubeless tire can. We attribute this to the more likely greater casing cord damage (given the higher thread count and lighter construction overall) and thus a bigger hole to plug. A few riders given up running sew ups on their CX bikes what with the cost and efforts that sew ups have compared to wire ons (clinchers).

The local gravel riders seem to run fewer sew ups and more tubeless set ups with sealant. We don't get as much feedback with them as we do from the CX racers. That gravel rides are less about winning they tend to get more riders and more riders who have less bike sense in general. (Bold statement, I'm good with any flames) Andy
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Old 12-27-21, 11:42 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
Now that I have finally joined the ranks of tubeless riders, I started to think back to my racing days when I would race on tubulars and train on clinchers. Tubulars seemed to roll more smoothly and corner more confidently (or maybe it was just a placebo). So is there any downside to just putting the tire sealant into tubular tires as compared to tubeless? If not, I know what kind of wheels I'm getting next!
There is one potentially significant drawback to adding sealant to tubulars. I run sealant in latex tubed clinchers. If you do not ride very much, the sealant will harden into one large booger or worse, the latex tube inside will be glued onto itself and won't inflate properly. Tubeless will seal a little better than tubed clinchers, so, I would expect similar results with tubies.
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Old 12-27-21, 11:56 AM
  #78  
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I use the CX bike in mtn bike terrain, and the sidewalls are vulnerable in the rocks.

Tufo tires (Cubus 32, Flexus 32) have sturdier sidewalls and have held up well. I carry a standard road tire as a spare.
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Old 12-27-21, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
There is one potentially significant drawback to adding sealant to tubulars. I run sealant in latex tubed clinchers. If you do not ride very much, the sealant will harden into one large booger or worse, the latex tube inside will be glued onto itself and won't inflate properly. Tubeless will seal a little better than tubed clinchers, so, I would expect similar results with tubies.


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Old 12-27-21, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
There is one potentially significant drawback to adding sealant to tubulars. I run sealant in latex tubed clinchers. If you do not ride very much, the sealant will harden into one large booger or worse, the latex tube inside will be glued onto itself and won't inflate properly. Tubeless will seal a little better than tubed clinchers, so, I would expect similar results with tubies.
What would you consider not riding much? Other than that, do you believe it worth the effort to add sealant to clinchers?
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Old 12-27-21, 12:44 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
There is one potentially significant drawback to adding sealant to tubulars. I run sealant in latex tubed clinchers. If you do not ride very much, the sealant will harden into one large booger or worse, the latex tube inside will be glued onto itself and won't inflate properly. Tubeless will seal a little better than tubed clinchers, so, I would expect similar results with tubies.
I think you can get this with tubeless tires, too. In the winter months, if I am forced off my two tubeless-tired bikes for longer than a week or so, I try to remember to put each one in the workstand and spin the wheels a bit.
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Old 12-27-21, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Gyro View Post
What would you consider not riding much? Other than that, do you believe it worth the effort to add sealant to clinchers?
I do think it is worth it. I got lazy and lax and did not have sealant in my tubes when I crashed. One benefit is simply slowing down the time to complete loss of pressure even if the hole isn't sealed. The sealant def stops some holes, I usually do not know until fixing a big hole (tube replacement) as I can see the holes that leaking sealant fixed. Not so apparent from the outside looking at the tire tread.

I used to go thru a rear tire in 4-6 weeks and a front tire in about twice that time. Nowadays, I ride 150-200 miles per week. If the bike sits for weeks, with flatted tubes, it could get "boogered" up. The original Orange Sealant dried up pretty quick compared to the Endurance formulation that I now use. Sorry I could not be more precise. Temperature is also a factor
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Old 12-27-21, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
I do think it is worth it. I got lazy and lax and did not have sealant in my tubes when I crashed. One benefit is simply slowing down the time to complete loss of pressure even if the hole isn't sealed. The sealant def stops some holes, I usually do not know until fixing a big hole (tube replacement) as I can see the holes that leaking sealant fixed. Not so apparent from the outside looking at the tire tread.

I used to go thru a rear tire in 4-6 weeks and a front tire in about twice that time. Nowadays, I ride 150-200 miles per week. If the bike sits for weeks, with flatted tubes, it could get "boogered" up. The original Orange Sealant dried up pretty quick compared to the Endurance formulation that I now use. Sorry I could not be more precise. Temperature is also a factor
Had flat tire hell last year riding in the same 150-200 range, very unusual. What are you using for sealant now?.
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Old 12-27-21, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Gyro View Post
Had flat tire hell last year riding in the same 150-200 range, very unusual. What are you using for sealant now?.
I use Orange in the endurance blend. I only have one set of tubeless wheels, one old set of tubular, and probably ten sets or more clincher wheels. The tubulars are Veloflex vlaanderens that are about 28 mm wide and ride like your derrieire is on pillows, probably equivalent to 35 mm supple clinchers.
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Old 12-27-21, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
There is one potentially significant drawback to adding sealant to tubulars. I run sealant in latex tubed clinchers. If you do not ride very much, the sealant will harden into one large booger or worse, the latex tube inside will be glued onto itself and won't inflate properly.
I imagine that happens on tubeless tires as well, no? I figured any time I go more than a week without riding, I should give any wheel with sealant in it a few spins to spread everything around.
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Old 12-27-21, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
10G?! That is one heavy bugger, I mean booger ...
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Old 12-27-21, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
I imagine that happens on tubeless tires as well, no? I figured any time I go more than a week without riding, I should give any wheel with sealant in it a few spins to spread everything around.
Tubeless does not have tubes that can glue together. When a latex (or butyl) tube is occluded, you can't pump your tires up. It is easy to prevent like you said but with tubeless, the effect of negligence (not riding) is much less.
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Old 12-27-21, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Tubeless does not have tubes that can glue together. When a latex (or butyl) tube is occluded, you can't pump your tires up. It is easy to prevent like you said but with tubeless, the effect of negligence (not riding) is much less.
I meant the sealant booger, but yeah that makes sense.
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Old 01-09-22, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
How long does it take the sealant to set once you put it in? I definitely find it appealing to just carry sealant instead of refresh it every 3 months.
Data point:
Yesterday I discovered a garage flat while I was getting ready for a ride; turned out to be a TINY piece of wire, old sew-up. I squirted a half bottle of Stan's in there (wheel out and in a truing stand), gave it a spin, pressed it up, and it held. I left it for about an hour and a half and it was still good so I pressed it up again just to be sure and it held for my regular Diablo ride, and it's still holding after 24 hours... as well as latex tubes hold anyway.

I don't think I'd count on it for a road repair, but I'd give it a shot if it were all I had.

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Old 01-09-22, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
I don't think I'd count on it for a road repair, but I'd give it a shot if it were all I had.
Thanks, so maybe running sealant in it 24/7 would be the best way.
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Old 01-10-22, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
I don't think I'd count on it for a road repair
Why on earth not? Worked for me, I was back riding in five minutes.
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Old 01-10-22, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Why on earth not? Worked for me, I was back riding in five minutes.
Right - worth a shot. I'd put one egg in that basket, and the rest of my eggs in a folded spare that I know is good.
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Old 01-10-22, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
The joy of tubulars is that when you flat, you simply peel off the tire and put a fresh one on.
that sounds like a rather expensive joy. Not to mention having to carry a bulky spare tubular tire around.
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Old 01-10-22, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
that sounds like a rather expensive joy. Not to mention having to carry a bulky spare tubular tire around.
I put the flatted ones in a box and about once a year do repairs. Every once in a while I was in a situation where a fast and guaranteed tire change was needed, Loved that I could always do it. In fact, yesterday afternoon was one of those days. I flatted in waning light and my dark sunglasses. Clinchers. Came up empty handed on the cause. Swapped the tube. Made it home without incident and felt very lucky. (I was cooling off fast.)

Tubulars would have made that a breeze. Change would have been considerably faster and zero time would have been spent looking for a cause. No skill what so ever would have been needed,
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Old 01-11-22, 12:15 AM
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I've done the tubeless with sealant and the tubed clinchers with sealant thing, but both on fat tire/low pressure setups. Tubed clinchers with sealant stops most small isolated punctures but failed miserably once when I rode thru a field of goatheads.

Now I'm in possession of two tubular wheelsets that came on used bikes that I've purchased. I'm toying with the idea of preemptively filling the tubulars with sealant, but remain skeptical due to the high pressure and the fact that they'll dry up over time and get stuck inside the inner tube. In my tubed clincher applications the sealant needed to be refilled periodically and eventually the stuff accumulates inside the tube. Unlike a tubed clincher, however, it's not a trivial exercise to replace the inner tube inside of a tubular tire.
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Old 01-11-22, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
Right - worth a shot. I'd put one egg in that basket, and the rest of my eggs in a folded spare that I know is good.
Well yeah, I assume everyone rides with a spare. But sealant in a tube is the same as sealant in a tubeless tire but I don't think many people carry a spare tubeless tire. Being able to fold up a tire tight and strap it to the saddle for a spare is one reason I prefer tubulars over clinchers.
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Old 01-11-22, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
Thanks, so maybe running sealant in it 24/7 would be the best way.

IME, sealant just doesn't work that well. Punctures sort of seal, but intermittently leak & spit at road pressures.

Heading out on a ride with a leaky tire is not good, so why bother? I have carried a small bottle of Stan's but more recently don't, having settled on tires that are very trouble-free.
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Old 01-12-22, 12:08 PM
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I just bought a set of Zipp 303s wheels with hookless 23mm internal width rims. For a 140 pound rider, and 30mm tires, the recommended tire pressure is 51 front, 54 rear. My Pirelli P Zero TLR tires required no tools or soapy water to install and aired up with my 35 year old Silca pump. That installation was much easier than my 19mm hooked rims with Michelin tubeless tires. This setup produces a really comfy ride and low rolling resistance, according to SRAM. All I can test is the ride, which has been great. I carry a spare tube if ever needed and use orange seal endurance sealant. I've been on tubeless for over 6,000 miles and had no punctures. In 16,000 miles I've had two pinch flats with tubed tires, but no other punctures.
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Old 01-12-22, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
I just bought a set of Zipp 303s wheels with hookless 23mm internal width rims. For a 140 pound rider, and 30mm tires, the recommended tire pressure is 51 front, 54 rear. My Pirelli P Zero TLR tires required no tools or soapy water to install and aired up with my 35 year old Silca pump. That installation was much easier than my 19mm hooked rims with Michelin tubeless tires. This setup produces a really comfy ride and low rolling resistance, according to SRAM. All I can test is the ride, which has been great. I carry a spare tube if ever needed and use orange seal endurance sealant. I've been on tubeless for over 6,000 miles and had no punctures. In 16,000 miles I've had two pinch flats with tubed tires, but no other punctures.
Hookless scares me because it looks like the tire would roll off the rim more easily than hooked tubeless or clinchers. Am I way off there?
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Old 01-13-22, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
Hookless scares me because it looks like the tire would roll off the rim more easily than hooked tubeless or clinchers. Am I way off there?
Well, there has to be a reason Conti tire pressures are limited to 73 psi for hookless

Absent an industry spec with tire and rim makers, tolerance stackup isn't something I would roll the dice on personally.
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