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Building rear moutain bike wheel advice needed?

Old 03-04-22, 09:24 AM
  #51  
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As Dedhed says, donít overthink it. No one can say which wheel will be better, so just make sure to get something decent and strong like either link from post #24. The eyelets some rims have are a good feature but plenty of very durable rims donít have them - it looks like that Velocity rim is reinforced where the nipples sit.

Another bit of advice - when riding over potholes or up and down curbs and the like, lift your butt up off the saddle. This will relieve a lot of stress from your rear wheel.
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Old 03-04-22, 09:55 AM
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7 speed wheels aren't in high demand here. You might have some luck buying an entire bike on Craigslist or FB Marketplace, you just need a good rear wheel. Bike Co-op may be of help.
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Old 03-04-22, 10:30 AM
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I would disagree with the advice to buy a used bike for the wheel - most stock wheels will not be particularly strong compared with your aftermarket options, and it might be hard to determine what condition the new (used) parts are in. Since you have a history with your bike and have made other upgrades already, I think itís well worth it to spend money on a quality rear wheel to fit it. The fact that itís a 7 speed is a non issue as long as you have the proper cassette spacer.
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Old 03-04-22, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by grizzly59 View Post
7 speed wheels aren't in high demand here. You might have some luck buying an entire bike on Craigslist or FB Marketplace, you just need a good rear wheel. Bike Co-op may be of help.

Hi Grizzly59!


Thanks very much for taking the time to consider my case! I'm a used rear wheel phob presently as I paid $313 for two wheels, a front and a rear and throughout a year two broken spokes in the rear. Most recently it went so far out of balance a local shop said I need a new rear wheel. Don't want to have the same thing happen with a used wheel so I'm thinking things over with great advice here. Having a shop rebuild a wheel is the most expensive way, but still teetering on that possibility and considering a new already built wheel. There is one for $119, a "Cliffhanger" wheel but they don't say what kind of hubs, just that they are Shimano. I haven't asked them yet but will. Also on Monday a bike coop I've gone to for several years said they were busy but would email an estimate to me and now it's Friday and still no estimate. It's important as I don't own a car and commute by bike. I can ride but can't really use the rear brakes and risk breaking spokes. Just limping along. All are so patient here with my fumbling. In a way if I spend $200 or even $300 I won't have to worry as much and maybe also have double butted spokes or even triple. I decided my Shimano XT Deore FH-M770 hub on my bad wheel isn't worth the risk if soon it also goes bad. I'm thinking rebuilding that hub, I'm very amateur, and will just use my fold-up card table as my "bench" as I live in a small apartment. Maybe I'd try to go through a YouTube tutorial to rebuild it or take it apart and inspect it and maybe buy parts to upgrade it as others, more than one, have said that particular hub has a bad history. Do you think Shimano does that, sells the internal parts to their hubs? It's just a thought right now. Thanks for you input!


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Old 03-04-22, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by winfred0000 View Post
. Do you think Shimano does that, sells the internal parts to their hubs? It's just a thought right now. Thanks for you input!
No
bearing balls are generic grade 25 readily available

Cones & axles possibly from Wheels mfg or search by part #, Either way good luck.

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-FH-M770-2699A.pdf

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spar...98010/?geoc=US
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Old 03-04-22, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Neese View Post
No. Assuming they are stainless steel spokes, they have infinite stress cycles. Unless they are bent or corroded, there is absolutely no reason to replace perfectly good spokes.

The reason the OP is breaking spokes is because of uneven spoke tension. Find a qualified wheelbuilder - someone that actually has a tensiometer and knows how to use it - and replace just the spokes that are broken. That's literally the single biggest factor in wheel strength, not the rim or the number of spokes. A properly built wheel always includes spoke tensioning. If you insist on doing your own wheel work, you need one of these or something similar.

https://www.parktool.com/product/spo...ion-meter-tm-1
I'm sorry, but there is NO "infinite stress cycle" of stainless steel spokes! I know of no bike shops that follow this idea and therefore "reuse old spokes."

The OP ABSOLUTELY must toss all of the old spokes!. The rule with wheels is when you break one spoke, you replace it. (Assuming it was the actual spoke that broke, not, say, an alloy nipple. AND it was a fatigue failure, not a breakage caused by an external force, like a rock or crash.) If a second spoke breaks shortly thereafter, that's the sign that the wheel is done. Or at least the spokes are! You MAY be able to salvage the rim, but the cost and expense of rebuilding a wheel usually makes purchasing a new rim a no-brainer. Plus, most OEM wheels are built with CRAP spokes to save money. So the original spokes probably aren't the quality of Wheelsmith, DT or Sapim. If they happen to be, I'd still toss them.

Few shops will rebuild a wheel with used spokes. They will do a rim swap on a new wheel that sustains damage when it's new. But they won't reuse old spokes from a wheel from 1998!

Spokes don't cost that much, so they're worth replacing.

And to the OP, yes, that XT hub is almost certainly worth reusing. However, if it has unseen bearing damage, then maybe not. Or if the freehub body has issues, then that too may thwart that idea. But generally, an XT hub is a pretty durable component.

I'd recommend a new double-wall rim like the Sun Rhyno or Rhyno Lite. I use them on my mountain tandem and they've been flawless.* I'd also recommend NOT using "thicker" spokes (whatever that means**). In fact, you want to use "thinner" spokes to build a better and stronger wheel. But by "thinner," I mean butted. Ideally, you'd use a triple-butted spoke if the hub can accommodate it. 2.3/1.8/2.0 spoke would give you the MOST durability in the long run. Brass nipples with internal thread locker would be good insurance. Find an experienced wheelbuilder who uses spoke tension meter and you should end up with a very strong, long-lasting rear wheel.

*I've destroyed six or seven hubs on this tandem. Three DT/Swiss and others, but the most impressive was splitting a Phil Wood in half. (It was due to a manufacturing error, and the subsequent hub has been great.) In other words, we put our wheels through a fair amount of abuse on our hard tail tandem.

** I actually know what that means. But very few wheel builders will use 13 gauge spokes in wheel builds. They simply aren't used in quality bicycle wheel building. (They're used on cheap cruisers where cheap spokes means you need to use more material.) That said, a thicker spoke lends worse qualities to a wheel build. Butted spokes make for better wheels, as their elasticity lends to longer fatigue life of a wheel. If you want to learn all about it, pick up "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt. A great wheel info. resource.

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Old 03-04-22, 01:23 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
This.
We're talking about a 1998 Diamondback Mt bike. Its a $200 bike at best.
Some over thinking. No one can tell you whether any given wheel is "better" or "stronger" beyond the general, more spokes, better spokes, heavy duty rim, properly tensioned results in a stronger, more trouble free wheel. No one can take into account your riding style, road conditions, and other factors that can prolong the life of a wheel.

Or you buy a $100 used mountain bike on C/L or marketplace, use the wheel off it and have a whole bike worth of spare parts.
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/a...440929483.html
Hi dedhed!

Why did a mechanic tell me my Shimano Deore XT FH-M770 rear wheel hub was "nothing short of awesome"? I don't see anything with this hub that looks phenomenal after watching a YouTube tutorial of another Deore XT but a somewhat different model. It just looks standard to me, very basic. Also the blow-out diagram of my hub looks much more complex than in the video. the website won't let me give links as they reject my posting if I try. See the diagram of my hub at your post #55 . Any advice is much appreciated. I want to take mine apart to see what condition it is in. Does my model need re-greasing once a year? What if I build a new wheel, something I've never done before... Can I save a lot by buying the rim and spokes, overhauling my M770 then once it's together have a pro do the truing part of it? It seems like it's a big deal to know the length of the spokes, something I've never done. I wonder if that "FS" first shop if I could pay the mechanic to give me what he figured I'd need for spoke length as he kept that printout and someone here said he probably did as that is part of the paid work of building a wheel. He said he was going to do something like a "4 cross over" type of lacing. Also would it make a difference in spoke length if I bought all double butted spokes online and any of the hub parts I might need, and the rim? I remember he said he was going to use straight plain stainless steel spokes, but I think I'd do better with double butted. Also I could have a mechanic do the final adjusting of the bearing cups etc on my hub once I rebuild it. Just all a thought. Do you have a favorite parts outlet to buy from?

Thanks!
Winfred

Last edited by winfred0000; 03-04-22 at 01:29 PM. Reason: found the right post #55 for needed diagram
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Old 03-04-22, 01:52 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by winfred0000 View Post
...I didn't know at my weight it means then having to use only the 4030 Cro-Mo frames... I might have that gastric bypass surgery... The thing is I'm 68 and with my Bucket List I want to go around the world and take several years to do it... So you buy a cheaper wheel, loosen all the spokes, then tighten them again...Why do you bother to take the wheel apart...
For me ChroMo was the way to go as I could not afford a good Aluminum Frame so I built up and rode an 80s UNIVEGA till I got down to 250.

As a medical provider I have seen some remarkable results with Banding and Gastric Bypass. You should note that it is a hard and prolonged recovery time for most people. If you can get to 250 on your own, and stay below 250, it might not be worth it.

You should not have to rebuild a machine built wheel but I do. I first go over the rim with a magnifying glass and check its round. I then check spoke tension looking for odd ball tensions. I also check the dish. On my older bikes I usually have to re-dish the wheel to accommodate older derailleurs. But also note that there have been more than a few Machine Built Wheels I have gotten that were Spot On...
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Old 03-04-22, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by winfred0000 View Post
Hi dedhed!

Why did a mechanic tell me my Shimano Deore XT FH-M770 rear wheel hub was "nothing short of awesome"? I don't see anything with this hub that looks phenomenal after watching a YouTube tutorial of another Deore XT but a somewhat different model. It just looks standard to me, very basic. Also the blow-out diagram of my hub looks much more complex than in the video. the website won't let me give links as they reject my posting if I try. See the diagram of my hub at your post #55 . Any advice is much appreciated. I want to take mine apart to see what condition it is in. Does my model need re-greasing once a year? What if I build a new wheel, something I've never done before... Can I save a lot by buying the rim and spokes, overhauling my M770 then once it's together have a pro do the truing part of it? It seems like it's a big deal to know the length of the spokes, something I've never done. I wonder if that "FS" first shop if I could pay the mechanic to give me what he figured I'd need for spoke length as he kept that printout and someone here said he probably did as that is part of the paid work of building a wheel. He said he was going to do something like a "4 cross over" type of lacing. Also would it make a difference in spoke length if I bought all double butted spokes online and any of the hub parts I might need, and the rim? I remember he said he was going to use straight plain stainless steel spokes, but I think I'd do better with double butted. Also I could have a mechanic do the final adjusting of the bearing cups etc on my hub once I rebuild it. Just all a thought. Do you have a favorite parts outlet to buy from?

Thanks!
Winfred
Since I saw your reply, I figured I'd chime in again. The Deore XT hub is high quality, regardless of what you can see. Bearing quality is excellent. Good seals. High tolerances, better bearings. Maybe a forged hub shell? Not sure. Regardless, if cared for, it should last almost indefinitely. I have several that are 30 years old and still performing flawlessly.

All cup and cone hubs should be overhauled periodically. Once a year is a good frequency, but not many people actually stick to a strict schedule. It also depends on conditions. If riding in rain and mud every time, then more frequent overhaul might be needed. I always replace original bearings with grade 20 or 25 replacements. This almost always improves bearing life and smoothness. Definitely can't hurt!

Yes, you can source the spokes yourself. But you need to know every specific dimension to the millimeter. Rim ERD (effective rim diameter), hub flange and center-to-flange dimensions, as well as drilling (36) and cross pattern. I don't think you NEED to go four-cross. Usually, people match the cross already built on a hub. Not a big deal, but it can matter. And sometimes 4X overlaps too far over adjacent spokes to offer any advantage. Depends on the hub and other factors. Either way, be sure to build in the orginal spoke pattern as the hub was built with. Symetric vs. Asymetric with pulling and pushing spokes in the same holes as the originals, as well as which side they enter/exit from. The elbow dents the hub flange, so you want them back in the same depressions from the original build. Then you can utilize any of the many online spoke calculators out there. I used DT/Swiss's.

It's a lot of work building your first wheel. Especially without a truing stand, dishing tool and tension gauge. It would be worth the $80 to have it done well by an experienced builder. But I don't mean to dissuade you from giving it the old college try! It's just that wheel building is a challenge that many struggle to get right even with individual help. I know it took me several builds to become comfortable.

Glad you picked butted spokes. Worth it. Yes, you can get the wheel laced up and have the builder do the final tension, dish, radial and lateral truing. Be sure you lubricate the spoke threads and nipples when building. Boiled linseed oil is the cheapest and easiest option. Just be careful with the oily rags! They will spontaneously combust if not dealt with properly!!!

I'd overhaul the hub first to know it's worth building around. It would be a shame to order all the parts and then find out the hub isn't suitable. Not very likely, but it's sensible to work on the hub first.

Good luck.
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Old 03-04-22, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by zandoval View Post
For me ChroMo was the way to go as I could not afford a good Aluminum Frame so I built up and rode an 80s UNIVEGA till I got down to 250.


As a medical provider I have seen some remarkable results with Banding and Gastric Bypass. You should note that it is a hard and prolonged recovery time for most people. If you can get to 250 on your own, and stay below 250, it might not be worth it.


You should not have to rebuild a machine built wheel but I do. I first go over the rim with a magnifying glass and check its round. I then check spoke tension looking for odd ball tensions. I also check the dish. On my older bikes I usually have to re-dish the wheel to accommodate older derailleurs. But also note that there have been more than a few Machine Built Wheels I have gotten that were Spot On...

Hi Zandoval and anyone else here!


Thanks again for taking the time! Do you mean by "medical provider" that you own a health insurance company? 250lbs would be a record for me as that would mean 36lbs from what I was, yet 31 from where I am now. But great advice! They quit doing banding and now it's gastric sleeve or the Rouny bypass. I think that's the right spelling. I'm thinking of the RNY bypass, but like you say better to avoid it.


Do you mean by "machine built wheel" that the hub is brand new? I mean if I go the rebuild it myself route, meaning buying the rim, spokes, and overhauling or inspecting the inner parts of my present Shimano Deore XT 36H hub to maybe save the price of the hub. Some say that particular Shimano hub is notorious for breaking down, so maybe foolish if I think of still using it. The double walled wheel I have I bought used 1 1/2 yrs ago. In one year's time I broke 2 spokes. This last time my wheel went way off true, so far off I was told I need a new wheel. So I can't use the old rim, nor the old spokes. Some also said my brand of rim was a problematic one too, an Alex Rims Adventurer 2. I might get double or maybe triple butted spokes.


I'm not 100% decided on what way to go, build myself, have a shop build it, or buy a new wheel. I don't have any building experience other than in 1989 while taking care of my mother in my north woods hometown. I mail ordered all the parts, built a rear wheel for my road bike, and had the Schwin shop true it. That was so long ago I can't really count myself as being knowledgeable. The second shop I went to on Monday said they were busy and would email their estimate, only now Friday is almost over and no estimate. The mechanic on front counter duty also said in my case he thinks that I should have a "touring wheel", which I don't know what that means exactly... a strong wheel. Do you know what a "touring wheel" is... it doesn't sound strong ha! If I buy a whole wheel I'll still have the shop check tension etc as I don't trust myself checking the tension.


If I build a wheel myself I'll have them do the truing part. I for sure want a stronger wheel, so if I build it will be double or triple budded spokes I guess... Do you like triple budded spokes? It's hard because IMO this shop mainly focuses on their more profitable customers. They are in an upper middle class and upper class area and know more about the newer bikes. They are also busy with downhill or cross country skis and snow boards, kayaks, and a lot of other things. I wait with my 1998 Diamond Back mountain bike alongside people flying from Minnesota to the Rockies for a ski weekend ha! They took 4 1/2 hrs to put on my Portland Design Works fenders, then once mounted told me they were fenders for the fat tire bikes and they took longer because of it. So they sold me the wrong fenders, mounted them, then told me ha! They seem to not care as much about me I think because I'm limping along low budget. I don't own a car and use my bike every day. What route do you think is best? If I order the parts can I make a wheel that would be a lot more expensive and stronger and better quality than if I bought a new wheel, or had the shop build it? It's dark now and with my wobbly wheel I've go to do a cardio workout ride ha!


Carpe Diem!

Winfred
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Old 03-04-22, 08:55 PM
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Winfred - You are going to end up buying another wheel. If you are going to build your own wheel then geting a cheap one. Consider this a modern day prophecy.

But please start setting up your work area to build a wheel cause eventually you should. Especially if ya like working with your hands and figuring out the technical rhythm of wheel assembly. A DIY wheel stand can be assembled for less than 50 USD and a cheap Chinesium wheel stand will cost even less. You will need a spoke tension meter for about 20 USD. And of course a spoke wrench. You can make a dish tool out of Card Board. Finding a suitable Rim and Spokes then waiting for delivery is just an Ebay challenge, but all in all building a wheel can be Fun Fun Fun...

By the time you get your wheel assembled you will not need someone else to true it for ya.
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Old 03-04-22, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by winfred0000 View Post
Hi dedhed!

Why did a mechanic tell me my Shimano Deore XT FH-M770 rear wheel hub was "nothing short of awesome"? He's a salesman trying to sell a job? I don't see anything with this hub that looks phenomenal after watching a YouTube tutorial of another Deore XT but a somewhat different model. It just looks standard to me, very basic. Nothing wrong with XT level stuff. But... Have you done any maintenance or know the history of it? Also the blow-out diagram of my hub looks much more complex than in the video. the website won't let me give links as they reject my posting if I try. See the diagram of my hub at your post #55 . Any advice is much appreciated. I want to take mine apart to see what condition it is in. Does my model need re-greasing once a year? What if I build a new wheel, something I've never done before... Can I save a lot by buying the rim and spokes, overhauling my M770 then once it's together have a pro do the truing part of it? Its generally not cost effective to purchase the parts and build a wheel one off over buying a prebuilt wheel. Especially for someone never having done it. MSRP on the Cliffhanger is $104 for the rim and figure about $1 ea for spokes, then your time and taking it for true & tension cost using your hub. Not to mention supply chain issues just getting stuff. It seems like it's a big deal to know the length of the spokes, something I've never done. Another way you can screw up and have a bunch of spokes you can't use given a rear wheel is often 2 different sizes on each side. I wonder if that "FS" first shop if I could pay the mechanic to give me what he figured I'd need for spoke length as he kept that printout and someone here said he probably did as that is part of the paid work of building a wheel. He said he was going to do something like a "4 cross over" type of lacing. Also would it make a difference in spoke length if I bought all double butted spokes online and any of the hub parts I might need, and the rim? I remember he said he was going to use straight plain stainless steel spokes, but I think I'd do better with double butted. Also I could have a mechanic do the final adjusting of the bearing cups etc on my hub once I rebuild it. Just all a thought. Do you have a favorite parts outlet to buy from? I shop price, need, and availability bot local and on line,
See above
While I'm all about DIY and encourage it, I also know that some things are over my head/skills/confidence level/tools/time consumption. I personally have never built a wheel, nor do I plan to. I know what is involved and have yet to not find a pre built wheel that met my needs after a proper tensioning.
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Old 03-04-22, 09:32 PM
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If you haven't already, you should at least read the Sheldon Brown article an Wheelbuilding, see the sticky on top of the Mechanics subforum and navigate to Wheels. This covers the basics of wheel design and some very useful insights. Some of the info is a little dated but applicable still.

The Sheldon site cover many things about bikes repair and a great place to learn for people of all levels.

Also use the link to the Shimano site and search the tech docs. for manuals of component installation & maintenance. Your XT hub is a little different from what you may see on youtube videos, it uses different bearings, cones & locknut, and an alum. axle.

You really should check if other bike shops in your area can help you find a good wheelbuilder who will be able to work with you to get a suitable wheel built.

Anyone on here have a recommendation for the OP? Bloomington, Minnesota area, not sure what part
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Old 03-07-22, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by KCT1986 View Post
If you haven't already, you should at least read the Sheldon Brown article an Wheelbuilding, see the sticky on top of the Mechanics subforum and navigate to Wheels. This covers the basics of wheel design and some very useful insights. Some of the info is a little dated but applicable still.


The Sheldon site cover many things about bikes repair and a great place to learn for people of all levels.


Also use the link to the Shimano site and search the tech docs. for manuals of component installation & maintenance. Your XT hub is a little different from what you may see on youtube videos, it uses different bearings, cones & locknut, and an alum. axle.


You really should check if other bike shops in your area can help you find a good wheelbuilder who will be able to work with you to get a suitable wheel built.


Anyone on here have a recommendation for the OP? Bloomington, Minnesota area, not sure what part

Hi KCT1986!


Thanks again for responding!! The bike coop I've gone to for about 3 years now said if they are too busy many times they have their wheels built very close to them in Bloomington, MN. A week ago today a mechanic at that coop said he was going to email my estimate for them to build a rear wheel. They so far haven't answered... I didn't want to ask them who that wheelbuilder is because I thought it might be apropos to ask and maybe that builder only builds wholesale for certain businesses and not individuals.


The Bloomington builder is actually a specialty wheel building company that has grown to have clients from all over the world. That's all they do is build wheels. My build would still be $60 through the coop but maybe that's a special price and only if they are overloaded. It would be nice if that specialty builder would do an estimate for me, parts and all.


Also I'm thinking of buying the parts myself and lace all the spokes and just have them true it. Could I save a lot of money that way? Last Monday I went to 2 shops, the coop and one other. The other gave me a print out and that guy said HU0751 Shimano FH-TX500 36H rear hub. I presently have a 7 speed cassette, a Shimano FH-M770 36h hub I might take apart with Youtube tutorial and see if it needs repair. Several others (most) say it's a hub notorious for breaking down, yet some praise it... so maybe I shouldn't mess with it. Do you think I could get a better quality wheel for less cost if I do that? A better quality than if I bought an already built wheel?


That shop with the printout said "RM 8366 Sun Ringle CR-18 Rim - 26:, Black/Silver, 36H, Clincher". He wouldn't give me what he said was the spokes I need and another here at the forum said that's because that search and measuring is part of the labor cost. I don't know why he did that part of it because I was only inquiring about was a "free" estimate, yet he really did apply pressure for me to have him build the wheel. I have a Diamond Back mountain bike from 1998 that I've done improvements on, one being through a community bench type shop that since closed I changed to a V brake system. I also bought Portland Design Works metal fender the coop installed, wrongly so even by a PDW staff person whom I sent 19 photos to. Tha's all another story and just going with it as is. I also bought 2 wheels a shop installed for $313 over a year ago. It was that used from wheel that failed. The front seems okay but only 32H as I thought it was 36. It is a Mustange ERD 542 with a "Surly" hub that has no parts number on it. Another mechanic said it was a very good wheel.


He said labor is $60 (same as the coop had said), parts would be $120 and $5 miscellaneous and totaling $185. They say in the estimate printout to go to the "DT Swiss online spoke calculator for straight pull spokes." I asked about double butted spokes and he said they weren't stronger and the straight pull stainless steel spokes are very strong. He said if I wanted double butted the price could be $72 alone for the spokes. I tried to find that world renowned builder in Bloomington with no luck. What route would you go if you were me... a low budget bike commuter who doesn't own a car and rides his bike every day and also hopes to camp and pull a CoHo X trailer? I weight 280lbs and at times carry 60lbs of groceries. Thanks for all!



Cheers!

Winfred

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Old 03-07-22, 06:30 AM
  #65  
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The specialty wheel builder is probably QBP which is based in Bloomington.

Large established wholesale supplier to bike shops.

https://www.qbp.com/
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Old 03-07-22, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
The specialty wheel builder is probably QBP which is based in Bloomington.


Large established wholesale supplier to bike shops.


https://www.qbp.com/
Hi dedhed!


Thanks for taking the time! I wasn't looking for wholesale bike parts because I'm not at the buyer level to purchase wholesale. I was looking for an internationally known shop in Bloomington, MN that all they do is build bicycle wheels. It doesn't look like QBP builds bike wheels, that they are strictly a wholesale parts distributor to retailers. Unless someone else here knows I might have to just ask the coop where this shop is and either they'll say they build only for bike shops or they build for individuals too.


I just didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings at the coop like I was avoiding their service. I'm hoping they will still do their estimate and sell the parts to me, but I'm not sure if I could go to a consumer parts dealer online and buy my parts through them cheaper if I decided to build my wheel myself or not. I didn't want to bother the coop about their not doing their estimate, but now a week later I feel like I've been forgotten or they're maybe avoiding me as the manager was not nice about their selling me fat tire fenders, and not telling me until after they installed the wrong fenders. I decided not to make any waves and let it be, but the manager seemed angry even though I wasn't being accusational in any way.


I will have to call them today as other times the same mechanic who has helped me forgets. He has forgotten more than once as I think maybe he is very busy and it's easy to forget. They also don't have voice mail to the mechanics. Right now I'm relying on one person who said when she sees him (that would mean if they happen to work the same day) she'll remember to tell him I sent 2 emails and to do my estimate. Also for some reason she said they will not tell a customer the days when any employee works. I suppose that rule is so there's no favoritism of one employee over the other. It also might be because the rule somehow protects the employee's privacy or something like that.


I thought why not have that specialty shop build it for the same labor price of $60, but maybe it's not possible. Also if I have the coop build it from scratch just have them do everything for $60... but maybe there is an online consumer parts dealer I could buy the parts from cheaper, or save a lot and just have the shop align the wheel once I put it all together. It just would've been nice to find that wheel builder shop. I do several keyword searches and don't find it and maybe they don't want to be easy to find as they would maybe get too many calls from the general public. Thanks for your help!


Cheers!

Winfred
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Old 03-07-22, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
See above

While I'm all about DIY and encourage it, I also know that some things are over my head/skills/confidence level/tools/time consumption. I personally have never built a wheel, nor do I plan to. I know what is involved and have yet to not find a pre built wheel that met my needs after a proper tensioning.

Hi!

I just started thinking I could do like I did back in '89 when I moved back to my small hometown to take care of my parents. There was no internet so I mail ordered all the parts for a rear wheel for what then was my road bike. I weighed maybe 190 or 200lbs then and was breaking too many spokes. I went by instructions and assembled and laced the spokes, but maybe that wasn't as difficult as you say nowadays one side could have a different spoke length than the other. I could still do it but hope I can find a YouTube video that specializes in wheels that use 2 different spoke lengths.


Once assembled I took it to a general Schwinn bike shop in my hometown to have it trued. Fortunately there was a new owner who knew how to true wheels. I forgot how much I paid but seemed he charged just the time for him to true it which was less than also paying for them to build it. I think I had him adjust the shifter too. He didn't complain he had to re-lace it.


I'm just thinking if I get the parts cheap but very nice quality maybe I could have the very best wheel as compared to buying one ready made or also having a shop build it. That way I could solve the problem of having something very good at the least cost. I'm thinking of taking my existing rear hub apart to see if it's in okay condition and rebuild it. Some say the Shimano XT FH-M700 is a problematic hub, but some praise it. Maybe I'll get what that first shop had in their estimate, an "HU0751 Shimano FH-TX500 rear hub Threaded x 135mm, Rim Brake, HG10, Black 36H" that's for a 7 speed cassette or for an 8 speed and up where as you say I'd have to put in a spacer. I'd have to have the shop install it as I'm not good at re-adjusting the derailleur. I don't think I'll need any special tools as a year ago I bought that tool that has the short piece of chain on it to take off my gear cluster. I'm not sure what tool I'll need to get that "cassette" part off as I'll need to look inside of the old hub.


Top of the Day!

Winfred
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Old 03-07-22, 07:49 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by winfred0000 View Post
Thanks for taking the time! I wasn't looking for wholesale bike parts because I'm not at the buyer level to purchase wholesale. I was looking for an internationally known shop in Bloomington, MN that all they do is build bicycle wheels. It doesn't look like QBP builds bike wheels, that they are strictly a wholesale parts distributor to retailers. Unless someone else here knows I might have to just ask the coop where this shop is and either they'll say they build only for bike shops or they build for individuals too.
QBP absolutely builds wheels for their wholesale customers, but doesn't do retail. FWIW they also own Surly brand like your hub. QBP and Olympic are pretty much where most US LBS get their parts. I don't know if they're the people you're shop is talking about, but they are very large in the bike parts business.
In fact they have openings.
https://lensa.com/wheels-production-...720616dd377581
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Old 03-08-22, 12:25 PM
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Hi dedhed!

I found their website, QBP, the other day and didn't see where they specialize in wheel building but saw that they are a major parts dealer. Other mechanics over the years have said all shops here in Minneapolis/St.Paul basically order from the same outlet. I just didn't know where they were and just yesterday was told by the coop shop the wheel building business they go to, which thanks to your input must be them, only builds for bike shops and not the general public.

The coop mechanic over the phone said there was a line waiting and couldn't elaborate, even on a Monday as I suppose it's because we still have a lot of snow and skiers. The coop guy said they are thinking in my case of either an ebike wheel, or a "touring" wheel as best. Do you think that's a good idea in my case? I can't remember, but I think I get a dividend on parts from them but maybe not, so I would buy my parts from them. If that's not the case then maybe I'd search online to find maybe lower cost new parts.

I'm doing a compilation of all the generous and cogent help here to have on my hard drive, and condensed so I can derive some kind of summation to this. In the mean time I limp along with my warped wheel and don't use my rear brakes. I buy fewer groceries at a time. It seems I'm leaning toward what I did back when I was in my small hometown and will build the wheel myself and have a shop align it. Do you think that the aligning part of building the wheel is like 75% of the time? The first shop I went to said it would be foolish to build it myself thinking I was going to save money and that most of the job is the aligning part of it.

Thanks again for all of your input and patience with me!

Carpe Diem!
Winfred

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Old 03-08-22, 02:13 PM
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Most of the labor of building a wheel comes after the lacing stage, so I wouldnít expect to save money by starting the build yourself, though it could be useful for learning purposes. Generally at the shops Iíve worked at, we would charge the same labor price in this situation, partially because there are often mistakes that need to be fixed in the lacing process.

In general, you may be overthinking this whole project. In my experience with large riders who carry a lot and use their bike as their primary transportation, you will be tough on any components and may have to replace wheels more often than other riders. Your best bet is to use a good, strong wheel. I think you can accomplish this either by having a shop build one, or buying pre built and having a shop check spoke tension, with little practical difference between the 2 options. I say do whatever is faster and minimize the time youíre limping along on a bent rim!
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Old 03-08-22, 06:17 PM
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Probably could have already had a Velomine wheel in your hand, they're only in Illinois.
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Old 03-08-22, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Probably could have already had a Velomine wheel in your hand, they're only in Illinois.
Hi dedhed, or Anyone Else!

Something happened and I got a warning 25 replies and I think they will cut me off! I was writing to you at the same time you were writing to me. I understand if you don't have time as it is a combination of things that have a bearing on my decision. Basically my present bike is pretty good. I've done over several years modifications that are pretty nice like my Portland Design Works fenders (the coop messed up putting the wrong fat tire version on but better than no fenders for sure) and put in V brakes and shifters, new derailleur, nice Deore front derailleur, nice Kool Stop insertable brake pad style of brakes. I only have room in my little apartment for one bike. This is the post below I was writing at the same time and doesn't mean I wasn't listening to your great advice. That bike you linked to with Craig's List says it was taken down so it must have sold. Really, I think I have a pretty nice bike. I understand if you don't have time for my email below this. I just hope they don't cut me off yet... so taking my chances. I describe better my bike plans as to what I hope my goals are with my bike decision.and my life.

Hi dedhed, and Anyone Else!

I thought I'd use less space and not do a "quote" reply this time but it did anyways. Not sure what I did and hope they still keep this thread open. My email notice was sounding like they might end this but I hope they don’t. It's a big decision for me, but I can see what you mean about thinking too much. With your response I might not complete creating my compilation of responses. This is a major influence where you also say the main part of wheel building is actually the final alignment. I'm retired and on a low budget so it magnifies expenses. Really glad I don't own a car anymore, since 2017 when I junked my old Subaru with 288,000 miles on it. 16 years of my adult life have been bicycle only, except taking the city bus, but 10 years of it was when the city buses didn't have a front bumper bike rack. I was much younger and over 100lbs less, and no gout attacks like I'm having right now as I write this ha! Being retired, I'm a more "busy" person than others think and right now working with a free-lance editor and getting my trilogy (I can only afford to have her do the first and last chapters ha!) I've been working on for way too long finished. Also I'm getting more of my music out on YouTube, writing and my own original music (some covers). It’s all part of my other bucket list of "leaving something behind".

I quit watching TV in 1968 but before that I liked the TV series "Run for Your Life" with actor Ben Gazzara, an ongoing story about a man with a terminal illness who is doing all the adventuring he can before his time. I’m kind of like that, only life is terminal ha! I've got to keep on track with other things than wheel building I guess and it seems I won't be able to save much money if I do it myself, right? So in this case it is tempting to buy a pre-built wheel.

It's funny as in my case, in this "afternoon" of my life, I feel like things are accelerating rather than slowing down ha! They say at the coop an ebike wheel or a touring wheel. I might just take my present bike on my Dharma Bum journey and grin and bear it, slowly do the part from Minnesota straight to the west coast and travel down the coast highway to Tiajuana then ride down the Baja to the tip, to La Paz, then take the ferry to Mazatlan on mainland Mexico and if I had to on the way give it all away except my camping stuff and haul it via maybe a 2 wheeled luggage rack if I had to and keep on to South America, SE Asia, Africa... Maybe I'd like to buy a pre-built wheel that is good and will last longer and hoping because I own a mountain bike the rims will be relatively stronger than owning a road bike like I used to. I suppose it means a $300 wheel or more to really get a stronger wheel right? I see now it's like either the following:

1. buy a pre-built wheel either an ebike wheel or touring wheel or…

2. Buy the parts and build the wheel myself maybe costing much less and spending money on better parts than I'd ever find in a pre-built wheel that would cost a lot more, right? Is buying a used “White” brand of hub, because they are made so well, a good idea? Maybe there’s a White hub with 7 speed cassette at a reduced price because not many have 7 speed any more, right? Despite that possibility… I think I would save if I take my 7 speed cassette Shimano Deore XT FH-M770 apart as I want to be sure it is in good shape. I think it’s better to take it apart and go by more than just if it feels smooth or not (isn't that the best way to know) and no matter what put in new bearings. Also my SRAM gear cluster is in very good shape and at the 12T - 34T ratio I like. That would mean doing the hub inspection and possible rebuild at home and then if the hub is good save the hub price and get it all built by the coop shop. Wouldn't my doing the hub part of it save me money? I might if it's iffy put it back together with new bearings and donate it or save it as a spare to use at last resort if I'm in some remote corner of the world and I break down. Or…

3. Either re-use my present hub, save that way, (or a used White hub) and then have the coop build a much stronger wheel from scratch and hope they send it to that world renowned wheel builder as they do it for the same $60 labor price. Also when the coop said yesterday they suggest a touring or ebike wheel that they would do a "4 cross" type of lacing. What do you think of that?

To really be able to do this journey I have to have a well built ebike. If I have pedal assist and I'm about to ride say for a 10 hour day and pull a CoHo X trailer. I’ll carry all my camping gear... basically all I need to live independently, and with a good Hilleberg 4 season tent, and see the world that way. I mean I'd be leaving my comfort zone and going literally for years. It means a lot more money invested as good ebikes like a Riese & Muller cargo bike that they claim is maintenance free is an $11,000 bike, so some other cheaper one and deal with break-downs as they come. I saw a cargo ebike at the coop for it seemed $3,200 with a good Bosch mid drive motor, but problem being it is chain rather than belt driven, another story…

This is long and if you don’t have time I fully understand. I am grateful for your help.

Carpe Diem!

Winfred

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Old 03-13-22, 03:19 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by zandoval View Post
Winfred - You are going to end up buying another wheel. If you are going to build your own wheel then geting a cheap one. Consider this a modern day prophecy.

But please start setting up your work area to build a wheel cause eventually you should. Especially if ya like working with your hands and figuring out the technical rhythm of wheel assembly. A DIY wheel stand can be assembled for less than 50 USD and a cheap Chinesium wheel stand will cost even less. You will need a spoke tension meter for about 20 USD. And of course a spoke wrench. You can make a dish tool out of Card Board. Finding a suitable Rim and Spokes then waiting for delivery is just an Ebay challenge, but all in all building a wheel can be Fun Fun Fun...

By the time you get your wheel assembled you will not need someone else to true it for ya.
QUOTE=zandoval;22428825]Winfred - You are going to end up buying another wheel. If you are going to build your own wheel then geting a cheap one. Consider this a modern day prophecy.

But please start setting up your work area to build a wheel cause eventually you should. Especially if ya like working with your hands and figuring out the technical rhythm of wheel assembly. A DIY wheel stand can be assembled for less than 50 USD and a cheap Chinesium wheel stand will cost even less. You will need a spoke tension meter for about 20 USD. And of course a spoke wrench. You can make a dish tool out of Card Board. Finding a suitable Rim and Spokes then waiting for delivery is just an Ebay challenge, but all in all building a wheel can be Fun Fun Fun...

By the time you get your wheel assembled you will not need someone else to true it for ya.[/QUOTE]

Hi Zandoval, and All!
Sorry if I'm being a pest about my subject. I think I made a few people here upset with all my many questions and convoluted ways of trying to figure out what to do with a new rear wheel, a rebuild, or DIY route. There is no option I can find where I can in general post to my own thread where I address all, so I thought I'd write to you. I understand if I've been either not at all or too slow in perceiving things. Here goes...

I also wanted to say to you that I don't trust myself doing the truing part of wheel building. Long ago, in fact in 1989 when I was back in my small hometown taking care of my aging parents, I was in a situation with my road bike (I could ride one then as I was 100lbs lighter than I am now ha!) where I was breaking too many spokes and nowhere to go other than a typical Schwinn mainstream type of bike shop there. I mail ordered all the parts and carefully built a very strong wheel with a double walled rim. I took it to that Schwinn shop and had them true it. In those days having that shop true it was much less than if I had them build the wheel, where nowadays 2 shops locally in Minneapolis said the truing part was most of the labor, not the building. They said it would be a waste to build it myself if I was going to have them true it. After my parents transcended I remained in my hometown for 3 more years up to 2009. That wheel stayed just as true from 1989 to when I donated it to GoodWill in 2008. I couldn't even sell it in the garage sale for almost nothing ha! Whoever eventually got that bike got a good deal as it had good parts on it.

Another person here so kindly suggested what I found to be a very good source, "Velomine". They have a very strong wheel for $119.

https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...oducts_id=6333

I emailed the owner and he said he sold hundreds of those wheels and not one returned with problems! He was very kind to say that he could build my wheel with triple butted spokes if the rim and axle were still good for the same price as his wheel, for $119. I'd forgotten a mechanic said I had a dent in my rim 8 cm long and 2mm deep. He then said he could check to see if my axle was good still and suggested a $40 or a $80 rim he sells that would add to the price. I thought more and decided I'd mail the axle to him and let him decide which rim would be better. So now in the end I am going a more expensive route. It's just that this rear wheel problem has held me up so much it's worth it to me to get an even stronger wheel than the $119 one above. The rims are 26 inch and...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/17500217982...634e4ef5963fd3

or one of his cliffhanger rims for $80 I can't find.

He said he's weeks behind with building wheels. He was very patient with my questions. So I took my Shimano FH-M770 hub off my wheel and mailed it to him 3 day priority last Friday. I'll see what happens. Any input from you or anyone here is much appreciated. I hope my journey with this helps others here too! Thanks for all the phenomenal help I've had here!

Kindest Regards,
Winfred
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Old 03-18-22, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bboy314 View Post
Most of the labor of building a wheel comes after the lacing stage, so I wouldn’t expect to save money by starting the build yourself, though it could be useful for learning purposes. Generally at the shops I’ve worked at, we would charge the same labor price in this situation, partially because there are often mistakes that need to be fixed in the lacing process.

In general, you may be overthinking this whole project. In my experience with large riders who carry a lot and use their bike as their primary transportation, you will be tough on any components and may have to replace wheels more often than other riders. Your best bet is to use a good, strong wheel. I think you can accomplish this either by having a shop build one, or buying pre built and having a shop check spoke tension, with little practical difference between the 2 options. I say do whatever is faster and minimize the time you’re limping along on a bent rim!
Hi bboy314!

Thanks so much for your response. I hope you get this as my new rear wheel I spent a lot on comes tomorrow. No one is answering me any more here and sorry to all for my being so verbose and so many questions. I'm not a very good writer and try, but I guess this is all complex for me and need guidance as in my case a new rear wheel is a big decision. I gave in and had an out-of-state special pro wheel building shop rebuild a wheel that cost $240 including the $20 to ship it, also there was no sales tax... so a $220 wheel -- but labor was $60, so really a $160 wheel.

I tried to re-use my former hub and mailed it to the builder. I bought my problematic rear wheel used, so I learned my lesson the hard way as usual where one never knows the history of a used wheel, so there went $150 I paid for it. The builder said the "flange" on my used Shimano XT FH M770 hub looked like it was re-built or re-used at least two times going by the way the spoke holes looked. You could see where spokes wore little dents or grooves in two directions like it had been used more than once. He said re-using the hub I ran a slight risk of the "flange" cracking. I didn't want any risk so for $22 more than the cost of a $30 hub rebuild I decided to get their $52 hub. They decided to use their "BK Shimano M8000 XT QR CL disc rear hub" meaning it's a disc brake hub. Is that a very good hub? He said even though it's designed for a disk brake, and I have V brakes, that I have nothing to worry about, that it will work fine. He also said there is a big gap between that $52 hub and the next one better in quality which would be at least $100. He also said a tubeless rim for my clincher tires is fine too, no difference.

All they said in the very brief parts list that it is a "machined sidewall rim". I remember in phone conversation that it's a Cliffhanger $84 rim and in the great stampede they never said what model of rim, so that's all I know. He also said it will work fine with my mountain bike tires. I weigh 275lbs so I ride a mountain bike for commuting as I break too many spokes with a road bike. I wanted the "Force" brand triple butted spokes but he said the warehouse they order from in Nevada was out of them. He then decided to use some double butted "Silver Sapim Strong" spokes he later said were just as good and are even the spokes Phil Wood uses in his wheels. It was too late to ask if he could try another warehouse because by the next morning when I called, and I had talked to him about 2PM the previous day, that he was in the final truing phase and it was too late. I had said no pressure for time if they needed more time but seemed he wanted to get it over with, so I have to admit I felt bad that way and just pray it all comes out okay. Also too it was at the same time nice of them as I'm a customer who rides almost 7 days a week as I don't own a car and commute by bike.

They were probably too busy and never answered my questions about when the new wheel arrives. It's coming FedEx tomorrow. I've asked the builder if it's a simple just put my clincher tube tire onto the new tubeless rim, put the 7 speed cassette on, then clamp the wheel on and go. Is it where maybe a shop needs to adjust the derailleur shifting, the brakes etc.? Also can I resume normal activity that for me is hauling about 60lbs of groceries, going on long cross country rides etc right away? Also how soon will I need to have the spokes re-tensioned, and the brand new hub re-adjusted? Sadly they didn't answer when I emailed about that, but I think they are highly rated very busy builders. Now it's the weekend so I'm trying to plan ahead. I also now will be putting on my summer tire which for me is a Schwalbe Marathon Plus 2.0 x 26 tube tire, so nothing to worry about? Sorry about all these questions. I know almost nothing about bikes so it's the only way I know to go. So many have been very helpful here and I'm very grateful for their patience and magnanimous deeds. Over the years I have done many random acts of kindness for others too, so it goes around.

Sincerely,
Winfred

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Old 03-19-22, 04:35 AM
  #75  
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pioneer Valley
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Those Sapim spokes and XT hub are high quality parts. I assume the Cliffhanger rim is a Velocity Cliffhanger, also high quality. These are all components to a good strong wheel. Thereís no issue with using a disc compatible hub or tubeless compatible rim. You will need to install a spacer behind your 7 speed cassette, probably 4mm. The brake and shifting will both need to be adjusted with your new wheel. Iíd probably check tension after 100 miles or so, sooner if you notice any loose spokes or the wheel seems out of true. Ride on!
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