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Spoke Length Assistance

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Spoke Length Assistance

Old 06-10-22, 10:05 PM
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katsup
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Spoke Length Assistance

I've fixed spokes and replaced rims before, but I have been thinking about building up my first set of wheels. As this is my first time selecting spoke length and rim, I'd like some additional eyes on my research.

Hubs = Deore XT M765 Disc
Rims = Ryde Edge M 22 OS 700c - https://www.ryde.nl/edge-m-22-os/
Spokes = Sapim D-Light - https://www.sapim.be/spokes/butted/d-light Was originally looking at the Laser spokes, but it suggests experienced wheel builders.
Nipples = Sapim Polyax Brass Nipple 2 mm (12mm or 14mm Length)

I have entered the numbers into two online calculators and this is what I get for length on the rear
https://www.prowheelbuilder.com/spokelengthcalculator

Is this all I need to do to get the correct lengths? What concerns me is that when I use Sapim's spoke calculator, it asks me for rim thickness and I'm not sure what number to enter
https://www.sapim.be/spoke-calculator

Thanks in advance for double checking my research.

Edit: If my numbers are correct for the rear, is it bad to just buy the 32 spokes at 286mm length?

Last edited by katsup; 06-10-22 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 06-10-22, 10:57 PM
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What a great link. Thanks. It certainly looks like your dead on. When I use tables and sites like this I have been humbled a few times. But ya know... When it all works out its Happy Happy, Joy Joy...
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Old 06-10-22, 11:13 PM
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You can double check the calculations using this: https://kstoerz.com/freespoke/

If you want a stronger wheel you want the DS spokes to reach the head of the nipple to avoid nipple breakage, probably it is a good idea to round them 1mm up rather than down.

Sheldon Brown (actually John Allen) recommends thicker spokes for the DS of a dished wheel - you can go with Strong on the DS. The reason is to make the relative stretch similar on the DS and the NDS and avoid detensioning of the spokes on the NDS under the load (detensioning can lead to fatigue and breakage as well as loosening of the nipples).
Never mind, the rim has offset drilling, which corrects the tension imbalance to some degree.

Rim thickness: the calculator I mentioned uses ERD (effective rim diameter) and explains how to measure it, but you need to have the rim on hand. It also computes the tension ratio.
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Old 06-10-22, 11:30 PM
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I entered these numbers (including offset value from ryde.nl) into the calculator, the tension ratio is still 100:77 - you can use Force (also has stronger elbow) (or DT Swiss Alpine III) on the DS and D-Light on the NDS.


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Old 06-11-22, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by csport View Post
I entered these numbers (including offset value from ryde.nl) into the calculator, the tension ratio is still 100:77 - you can use Force (also has stronger elbow) (or DT Swiss Alpine III) on the DS and D-Light on the NDS.
Thank you for all this. I feel more confident that I am ordering the correct length.

I have thought about using thicker drive side spokes, and there are a lot of opinions on both ways. However, I think I decided to use the same gauge spoke on both the DS and NDS. From what I can tell from Sapim's site, the elbow on both Laser and D Light are 2.0mm.
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Old 06-11-22, 12:09 AM
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I would do 3 cross and a 1.8mm spoke for the rear DS.
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Old 06-11-22, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by katsup View Post
Thank you for all this. I feel more confident that I am ordering the correct length.
This computation is only as accurate as the ERD is. Karl Stoerzinger whose calculator I used has an article on this, you can measure your rim and check the ERD to be sure.

Originally Posted by katsup View Post
I have thought about using thicker drive side spokes, and there are a lot of opinions on both ways. However, I think I decided to use the same gauge spoke on both the DS and NDS. From what I can tell from Sapim's site, the elbow on both Laser and D Light are 2.0mm.
I was mentioning Force which is 2.2/1.8/2.0, not saying that you have to use it Or D-Light on the DS, Laser on the NDS

Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
I would do 3 cross and a 1.8mm spoke for the rear DS.
The OP has a Fog Cutter, it is illegal to do 2 cross with it, you need a Double Cross for that.
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Old 06-11-22, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by csport View Post
The OP has a Fog Cutter, it is illegal to do 2 cross with it, you need a Double Cross for that.


I have a bit of time before I'm ordering, I'll think about whether 2 or 3 cross.
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Old 06-11-22, 10:49 PM
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32 spokes laced 2x make for a less strong wheel compared to lacing 3x.

This is my spoke-length calculator of choice:
https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/

(if using that one, make sure to click on the "Help" tab to see what is measured and how exactly)

For the rear hub with a cassette, make sure that the NDS side spokes are at least 1 (to 2) mm shorter than the DS side spokes.
It will help you get the wheel dish correctly, without risking having either NDS, or DS side spokes having less than complete thread engagement.

If you can afford the swagged spokes, I'd go with those (2.2 - 1.8 - 2.0, or 2.0 - 1.8 - 2.0) for both the DS and the NDS.
Having said that, it surely makes sense to use thinner spokes on the NDS, but with modern double-walled relatively strong rims, and only 32 spokes, I prefer the extra durability of the swagged spokes on both sides, while it's still possible to get a sufficient NDS spoke tension to prevent them from loosening.

Relja
(hoping this has helped more than it has confused)
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