joesch

My first wheel build was a very simple start using 32h DT rims, hub, and spokes. (DT RR1.1 rims 32h)

Reason I attempted was because a Ringle super bubba front 32h hub broke off where one of the spokes laced in.

I did find that there was a history of this issue with Ringle hubs and this one looked in excellent condition.

I found a new DT 32h hub and rebuilt using simple straight lacing, no crosses.
Got nice tight build and very true spin.

Used biked probably several hundred miles with good performance and the wheel stayed very true.

Surprise was that after latest 40m ride, party on gravel, I found that almost half of the nipples had completely unscrewed. Amazingly the wheel was still spinning true and I did not even notice till after the ride when I cleaned up the bike.

I reconnected all the spokes and got all tight. Wheel again spins true and test ride successful.

Im thinking this will probably happen again.
Is this an issue with non-crossed wheel builds ?
Should I apply something like locktight to help prevent this from happening again ?

TIA for any advice

shelbyfv

I'll be interested to read the replies. Don't think I've ever seen a radial 32 spoke wheel in the wild.

bboy314

Did you use anything to prep the threads when you built the wheel?

ThermionicScott 

What tension did you build to, and did you stress-relieve along the way?

Usually it's the rear NDS spokes that have trouble loosening because you sometimes have no choice but to use marginal tensions there. But a front should be pretty solid.

joesch

The original wheel with the Ringle hub was laced the same way.
I would suspect that radial patterns put more tension on the hubs and allow tension loss faster.

joesch

I used silicon lubricant to prep the threads.

joesch

I dont have a tension measuring device so not sure.
I tried to go in small increments, maybe 1/4 turn, and feel the tension in spoke pairs as I was tightening up around the wheel.

ThermionicScott 

Hmm, straight-gauge or double-butted spokes? Thicker spokes will feel tight/stiff at a lower tension than thinner spokes, so that could be it.

I don't think it's a matter of the spokes not being interlaced. The only time that helps is when a spoke completely loses tension, which shouldn't be a regular occurrence.

cyccommute 

Wild enough?



Built in 2010. About 3200 miles on them without issues. To be sure, I probably wouldn’t do it again but I ordered the wrong spokes when I built them.

cyccommute 

I’m not sure what lubricant you were using but it could be part of your problem if it is just a lubricant. I use Wheelsmith spoke preparation or Fix from Wheelfanatyk. Spoke nipples are oiled before installation. If you just used oil, there may not be anything to keep the threads from vibrating loose.

cxwrench

If you have to rely on 'spoke prep' of some kind to keep your spokes tight you're doing it wrong.

sweeks

Based on my experience building a grand total of 6 wheels, this sounds reasonable. I used motor oil for lubricating the spoke threads and rim holes and have not had any spokes loosen.

frogman

I agree. If the wheel is assembled properly you don't need to try and rely on spoke prep in liue of proper tensioning. We have retensioned our share of
wheels from co-ops.

cyccommute 

You can do what you want but there are people who have built many more wheels than I have who suggest spoke prep. I’ve only built a few hundred so what do I know?

cyccommute 

I know of no one who would use spoke prep “in lieu of proper tensioning”. They use it in addition to proper tensioning. It makes the build easier by lubricating the threads and just happens to help with vibrational loosening as well.

I don’t know of a lot of co-ops that are in the business of building wheels that would need to be retensioned.

veganbikes

Ehhh, I have heard different opinions from different mechanics and wheel builders, While yes a properly built wheel is unlikely to come undone using some sort of spoke preparation either something specifically made or linseed oil or something like that isn't always a bad thing. I think if you got 5 different professional wheel builders in a room they would all have different methods and ideas to essentially get to the same spot a well built wheel.

frogman

I didn't say we excluded the lubricant. (nice try) But you are correct on the spoke prep.

How many co-ops do you know about in nothern California ? Speak for your own area. Our co-ops build and rebuild wheels and the ones we get in to fix are terrible.

GamblerGORD53

My LBS wheels used to loosen all the time. In 2012 I started building my own wheels with heavy SA and IGH hubs.
Except for the Rohloff14, I have used 2.3/ 2.0 spokes. ONLY with DT Prolock brass nipples. ZERO chance of untwisting.
The first one went 28,000 miles, including 8,100 on tour. I goofed by making it 3 cross. Yesterday I finally decided to rebuild it properly with 2 cross, to also match the other ones. I took it apart and had the spokes shortened a half inch. The nipples were 10 mm, too short IMO, and had a layer of lime/ salt/ corrosion, so I chucked them for 12 mm black Prolocks. One spoke had a gouge, so was replaced too. I only use everlasting Dyad rims without nasty eyelets. Still as good as new.
It turned out perfect.

GhostRider62

Not enough tension.

What spokes?

dsaul

Not enough tension on the initial build. The proper tension is much higher than you think, if you are just building by feel with no tension gauge.

Moe Zhoost

I've built dozens of wheels and have never had a nipple loosen. I can only think of 2 reasons why this would happen: 1) not enough tension, 2) Wrong nipple, e.g. 14g nipple on 15g spoke These screw on just fine and may take some tension.
I've always just used regular motor oil for prep and have no experience with commercial preps.

sweeks

My intention wasn't to say you are wrong. I was hinting, by saying "a grand total of six", that I'm aware of my limited experience.
FWIW, I find your posts full of useful information. Cheers!

joesch

Lots of replies and I suspect this suggestion from ThermionicScott is probably correct. I used a SG DT spokes, nipples, rims, and hubs and probably could have gone tighter. Im guessing just one spoke not tensioned high enough could result in nipple unscrew, and then its a progressive effect, with loss of tension increasing each time. Again, I was amazed to find about 1/2 of the 32 nipples unscrewed. Lesson learned is that "feeling" tension is Not good enough and I need to get a tool for measuring all are correct before riding.

RE: lubricants for prepping build, I do not think 'the kind of' is that important.

The question that nobody addressed is do any wheel builders use "LOCTITE® THREADLOCKERS" https://www.uline.com/BL_8551/Loctit...ywords=loctite ?

Thanks to everyone for your responses.

cxwrench

Nope. I've been using Wheelsmith Spoke Prep for years but have built hundreds of wheels prior to that using TriFlo only.

cyccommute 

Based upon what? This was your first wheel build by your own admission and you had spoke nipples unscrew. If you read just a little bit about building wheels, you’ll find nearly universal suggestions on using a spoke preparation of some kind. Even back in the day, people used linseed oil for the same purpose. Modern spoke preps are easier to use as they dry faster.

Some might. Most use Wheelsmith spoke prep or similar products. Loctite is a bit expensive by comparison. The smallest amount on the link above is 19g for about $40. Wheelsmith spoke prep is around $25 for the same amount. Fix from Wheel Fanatyk is $13 for a similar amount. 15ml (or about 19g) will do several wheel sets.