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I broke my 2nd derailleur! what am I doing wrong?

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I broke my 2nd derailleur! what am I doing wrong?

Old 04-26-22, 12:09 PM
  #26  
smd4
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Think it was suggested last go around that you were in over your head. This seems to confirm it. If you want to have a reliable bike you need to find a good shop.
+1 on the need to find a good shop.

Not sure if he's necessarily in over his head, but he needs to 1) get educated on what he's doing--and why (i.e., read, watch videos, etc.), and 2) tap into his inner mechanic. The one that would say, "instead of me putting the derailleur hanger into a bench vice, standing on a stool and torqueing the entire frame to bend one small piece, maybe it's easier to keep the frame still and just straighten the part that's bent? In a manner where I could actually--even if just visually--determine its alignment."

As a corollary, we've got to get rid of the part of him that wants to say "How else would I do it??" With responses like this, he's showing he can't (or seemingly doesn't want to) think outside the box. And with bike mechanics, this is something you need to do a lot.
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Old 04-26-22, 03:35 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
It's essential if you plan on working on your own bike that you have a decent stand. There are several available, some fairly inexpensive.

If I didn't have the proper tools, I would use a large adjustable wrench (i.e., a Crescent wrench). You should be able to get a pretty good vertical and horizontal alignment with that. STAY AWAY FROM PLIERS!--especially the "30 lb" version.

You can get a derailleur hanger alignment tool for probably the same cost as a good adjustable wrench:

Hanger Alignment Tool

This one will definitely get the job done--and as for as many derailleurs as you seem to be going through, may be a good investment. The fact that it threads in makes it better than an adjustable wrench right off the bat.

And for the love of god, keep that bench vice away from that poor bike frame.
Yes I've got the stand already. That's what got me started on this journey. I'm confused though. How is this tool going to bend my hanger? It's just for alignment right? I DO have a good sized adjustable wrench. Didn't think of that. But that's all they're is? I would have hoped they made something for this presumably common issue
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Old 04-26-22, 03:42 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
+1 on the need to find a good shop.

Not sure if he's necessarily in over his head, but he needs to 1) get educated on what he's doing--and why (i.e., read, watch videos, etc.), and 2) tap into his inner mechanic. The one that would say, "instead of me putting the derailleur hanger into a bench vice, standing on a stool and torqueing the entire frame to bend one small piece, maybe it's easier to keep the frame still and just straighten the part that's bent? In a manner where I could actually--even if just visually--determine its alignment."

As a corollary, we've got to get rid of the part of him that wants to say "How else would I do it??" With responses like this, he's showing he can't (or seemingly doesn't want to) think outside the box. And with bike mechanics, this is something you need to do a lot.
That's not QUITE what I did. I hoisted the vice up on an adjustable stool to my elevated bike on the stand. But still, must connect with "inner mechanic". Most my experience is with vehicles and and other small engines and I'm the best non - mechanic with seemingly no "inner mechanic" I know. Still working on it and prepared to learn some lessons with 3 bikes and whatever I pick up for free out there
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Old 04-26-22, 03:44 PM
  #29  
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Looking into derailleurs, any reason to consider these older styles ones that mount with the axle?
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Old 04-26-22, 04:12 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by juntjoo View Post
I'm confused though. How is this tool going to bend my hanger? It's just for alignment right?
Yes, once itís threaded in, itís used to gently bend the hanger to perfectly vertical. It also features feeler gauges to help tell when you are vertical/parallel.
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Old 04-26-22, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by juntjoo View Post
Looking into derailleurs, any reason to consider these older styles ones that mount with the axle?
If you already have a frame-mounted derailleur hanger, why do you want one built into the derailleur? Things may have changed, but those were always the cheapest derailleurs.
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Old 04-26-22, 04:17 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
Yes, once itís threaded in, itís used to gently bend the hanger to perfectly vertical. It also features feeler gauges to help tell when you are vertical/parallel.
Oh wow, it looks like just a little alignment tool. Doesn't look like it bends metal. I'll take a look into them then
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Old 04-26-22, 04:42 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
If you already have a frame-mounted derailleur hanger, why do you want one built into the derailleur? Things may have changed, but those were always the cheapest derailleurs.
Please elaborate. Idk the answer to your question hence I'm asking.
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Old 04-26-22, 04:55 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Mr. 66 View Post
Check the RJ videos he's got a couple of ways to align the hanger.
....How to straighten a hanger without special tools. (These work OK but difficult to get perfect)
.....How to make your own decent alignment tool.
.....How to use a Park style alignment tool.

RJ's list of very useful vids. RJ The Bike Guy - YouTube YouTube has plenty of vids from other users as well to do just about anything on your bike.
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Old 04-26-22, 05:08 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by juntjoo View Post
Please elaborate. Idk the answer to your question hence I'm asking.
The derailleurs Iím aware of that ďmount to the axleĒ have a built in hangeróthe part that would mount to the axle. The picture you posted shows you already have a hanger as part of your frame. It allows you to hang any derailleurs from it you want (as long as they can handle your gearing). The derailleur pivot bolt screws into the hanger. Your hanger may be (likely is) bent, which misaligns the entire derailleur.
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Old 04-26-22, 05:09 PM
  #36  
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Watch the videos Crankycrank posted...especially that last one.

Last edited by smd4; 04-26-22 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 04-26-22, 05:19 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
Watch the videos Crankycrank posted...especially that last one.
Yeah, whoever suggested him originally I found him and subscribed. Will be going to school

Yeah, my hanger is absolutely bent way more than the first time, so I was thinking this axle derailleur might be helpful, plus cheaper. Gotta get the alignment tool and see what I can do first.

This is how I pay my tuition for my education.
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Old 04-26-22, 05:23 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by juntjoo View Post
Yeah, whoever suggested him originally I found him and subscribed. Will be going to school

Yeah, my hanger is absolutely bent way more than the first time, so I was thinking this axle derailleur might be helpful, plus cheaper. Gotta get the alignment tool and see what I can do first.

This is how I pay my tuition for my education.
Some modern bikes (of which I donít have one, so donít have much experience) have replaceable hangers. But itís easy to realign them if they arenít too far gone.
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Old 04-26-22, 05:29 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by juntjoo View Post
Yes I've got the stand already. That's what got me started on this journey. I'm confused though. How is this tool going to bend my hanger? It's just for alignment right? I DO have a good sized adjustable wrench. Didn't think of that. But that's all they're is? I would have hoped they made something for this presumably common issue
the tool give you leverage to bend, as it screws into the derailer hanger where the derailler would be screwed in, and gives a way to measure and get the hanger aligned straight

Seriously you should look for a bike co-op or siimilar as place to help or learn. Maybe a class if you can find one, Doing wrenching wrong can end up causing pain in if things fail badly

I am guessing that you threw on the derailler that everyone told you not to throw on and this is the result of it not working. I suspect it did not have the needed range and a good chance the chain was too short

what is the size of the rear cassette smallest tooth cog to largest tooth cog? how many speeds? What is size of chain rings? biggest? smallest? what are your shifters this info will help identify what is needed for the rear derailler
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Old 04-26-22, 09:02 PM
  #40  
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Be prepared for the hanger to break. It's aluminum and it sounds like it's been bent a couple of times already.

One way to assure it will not break is to buy a replacement ahead of time.
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Old 04-27-22, 06:53 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by andrewclaus View Post
Be prepared for the hanger to break. It's aluminum and it sounds like it's been bent a couple of times already.

One way to assure it will not break is to buy a replacement ahead of time.
Does he have a replaceable hanger? It's sort of hard for me to see from the picture.
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Old 04-27-22, 10:00 AM
  #42  
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I've been doing my own bike DIY for over 50 years and have never had the need for a hanger alignment tool. Maybe it's just good luck, or I was about to trash that bike anyway.

But probably your DIY education will be complete when you can look back and wonder why you have a tool box full of expensive tools you don't use very much and realize you will have spent way less money letting the bike shop deal with certain issues.
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Old 04-27-22, 10:05 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
But probably your DIY education will be complete when you can look back and wonder why you have a tool box full of expensive tools you don't use very much and realize you will have spent way less money letting the bike shop deal with certain issues.
I love having a toolbox full of unusual specialty tools--even if they don't get used that often. Just the fact that I have them if I need them is enough for me.
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Old 04-27-22, 12:06 PM
  #44  
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One thing I won't skimp on are rear derailleurs. Well, at least that much.

The cheapest ones are so flexible, I'm not sure they can be properly adjusted.

The newer ones are made with a much more rigid body structure.

I'm not quite sure what I'd choose. It appears as if you have 9-speed on the rear, with pretty large sprockets.

What brand of derailleur/shifters do you have? I believe most are Shimano compatible, except for SRAM or Campagnolo.

For Shimano, you are limited mostly to 8 or 9 speed rear derailleurs (changes in shift ratios for 10 and 11 speed).

My preference for derailleurs would be Deore, XT, XTR, 7000, 8000, 9000, m7000, m8000, m9000 (noting, of course different shift ratios for 10 and 11 speed which can mess up indexing).

I also like the Shimano "Shadow" technology.

When buying a derailleur, you will have the rear sprocket range, to look at (maximum teeth on the rear sprocket), as well a the capacity (rear large-rear small) + (front large-front small).

As noted above, there are three types of derailleur adjustments.

  • high/low stops. This is what keeps your derailleur from over-shifting either into the spokes, or between the last sprocket and the dropouts.
    .
  • Inline adjustment. This helps you maintain indexing. Somewhere along the cable path, allows fine adjustments of cable length.
    .
  • B-Screw or similar. Near where the derailleur bolts to the frame, adjustment that does fine adjustment of how far the derailleur comes to the sprockets. You need to keep it as close as possible to the sprockets through all shift combinations without actually hitting them.
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Old 04-27-22, 01:33 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by juntjoo View Post
How else would I do it?? I don't a pair of 30lb pliers. Is there a special tool or method for this? It'd be a shame to have to trash the whole bike for this little part
A derailleur is adjust using a hanger alignment gauge and is done by a professional, it is not something you want to try at home with no knowledge of how to use it.

Park Tool, EVT Shimano, Abbey all make excellent hanger alignment tools and yes they do cost money but they are a very important tool and should not be taken lightly. If you don't want to spend that money which is fine find your local shop and they can help out with it which will save you a lot of money and time and while you are there if you have a replaceable hanger I would pick up a second one and have it on hand.

In terms of replacing a derailleur tourney is always going to be a poor replacement it is the bottom of the barrel in terms of Shimano and while they have different variants of it they are all of low quality and not really designed for holding tune and being reliable, OK for a short term usage bike or maybe a light use kids bike but that is about it.
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Old 04-27-22, 01:58 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
A derailleur is adjust using a hanger alignment gauge and is done by a professional, it is not something you want to try at home with no knowledge of how to use it.
Well, it's not the Large Hadron Collider or the Space Shuttle. I'm sure most folks here without Ph.D.s could figure out how to use it, and get their hangers back very close to spec.
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Old 04-27-22, 04:10 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
A derailleur is adjust using a hanger alignment gauge and is done by a professional, it is not something you want to try at home with no knowledge of how to use it.

Park Tool, EVT Shimano, Abbey all make excellent hanger alignment tools and yes they do cost money but they are a very important tool and should not be taken lightly. If you don't want to spend that money which is fine find your local shop and they can help out with it which will save you a lot of money and time and while you are there if you have a replaceable hanger I would pick up a second one and have it on hand...
You can get a perfectly serviceable alignment tool like the one suggested above for far less than the excellent shop-quality tools you mention. I got one for about $20 from an EBay seller a while ago and have aligned several bikes in my family (of course.... when I bought it I checked every single bike in the garage1). I wouldn't use one like this if I were a pro, but it will serve me well for the occasional checking and tweaking I will need to use it for.

These tools are very easy to understand and use, especially with simple online video instructions. For example if Park has a video on how to use their tool (haven't checked), it would be useful to see how to use any cheap alignment tool.

The one additional suggestion I would make is - if you can - get a spare derailleur hanger for your bike. When you straighten it, it might break (that's the way they're designed). Even if it doesn't, it's nice to have a spare for if/when you might need it.

Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
Well, it's not the Large Hadron Collider or the Space Shuttle. I'm sure most folks here without Ph.D.s could figure out how to use it, and get their hangers back very close to spec.
+1
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Old 04-27-22, 05:53 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
A derailleur is adjust using a hanger alignment gauge and is done by a professional, it is not something you want to try at home with no knowledge of how to use it..
There is enough information in this thread alone on how to satisfactorily align a hanger with and without a gauge. Or 5 minutes on you tube.
Sometimes I think "Professionals" are a bit too full of themselves.
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Old 04-27-22, 06:56 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by juntjoo View Post
anyone have any tips on bending the dropout back? I've hoisted up a bench vice one a stool and maneuvered on but what a PITA.
If your bike has indexed shifting, as do most bikes sold inthe last 30 years or so, Flintstone alignment with a bench vise and a stool isn't likely to be precise enough. There are special tools to properly align dropouts to get indexed shifting to work. Any decent bike shop can do it, or you can buy one for ~$30-50.
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Old 04-27-22, 09:41 PM
  #50  
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Just gotta pipe in... Don't forget to check the Dish on your rear wheel before doing anything else...
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